Pink Floyd Thread

[liamcool]

I've always loved the ending of Dogs. So epic. Although, and this is a fail on my part, I always thought it was Gilmour singing it.


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It's a really subtle and very well done changeover of vocalists - on the studio version, everything before the synth break is Gilmour and everything after is Waters, whereas live Waters only sang the final verse.

(The Wikipedia article goes into an almost obsessive level of detail about how that song was put together. It's neat.)

I've come across the remasters on Spotify and listening to other tracks now, like Raving & Drooling and You Gotta Be Crazy, which turned into Sheep and Dogs respectively. They're both great but did improve when finally released, in particular lyrically. Also Dogs doesn't feature Gilmour rapping, which is a positive.

Sorry, Gilmour rapping? Hahaha, fuck. Now I have to go and check out those remasters!

Also, the ending to Sheep contrasts from Dogs in such an effective manner - it's such an obvious, cliche guitar line, but it works so well in the context of that song. Triumphant in the best way.

(...even though it's lyrically just as bleak as Dogs or Pigs.)

 

[LemonMelon]

Hearing Animals for the first time was the precise moment when Gilmour became one of my favorite guitarists of all time. The material is great, but his guitar heroics elevate it intensely. He carries that record and doesn't even have to.

I feel the same way about Steve Howe and a number of Yes records. Fragile and Close to the Edge are amazing by all accounts, but Howe's guitar work is fucking incredible and rewards close attention. Every run is captivating in its own way.

 

[cobl04]

 

[LemonMelon]

Now that's a face in dire need of a punch.

Anyway, thewallanalysis.com is a fun read.

 

[namkcuR]

Does anyone else not rank The Wall that highly in the PF catalog? There's at least five records I'd rank above it. I think it has a number of great tracks but that it is longer than its concept and narrative requires.

Also, if I were to put myself into one of the camps that Floyd fans often do, I'd be what you'd call a 'Gilmour guy' - as with Travis, Gilmour is one of my favorite guitarists, one of my top three ever, actually - and I feel like his brand of majestic, epic, sprawling playing, such a huge part of what made Floyd Floyd, is much too absent from The Wall, which is obviously a Waters-dominant work. Off the top of my head, I can't think of a track on the record on which Gilmour really sounds like Gilmour other than Comfortably Numb, which is of course a classic. In The Flesh, Hey You, Goodbye Blue Sky, and Another Brick In The Wall are also tracks that I love, but they're cut from a different cloth than the aforementioned track.

AMLOR and Division Bell aren't perfect, but I think, overall, I'd rather have Gilmour doing what he does best without Roger's more incisive songwriting and emphasis on concept than the other way around.

They are, of course, at their best when working together, as in everything from AHM through Animals.




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[cobl04]

They were pretty fractious around the time of Animals, though, I'm pretty sure.

But yes I rank The Wall last of what I've heard. Still great, but the music is at times overshadowed as Waters and Ezrin's story takes the precedence.


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[LemonMelon]

The Wall is an admirable, angsty and mostly very listenable experience. There are a LOT of people that dislike it, but I'm firmly in the camp of "very good, but they've done better." It's lacking balance between the bile of Waters and the melodic warmth of Gilmour, as you alluded.

Meddle, Dark Side, Wish You Were Here and Animals I would all rank over The Wall. If someone put Piper ahead of it as well, I wouldn't protest. The Wall's staggering highs and impressive structure set it ahead of the rest.

 

[namkcuR]

They were pretty fractious around the time of Animals, though, I'm pretty sure.

But yes I rank The Wall last of what I've heard. Still great, but the music is at times overshadowed as Waters and Ezrin's story takes the precedence.


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Oh, I'm sure they were already having problems during Animals, but just in terms of creative contributions, I think they were still fairly equal. The Wall and The Final Cut are often thought of as Waters solo records, but I was surprised to see some people(not here, elsewhere) saying that Animals was also in that category, because that makes no sense to me. Gilmour's presence on that record is orders of magnitude greater than on the subsequent two records.


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[namkcuR]

The Wall is an admirable, angsty and mostly very listenable experience. There are a LOT of people that dislike it, but I'm firmly in the camp of "very good, but they've done better." It's lacking balance between the bile of Waters and the melodic warmth of Gilmour, as you alluded.

Meddle, Dark Side, Wish You Were Here and Animals I would all rank over The Wall. If someone put Piper ahead of it as well, I wouldn't protest. The Wall's staggering highs and impressive structure set it ahead of the rest.

I agree that those four are over it, but I think I'd also take Atom Heart Mother(the suite is polarizing but it's one of my favorite Floyd tracks) over it and maybe even one of the two post-Waters records.


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[Axver]

The Wall and The Final Cut are the two worst PF albums.

 

[LemonMelon]

I have a soft spot for AHM but it's just a notch lesser. The title track has its uninteresting sections and If is far too long for what it is. Summer '68 is fucking incredible.

AMLOR is easily the worst PF album. When I heard Dogs of War for the first time, I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

 

[namkcuR]

I have a soft spot for AHM but it's just a notch lesser. The title track has its uninteresting sections and If is far too long for what it is. Summer '68 is fucking incredible.

AMLOR is easily the worst PF album. When I heard Dogs of War for the first time, I couldn't believe what I was hearing.

It's inconsistent but On The Turning Away is incredible and Learning To Fly and Sorrow are good as well. But OTTA is worth the price of the album for me and single-handedly lifts it above The Final Cut.

And the only uninteresting part of AHM(the track) for me is the section where it's just random noises. They could've cut that three minutes out and not lost anything. I had the same thought about If being two minutes too long when I was listening to it earlier today.


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[liamcool]

The Wall suffers from very serious double album syndrome.

Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast is tremendous.

 

[cobl04]

Oh, I'm sure they were already having problems during Animals, but just in terms of creative contributions, I think they were still fairly equal. The Wall and The Final Cut are often thought of as Waters solo records, but I was surprised to see some people(not here, elsewhere) saying that Animals was also in that category, because that makes no sense to me. Gilmour's presence on that record is orders of magnitude greater than on the subsequent two records.


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Yes.

I like Wright more than Waters too.

 

[LemonMelon]

I love Rick Wright. I need to listen to one of his solo records.

Any Colour You Like
It Would Be So Nice
Paint Box
Remember a Day
See-Saw
Stay
Summer '68

 

[Axver]

"Summer '68" is the best Pink Floyd song.

I think Liam agrees.

(OK I'm quite willing to entertain a case for "Sorrow" as best. But one of those two.)

 

[LemonMelon]

Just listened to a Rick Wright solo album, his debut album Wet Dream (your move, Laz).

It's worth hearing for the first side, which is great and functions as a missing link between Obscured By Clouds and Dark Side of the Moon. The second half I'd rather aimless and inconsistent both in terms of tone and quality. Holiday is just terrible and Funky Deux sounds like a really shitty Royal Scam leftover. Overall, a decent record and worth a listen if you're a fan (I found it on YouTube in full), but disappointingly frontloaded.

 

[liamcool]

"Summer '68" is the best Pink Floyd song.

I think Liam agrees.

(OK I'm quite willing to entertain a case for "Sorrow" as best. But one of those two.)

I do. Summer '68 is tremendous - Wright's best work ever, a really great display of the Floyd being emotional, and just genius songwriting. This one's got melodies, folks.

That said, I could entertain a case for at least one song from every one of their albums. Sorrow happens to be one of those songs.

 

[MrPryck2U]

Oh, I'm sure they were already having problems during Animals, but just in terms of creative contributions, I think they were still fairly equal. The Wall and The Final Cut are often thought of as Waters solo records, but I was surprised to see some people(not here, elsewhere) saying that Animals was also in that category, because that makes no sense to me. Gilmour's presence on that record is orders of magnitude greater than on the subsequent two records.

From what I've read, PF were starting to have problems during the making of Wish You Were Here and relations worsened during Animals. I've always been a Gilmour fan, but the group was obviously at their best with Roger. A lot has been said about The Final Cut. I haven't heard the album since the 90's. If tensions weren't so dreadful in the band at the time, it could have been a lot better. David has admitted that he was a bit lazy on that one in regard to putting in the creative work, but felt that The Wall's discards shouldn't have been brought back for The Final Cut arguing that "if they weren't good enough for The Wall, what makes them better now?". For many baby boomers (especially Europeans), The Final Cut resonated with them because they had lost fathers in World War II and could relate to the album's themes.

The Wall isn't my favorite PF album, but it ranks at #4 for me. I actually saw the movie before I heard the album in its entirety. Listening to the whole album was like watching the movie for me. There will never be another band like PF. There were other progressive rock bands from their era, but they stood out from the rest. I would put Rush in their own special category because they were unique and extraordinary artists as well, but they got along a lot better. Even though Roger was long gone from the group by the time I became a fan, the music he created is still an essential part of the soundtrack of my young adulthood and beyond.

 

[cobl04]

I still maintain to this day that, had Rick Wright not passed away, and was healthy and well, we would have got a nearly-full-scale PF reunion (ie world tour, not new music).

 

[iron yuppie]

The Wall and The Final Cut are the two worst PF albums.

I'm sorry, I know opinions are opinions and all, but I can't imagine any scenario or interpretation where Momentary Lapse or Division Bell are superior to The Wall or The Final Cut. I know it's fashionable around here to shit on any Waters-centric albums, but Jesus Christ, MLoR and Division Bell are so vapid lyrically and unfocused musically to place them beneath any Floyd album but Ummagumma. Both of those would have been better served as instrumental albums a la The Endless River than anything else. I challenge anyone to sit down and simply read the lyrics to Division Bell in particular without wincing innumerable times.

And Atom Heart Mother better than The Wall? 2/3 of AHM's runtime is pure wankery. A guy actually reads the ingredients of his breakfast. It's amusing and shit but it's little more than a curio in the scope of their wider catalogue. That period between Saucerful and AHM had some serious growing pains for the band.

 

[MrPryck2U]

I still maintain to this day that, had Rick Wright not passed away, and was healthy and well, we would have got a nearly-full-scale PF reunion (ie world tour, not new music).

They might have had a show here or there, but I don't think they would have had a reunion tour. I don't think they could have tolerated each other long enough to accomplish that.

 

[iron yuppie]

Just listened to a Rick Wright solo album, his debut album Wet Dream (your move, Laz).

It's worth hearing for the first side, which is great and functions as a missing link between Obscured By Clouds and Dark Side of the Moon. The second half I'd rather aimless and inconsistent both in terms of tone and quality. Holiday is just terrible and Funky Deux sounds like a really shitty Royal Scam leftover. Overall, a decent record and worth a listen if you're a fan (I found it on YouTube in full), but disappointingly frontloaded.

Broken China from the mid-90s is a good album - it has a lot of the ambiance Wright brought to later Floyd records.

 

[cobl04]

I'm sorry, I know opinions are opinions and all, but I can't imagine any scenario or interpretation where Momentary Lapse or Division Bell are superior to The Wall or The Final Cut. I know it's fashionable around here to shit on any Waters-centric albums, but Jesus Christ, MLoR and Division Bell are so vapid lyrically and unfocused musically to place them beneath any Floyd album but Ummagumma. Both of those would have been better served as instrumental albums a la The Endless River than anything else. I challenge anyone to sit down and simply read the lyrics to Division Bell in particular without wincing innumerable times.

And Atom Heart Mother better than The Wall? 2/3 of AHM's runtime is pure wankery. A guy actually reads the ingredients of his breakfast. It's amusing and shit but it's little more than a curio in the scope of their wider catalogue. That period between Saucerful and AHM had some serious growing pains for the band.

I haven't heard those two non-Waters albums but one could quite easily make the case that their some of their earlier work was pretty vapid/stupid lyrically as well. If anyone wrote a concept album based on an Orwell novel today they'd be laughed out of town. /devilsadvocate

 

[gump]

Alright, I will check Pink Floyd's whole catalogue and post my thoughts here. Not sure I'm really looking forward to it, as I generally consider them as a Super Serious Band that doesn't allow for much fun, but we'll see.

I've started with The Piper at the Gates of Dawn. Holly molly, that's a quintessential late-1960s record. The psychedelia-influenced sound is not something I really expected from Pink Floyd, but I guess Tomorrow Never Knows was still fresh in their mind. The Beatles influences are all over the place, and I wasn't surprised to read that it was produced by a Beatles sound engineer. I like the playfulness in it, which seems to contradict my Super Serious statement above (The Gnome comes to mind here). Overall, I liked the sound, but nothing in particular stuck out with me. Interstellar Overdrive was good, and you can see the early steps towards the epic sound they developed later on.

A Saucerful of Secrets is next.

 

[liamcool]

In regards to vapid lyrics and Roger Waters, I present an example.

I am just a new boy,
Stranger in this town.
Where are all the good times?
Who's gonna show this stranger around?
Ooooh, I need a dirty woman.
Ooooh, I need a dirty girl.

Will some cold woman in this desert land
Make me feel like a real man?
Take this rock and roll refugee
Oooh, baby set me free.

Ooooh, I need a dirty woman.
Ooooh, I need a dirty girl.

Also, The Final Cut is actually quite good. It's not really impressive on a musical basis, but lyrically it's brilliant, and unlike a lot of their music, which can be described as detached, the subject matter of this album is so personal that it lends it a certain authenticity that isn't present elsewhere in their catalogue.

 

[liamcool]

Alright, I will check Pink Floyd's whole catalogue and post my thoughts here. Not sure I'm really looking forward to it, as I generally consider them as a Super Serious Band that doesn't allow for much fun, but we'll see.

Looking forward to it. I think that reputation of Super Serious Band isn't really deserved until Wish You Were Here or so - prior to Dark Side of the Moon/being massively commercially successful they were always willing to put at least one absurd thing on every album as a breather.

 

[LemonMelon]

I haven't heard those two non-Waters albums but one could quite easily make the case that their some of their earlier work was pretty vapid/stupid lyrically as well. If anyone wrote a concept album based on an Orwell novel today they'd be laughed out of town. /devilsadvocate

At least the storytelling on silly tracks like The Scarecrow and The Gnome is vivid and memorable, with characters and settings. And then there's some actually really nice poetry scattered around in there, some of it quite revelatory.

It's awfully considerate of you to think of me here
And I'm much obliged to you for making it clear
That I'm not here.
And I never knew we could be so thick
And I never knew the moon could be so blue
And I'm grateful that you threw away my old shoes
And brought me here instead dressed in red
And I'm wondering who could be writing this song.

I don't care if the sun don't shine
And I don't care if nothing is mine
And I don't care if I'm nervous with you
I'll do my loving in the winter.

And the sea isn't green
And I love the queen
And what exactly is a dream
And what exactly is a joke.

Compare that to overwrought garbage like this:

I will, I will she sighed to my request
And then she tossed her mane while my resolve was put to the test
Then drowned in desire, our souls on fire
I lead the way to the funeral pyre
And without a thought of the consequence
I gave in to my decadence

One slip, and down the hole we fall
It seems to take no time at all
A momentary lapse of reason
That binds a life for life
A small regret, you won't forget,
There'll be no sleep in here tonight

and

Dogs of war and men of hate
With no cause, we don't discriminate
Discovery is to be disowned
Our currency is flesh and bone
Hell opened up and put on sale
Gather 'round and haggle
For hard cash, we will lie and deceive
Even our masters don't know the web we weave

 

[liamcool]

Oh, I'm sure they were already having problems during Animals, but just in terms of creative contributions, I think they were still fairly equal. The Wall and The Final Cut are often thought of as Waters solo records, but I was surprised to see some people(not here, elsewhere) saying that Animals was also in that category, because that makes no sense to me. Gilmour's presence on that record is orders of magnitude greater than on the subsequent two records.


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Just to get back to this really quick; Waters has sole writing credit on four of Animals' five tracks, Dogs being the only song with a Gilmour writing credit. Interestingly, the structure of the album was originally meant to be a bit different - Pigs on the Wing was meant to be one track (as seen through the 8-track version, which has a guitar solo in the middle of the two parts) and Dogs was meant to be two tracks. The decision was made, I believe mostly by Waters, to split PotW and keep Dogs as a single track, partially because they had already split the longest track of an album on Wish You Were Here, and partially to minimise Gilmour's writing credits on Animals.

Gilmour wasn't pleased, to say the least. That might be why he's never really played Animals material live after the In The Flesh tour?

To figure out what members actually contributed to the writing of those songs is pretty difficult - for a band to write songs by jamming in a rehearsal studio as a band, but only credit the writing of the song on the album to one member of the band is a strange thing. Maybe Waters came in with a riff and a lyric and they just wrote around it, maybe they came up with a section collaboratively and then Waters took sole credit because by that point he was writing all of the lyrics. Who knows.

 

[cobl04]

I like Lucifer Sam. That cat's got something I can't explaaaaaaaaaaiiiinnnn