Kanye West discussion - Page 22 - U2 Feedback

Go Back   U2 Feedback > Lypton Village > Lemonade Stand > Just the Bang and the Clatter
Click Here to Login
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
 
Old 11-06-2013, 08:28 AM   #421
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,674
Local Time: 12:24 AM
Lighten up, gabe. He's trying to have a discussion.
__________________

Diemen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 08:31 AM   #422
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Imperor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 9,045
Local Time: 11:24 PM
Worth keeping in mind the Cobbs is not from North America and therefore likely has a different understanding of the Civil War that those of us who grew up with it taught in history class.
__________________

Imperor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 09:41 AM   #423
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Philadelphia
Posts: 19,218
Local Time: 01:24 AM
And that America puts way more stock in the symbolism of flags than ... any other country.
PhilsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 10:02 AM   #424
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Imperor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 9,045
Local Time: 11:24 PM
Speaking as a Southerner, I don't equate that flag with slavery right off the bat. It's not the number one connotation for me. If Yeezy wants to co-opt the image, more power to him. I totally understand where the association between the two is, but I think calling it a racist symbol is a bit shortsighted. A lot of people look at it as a point of pride in differentiating their lifestyle from that of the Northeast. Doesn't necessarily mean they want to own black people in 2013.

I should clarify that while there are elements of the South I love dearly, I don't identify myself with it or (by extension) the confederate flag. Just trying to play devil's advocate here.
Imperor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 10:48 AM   #425
More 5G Than Man
 
LemonMelon's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: Hollywoo
Posts: 68,642
Local Time: 10:24 PM
Kanye considers himself an influential individual and wants to turn a negative into a positive by taking a racially inflammatory symbol and placing it in a new context. He already did it with Klan imagery months ago, it's not exactly surprising that he's putting the Confederate flag on tour merchandise.

Misguided, stupid, insane, whatever; one of Yeezus' themes was supposedly the experience of the black male in 2013 in contrast to the past (pretty evident in New Slaves, BOTL) and now he's taking imagery like this and trying to update it. In the grand scheme of the album's promotional cycle, it makes a lot of sense, even if it looks ridiculous out of context.
LemonMelon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 10:56 AM   #426
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Imperor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 9,045
Local Time: 11:24 PM
Well said.
Imperor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 11:10 AM   #427
Ghost of Love
 
gvox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In The Ballroom of The Crystal Lights
Posts: 19,901
Local Time: 01:24 AM
Right, and an even greater number of people think it's patently offensive.

Which is also likely why I've never tattoo'd multiple swastikas all over my body, even though I've had dreams where an old man with a white beard and long flowing white garments came to me and told me it was my duty to reclaim it as a positive symbol.
gvox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 11:25 AM   #428
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Philadelphia
Posts: 19,218
Local Time: 01:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gvox View Post
Right, and an even greater number of people think it's patently offensive.

Which is also likely why I've never tattoo'd multiple swastikas all over my body, even though I've had dreams where an old man with a white beard and long flowing white garments came to me and told me it was my duty to reclaim it as a positive symbol.
This isn't the same thing, though.
PhilsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 11:29 AM   #429
Rock n' Roll Doggie
FOB
 
Imperor's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Austin
Posts: 9,045
Local Time: 11:24 PM
That so many people get off on being offended is one of the worst things about our culture.
Imperor is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 11:39 AM   #430
Ghost of Love
 
gvox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In The Ballroom of The Crystal Lights
Posts: 19,901
Local Time: 01:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
This isn't the same thing, though.
You're right: the swastika, unlike the Confederate flag, has actual legitimate historical uses that have positive meanings.
gvox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 11:45 AM   #431
Ghost of Love
 
gvox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In The Ballroom of The Crystal Lights
Posts: 19,901
Local Time: 01:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Imperor View Post
That so many people get off on being offended is one of the worst things about our culture.
I'll tell you what else is one of the worst things about our culture: revisionist bs like 'it's just a symbol of our wish to live a different lifestyle than the north'.

No. That is false. It's a symbol of the Confederacy, the major purpose of which was to defend the "right" to own slaves, treat black people as inferior, prevent other states from harboring runaway slaves, and continue slavery right on into the 20th century had they been permitted.

And if you've forgotten that, maybe re-read your respective state's Declaration on the Immediate Causes of Secession (or related title, as applicable)
gvox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 12:19 PM   #432
Blue Crack Addict
 
phanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: in the darkness on the edge of town
Posts: 26,079
Local Time: 01:24 AM
Do you always have to be so abrasive when it comes to a normal discussion?
phanan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 12:26 PM   #433
Ghost of Love
 
gvox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In The Ballroom of The Crystal Lights
Posts: 19,901
Local Time: 01:24 AM
You mean a discussion in which you aren't even participating?
gvox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 01:14 PM   #434
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Philadelphia
Posts: 19,218
Local Time: 01:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gvox View Post
You're right: the swastika, unlike the Confederate flag, has actual legitimate historical uses that have positive meanings.
Are you intentionally being obtuse?
PhilsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 01:18 PM   #435
Blue Crack Addict
 
phanan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: in the darkness on the edge of town
Posts: 26,079
Local Time: 01:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gvox View Post
You mean a discussion in which you aren't even participating?
It was a general observation.

Thanks for confirming.
phanan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 01:19 PM   #436
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator
 
Diemen's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,674
Local Time: 12:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by phanan View Post
Do you always have to be so abrasive when it comes to a normal discussion?
Quote:
Originally Posted by gvox View Post
You mean a discussion in which you aren't even participating?
So, yes then?

Seriously, Gabe, back off the trigger a little.
Diemen is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 01:30 PM   #437
Ghost of Love
 
gvox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In The Ballroom of The Crystal Lights
Posts: 19,901
Local Time: 01:24 AM
I didn't attack anyone here. I spoke vociferously in denouncement of revisionist ideas. Phanan's involvement was nothing more than an over generalized attack of my character which was neither called for, nor did it add anything relevant to the discussion, as he himself notes:

Quote:
Originally Posted by phanan View Post
It was a general observation.

Thanks for confirming.
If Phanan is so regularly offended by my posting style, my understanding is he can exercise the right we all have, to make use of the ignore button.
gvox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 01:32 PM   #438
Ghost of Love
 
gvox's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: In The Ballroom of The Crystal Lights
Posts: 19,901
Local Time: 01:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by PhilsFan View Post
Are you intentionally being obtuse?
No, are you?

Or maybe you can enlighten me on what legitimately positive historical connotation the Confederate flag has, much less in a discussion remotely related to race relations?
gvox is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 01:43 PM   #439
Blue Crack Addict
 
PhilsFan's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: South Philadelphia
Posts: 19,218
Local Time: 01:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by gvox View Post
No, are you? Or maybe you can enlighten me on what legitimately positive historical connotation the Confederate flag has, much less in a discussion remotely related to race relations?
Enlighten me on how a guy from Toronto is more qualified than a guy from Texas to discuss how the Confederate flag is viewed in the south. You are awfully dismissive of Impy's post when it would seem that someone from the south would have a much better grasp on symbolism than you. We're not talking foreign policy where anyone from anywhere is on equal footing if they are well read. This is a more subjective topic. You are not treating it as such.
PhilsFan is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-06-2013, 01:47 PM   #440
Blue Crack Supplier
 
lazarus's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Los Angeles, California
Posts: 41,668
Local Time: 10:24 PM
Insufferable, as usual.
__________________

lazarus is online now   Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
kanye west

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off



All times are GMT -5. The time now is 12:24 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 1
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
Design, images and all things inclusive copyright © Interference.com
×