B&C Best of 2017 - Discussion Thread

[Axver]

Mate no-one cares about our Strayan music.

 

[Mack_Again]

wasn't Alex Cameron Australian?

 

[Axver]

Ugh.

It's like there's a couple of token Aussie artists the rest of the world gives a shit about, and then everything else is a "yeah nah".

 

[Mack_Again]

i loved Alex' duet with Angel Olsen

 

[LemonMelon]

Alex Cameron's album was awesome IMO

 

[Axver]

I haven't listened to it, and after reading this I don't want to (plus, toxic masculinity aside, Client Liaison and Kirin J. Callinan fucking suck anyway): Alex Cameron, Kirin J Callinan And "Ironic" Toxic Masculinity

Whatever you make of that article, it's a breath of fresh air here because of the way Callinan in particular is lauded as some sort of genius.

 

[GirlsAloudFan]

I went through Pitchfork's top 100 songs of the year and counted out the ones I'd actually heard and it was 17 out of 100. Not sure what that means, but I thought I'd let you guys know. Thanks.

 

[cobl04]

Ugh.

It's like there's a couple of token Aussie artists the rest of the world gives a shit about, and then everything else is a "yeah nah".

Yeah totally agree. And I'm sitting here fucking laughing because Australia has probably put out better music than any other country this year, but it just gets ignored. This has been the biggest year for Aussie music in a long time if you ask me (and I know there's then a million artists not on my radar that are on yours).

 

[HeartlandGirl]

I went through Pitchfork's top 100 songs of the year and counted out the ones I'd actually heard and it was 17 out of 100. Not sure what that means, but I thought I'd let you guys know. Thanks.

I didn't count, but I hardly recognized any of them either. One review did catch my eye, so I decided to check out the song. And they were right. "Drink I'm Sippin On" by Yaeji is my new jam. If anyone here might like her style, it would be Coblr.

 

[LemonMelon]

Pitchfork's albums list is slightly better than the songs list, but eh:

https://pitchfork.com/features/lists-and-guides/the-50-best-albums-of-2017/

No points for guessing what #1 is.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

I thought their albums list was a great representation of what went on this year. There weren't any real curveballs on it though, so it's clear that the general critical community hasn't just become Pitchfork-ed...they've ALL just kind of melted into the same blur. But that's fine. I'll take what are generally regarded as the 50 best albums over a list just trying to be contrary.

But god, their song list is absolutely woeful. Just chock full of the worst R&B/rap garbage ever. #1 isn't even a remotely good song but just included as the top choice because of its commercial success and to make a political statement. But this isn't anything new. Their 2010-2014 songs list was also full of the most execrable rap music I've ever heard.

It's just strange. Like their writers can totally see a worthy album better than anyone else (it's rare they give an 8.0 or higher to something that wasn't worth my time), but they'll just hype up any half-assed rap thing as brilliant as we're essentially bombarded with four minutes of predictable beats and lyrics.

 

[Axver]

Holy fuck that Pitchfork list is bad.

Yeah totally agree. And I'm sitting here fucking laughing because Australia has probably put out better music than any other country this year, but it just gets ignored. This has been the biggest year for Aussie music in a long time if you ask me (and I know there's then a million artists not on my radar that are on yours).

We'd definitely point to different artists, but I think this year's been pretty good for Aussie music too.

But the country that has really punched above its own weight this year is New Zealand. One of the best years for Kiwi music in a long time. And I know all you B&C people dismiss my shit out of hand, but seriously, the following artists would all be B&C-core if they weren't from New Zealand: Fazerdaze, Mermaidens, Nadia Reid, Yumi Zouma, and Aldous Harding. I don't know why the rest of you people aren't listening to them.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

It's simple for me: it's barely music. It's spoken word/poetry, and would be better off as either a collection of short stories or spoken word. It's extremely affecting, and perhaps the saddest thing ever committed to tape, but it's barely music.

Your statement on Mount Eerie is basically how I feel about rap music where the music isn't all that interesting. Like if you don't have the warped sonic creations of Kanye West or something similar (who doesn't love Outkast?) going on in the background, it's just someone talking over a repetitive drumbeat.

I honestly love some of the all-time great rap albums, own them, consider them to be the best of their respective decades, etc. But most of that stuff is like listening to a podcast to me. Bor-ing.

You should check out some of the Microphones/Mount Eerie older stuff. It's nothing like this year's record. BTW, I randomly was at Mount Eerie a few months back. Truly gorgeous place.

 

[LemonMelon]

I'll take what are generally regarded as the 50 best albums over a list just trying to be contrary.

Depends on the publication. A hypebeast rag like Pitchfork, sure, but if The Quietus or TinyMixTapes ever started churning out lists like this, I would be disappointed. Not because I love those sites but because the contrarian lists are a good place for discovery.

Yumi Zouma

I like these guys a lot, but that album sounded like elevator music at a two story Urban Outfitters. Nowhere near as engaging to me as the EPs.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

. And I know all you B&C people dismiss my shit out of hand, but seriously, the following artists would all be B&C-core if they weren't from New Zealand: Fazerdaze, Mermaidens, Nadia Reid, Yumi Zouma, and Aldous Harding. I don't know why the rest of you people aren't listening to them.

I love your lists because to American fans of indie music and the like, tape label acts here are literally better known than any of these acts you post about. I do agree that you have to wonder if the rest of the music media hasn't fairly delved into these sort of scenes at all especially with people like Courtney Barnett and the like emerging from there.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

Depends on the publication. A hypebeast rag like Pitchfork, sure, but if The Quietus or TinyMixTapes ever started churning out lists like this, I would be disappointed. Not because I love those sites but because the contrarian lists are a good place for discovery.

Certainly true. I mean, it's a self fufilling prophecy that Pitchfork's own albums lists have become boring as hell when everyone else is basically doing something similar taste-wise. And it doesn't help that Pitchfork likes to get the last word in by posting their album lists literally last which I think works against them.

Also, I've listened to the Best New Tracks feature religously ever since they started it and there's rarely a non-rap stinker in the mix, etc. Yet the songs list this year just seemed to disregard half that stuff in favor of rap/R&B tracks that didn't even earn that designation. And it's pretty much been that way for the last few years now. What frustrates me more about it isn't me "not getting it" because it's fine if I don't. What's frustrating is that I could honestly swap these songs with some other random derivative R&B/rap songs and nobody would really be able to tell the difference.

Also, hot take. Kendrick really isn't much of an MC whatsoever. His musical creations are usually pretty creative and his lyrics very insightful. But he is just not that skilled of a rapper. Listening to his voice is just annoying because I could just replace it with hundreds of other rappers and wouldn't really effect the quality of the song. I mean, it would make for a better listen then having to hear Kendrick grunt for four minutes.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

Also, most people aren't like myself or music critics and listen to basically any genre, etc. Pitchfork can put all the pop, R&B and rap songs they want on their music lists, but the fact is that the vast majority of their listeners just really want stuff in the indie rock vein. They'll stretch out to electronic acts and Bjork and the top hip hop stuff like Kanye or Kendrick, but they really don't actually bother listening to most of these hip hop records or would really sit down and listen to Charli XCX or The Pipettes or whatever other pop stuff has earned acclaim from Pitchfork over the years. Pitchfork broadening its reach and looking for the best stuff across genres was the smartest move they could have done, but it hasn't totally trickled down to its readers just yet.

 

[Axver]

I like these guys a lot, but that album sounded like elevator music at a two story Urban Outfitters. Nowhere near as engaging to me as the EPs.

Eh. The second EP is the best thing they've done, but that shouldn't take away from how well crafted their two albums are. The new one's got some pretty good tracks on it.

I mean, fuck me, this forum likes yacht rock, you can't call Yumi Zouma elevator music.

I love your lists because to American fans of indie music and the like, tape label acts here are literally better known than any of these acts you post about. I do agree that you have to wonder if the rest of the music media hasn't fairly delved into these sort of scenes at all especially with people like Courtney Barnett and the like emerging from there.

Funny you mention Courtney Barnett, because I kind of respect her but if you want podcasts put to music that's her. I can't really listen to her stuff if I'm doing anything else because it's really distracting, like somebody trying to talk to me.

I'd put her in the "token Aussie doing well overseas" category, along with fucking Tame Impala. And do people now care about King Gizzard? Sigh. Why can't we export our good acts, like Ali Barter, who has way more to say. She might not be the most feminist voice in Australian music, but she's the most assertive of those who have managed to engage listeners beyond the underground. And she's certainly taking advantage of her position very nicely. She's wonderful.

(I suppose there's also Camp Cope, whose crossover success has blown me away, but... I don't know, they're all really nice people, but again the music's too chatty like a podcast.)

 

[LemonMelon]

I want to listen to this Gang of Youths album so Cobbler will stop crying about it but nearly 80 minutes?? Come on now.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

God, the Cardi B at #1 song for Pitchfork choice really is horrendous the more I think about it. Like their review goes into the importance of our political climate and how it's great that a woman of color has a #1 hit and the first to do so with a rap song in 20 years, etc...but what does that have to with the song? Nothing. It's literally a basic, low-IQer rant track indistinguishable from anything else. And by assigning it accolades merely because of its popularity, they're almost acting like it's a breakthrough. It's a breakthrough only in terms of commercial success. It's not like black female rappers weren't on the scene before that or anyone was stopping them from recording music. It's an absolute joke of a selection.

 

[BigMacPhisto]

Export more of this, Axver:

 

[LemonMelon]

God, the Cardi B at #1 song for Pitchfork choice really is horrendous the more I think about it. Like their review goes into the importance of our political climate and how it's great that a woman of color has a #1 hit and the first to do so with a rap song in 20 years, etc...but what does that have to with the song? Nothing. It's literally a basic, low-IQer rant track indistinguishable from anything else. And by assigning it accolades merely because of its popularity, they're almost acting like it's a breakthrough. It's a breakthrough only in terms of commercial success. It's not like black female rappers weren't on the scene before that or anyone was stopping them from recording music. It's an absolute joke of a selection.

In ten years, no one will remember this song. It doesn't have staying power and its success was tied entirely to a specific place and time. If anyone looks back on this list, the response will be "Kendrick lost to what?"

The same goes for most of these generic Soundcloud fillers that Pitchfork desperately co-sign in their crusade to become a mirror for Complex in case that site's servers ever take a hit.

 

[cobl04]

I want to listen to this Gang of Youths album so Cobbler will stop crying about it but nearly 80 minutes?? Come on now.

It's WAAAAAYYYY too long, like at least 20 minutes too long, and several songs either outstay their welcome or don't need to be there, but I think the amount of good stuff on it is pretty fucking remarkable. It's huge here, and there's about six or seven songs on it that are currently considered the defining song on the album.

 

[cobl04]

Man, BigMacPhisto is gonna be really pissed off when he finds out Bernie likes Run the Jewels. Either that or he deletes his account and starts a new one that's completely pro-hip-hop.

 

[cobl04]

Why can't we export our good acts, like Ali Barter, who has way more to say. She might not be the most feminist voice in Australian music, but she's the most assertive of those who have managed to engage listeners beyond the underground. And she's certainly taking advantage of her position very nicely. She's wonderful.

That record is a great example of why I need to change my listening habits somehow. It's so so so good and yet I just haven't been reaching for it. I wish it was on permanent rotation but it just isn't.

Absolute belter of a record and yeah, I wish it was getting more attention too. And another example of a record that would be one of B&C's top picks of the year if she was American or British.

 

[Axver]

Export more of this, Axver:

Alex Lahey is OK, but she hasn't excited me all that much.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

I haven't listened to it, and after reading this I don't want to (plus, toxic masculinity aside, Client Liaison and Kirin J. Callinan fucking suck anyway): Alex Cameron, Kirin J Callinan And "Ironic" Toxic Masculinity

Whatever you make of that article, it's a breath of fresh air here because of the way Callinan in particular is lauded as some sort of genius.

I think about this article often. It's the perfect rebuttal to anything those blokes do. Callinan is particularly repulsive, and it's not surprising that he's from Sydney's northern beaches.

I want to listen to this Gang of Youths album so Cobbler will stop crying about it but nearly 80 minutes?? Come on now.

On paper I should enjoy them, but I find them okay listening at best and very grating at worst. They try a bit hard with some of their song titles too. Sorry Cobbs, they don't do much for me.

 

[Axver]

I think about this article often. It's the perfect rebuttal to anything those blokes do. Callinan is particularly repulsive, and it's not surprising that he's from Sydney's northern beaches.

It's really annoying because Callinan was not always a huge prick. I first saw him six years ago as lead guitarist in Jack Ladder's backing band The Dreamlanders (who I were convinced were called the Dream Ladders); he was a very good guitarist, and he would dress up in all kinds of garb, but it just seemed to be the sort of quirky thing a really confident Melbourne musician would do, you know? I might have also seen him in Lost Animal; I couldn't tell you if he was in the band at the time I saw them, though if he was he didn't mark himself out. And even when I saw him play solo the first time, at Laneway after his first solo album came out, he was memorable if not likeable - but not shit.

In the time since then, he's been lauded increasingly, and that seems to have driven him to behave in increasingly stupid ways. His new album is awful, his support sets before Crowded House last year sucked, and his behaviour needs to be censured, not laughed off as "oh look at Kirin satirising something". The fact he got out his junk at the ARIAs should have got him in way more trouble than it did.

And yet people who should know better keep apologising for him. I don't get it. Yeah sure, he was a promising artist once with bold ideas - but now we've discovered those "bold" ideas are actually shit and he shouldn't be celebrated.

And I just want to end by saying Client Liaison can fuck the fuck off too, because I can't say that enough. They'd vote for the Coalition as a gag.

 

[Axver]

Oh, and Cobbler's favourite muso Donny Benét shouldn't go under the radar here either. He's part of that same toxic "irony" bullshit that Callinan and Client Liaison are. Hell, he was even playing bass for Callinan last year!

 

[HeartlandGirl]

I'll give Fazerdaze a listen based on their name alone. They also have a song called Jennifer (my real name), so...yeah. Thank you for the recommendation. This American will give some NZ music a shot and report back.