Arcade Fire 2: Arcade Harder

[Lancemc]

I don't actually think our disagreement is around the idea of the 'album' or how we listen to it, but more in our conception of its criticism or how we analyze it. I find a lot of music criticism and the type of criticism that happens on this forum to be kind of revisionist-fantasy, for lack of a better term on the spot. Like, you praise what you dig, but then everything else is "The album should have been this, or they should have done that, or it should be shorter or it could have been this or that." Which the whole length issue is a usual part of. I just don't really play that game. Let me experience the whole work the artist created and respond to it how I will, and I'm happy to discuss what it does and how it does it, what it makes me feel and what I like about it or don't like. And you can talk about the technical achievements and the mix and this and that in the same way or course and so on. But so much of what I read, far more so in music discussion it seems than in any other medium (though it happens in film criticism too, unfortuantely, and it's just as inane then), is "I want it to be this, it would be better if it were that, or it fails because it's XYZ instead of ABC." And yeah, I'm speaking in terms too general, that a lot of that does factor in to good criticism as well, but it's all about context and perspective.

[iron yuppie]

Originally Posted by Lancemc

I don't actually think our disagreement is around the idea of the 'album' or how we listen to it, but more in our conception of its criticism or how we analyze it. I find a lot of music criticism and the type of criticism that happens on this forum to be kind of revisionist-fantasy, for lack of a better term on the spot. Like, you praise what you dig, but then everything else is "The album should have been this, or they should have done that, or it should be shorter or it could have been this or that." Which the whole length issue is a usual part of. I just don't really play that game. Let me experience the whole work the artist created and respond to it how I will, and I'm happy to discuss what it does and how it does it, what it makes me feel and what I like about it or don't like. And you can talk about the technical achievements and the mix and this and that in the same way or course and so on. But so much of what I read, far more so in music discussion it seems than in any other medium (though it happens in film criticism too, unfortuantely, and it's just as inane then), is "I want it to be this, it would be better if it were that, or it fails because it's XYZ instead of ABC." And yeah, I'm speaking in terms too general, that a lot of that does factor in to good criticism as well, but it's all about context and perspective.

This is a very articulate post. I appreciate the sentiment and I think that you make a great point about the purpose of artistic criticism. As a teacher, I tend to evaluate music in much the same way that I evaluate student work: how fully something realizes its potential or fulfills its vision.

In terms of The Suburbs, it seems that Arcade Fire set out to make a stylistically diverse concept album. I think that in order to fulfill that vision, they needed to evoke a certain feeling while still allowing room for interpretation. The lyrical directness to me destroys the interpretive angle and also overshadows the musical nuance of many of the tracks. I think that Butler wanted people to come away from the album re-evaluating their upbringings and their attitudes toward middle-class life, but instead I feel as though I've just eaves-dropped on his therapy sessions.

Arcade Fire is an ambitious band that has positioned itself as intellectually relevant. Owing to that, I think that it's fair to evaluate them based on the intellectual merit of their work. I would never judge an album by someone like Oasis in the same way that I'm looking at The Suburbs.

[Lancemc]

Fair point you raise about lyrical directness of the songs. The album is clearly banking a lot on repetition, both lyrical and musical, themes and variations and so forth and I think it's mostly effective in that regard. Like you said though, perhaps if the writing were a bit more oblique that approach would be more appealing.

[PhilsFan]

All I'll say is that Rococo shouldn't exist. That would heal a lot in this discussion.

[Jive Turkey]

I cant understand the hate for that song

[Lancemc]

Rococo is a good tune.

[MissVelvetDress_75]

Rococo Haters suck.

[U2Fanatic4ever]

Originally Posted by MissVelvetDress_75

Rococo Haters suck.

[phanan]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

I cant understand the hate for that song

Neither can I. The chorus could obviously be better, but other than that it's quite good.

[u2popmofo]

I like it as well. It was on the radio this morning on my way to work.

[bono_212]

It's just the chorus for me. A million times the chorus.

[PhilsFan]

It's not interesting musically, which puts more focus on the lyrics, which are completely shit. And yeah, that chorus.

[bono_212]

It's beautiful musically. That's why I hate that chorus SO much.

[MissVelvetDress_75]

Originally Posted by u2popmofo

I like it as well. It was on the radio this morning on my way to work.

[BoMac]

Originally Posted by bono_212

It's beautiful musically. That's why I hate that chorus SO much.

I agree that's it's great musically, and the chorus leaves a lot to be desired. But I feel that in a live setting, this song works very well.

[U2Fanatic4ever]

Originally Posted by BoMac

I agree that's it's great musically, and the chorus leaves a lot to be desired. But I feel that in a live setting, this song works very well.

yeah that is what I said in a previous post that live this song is so much better than on the album..

[u2popmofo]

Oddly, I'm often annoyed by songs where one word or phrase are repeated numerous times. For some reason it doesn't bother me in this one, but I guess I can relate to people who don't like it for that reason.

[nielsgov]

I do love ah-ah-ahaah's... after the chorus

[joyfulgirl]

I no longer have an issue with any song on the whole record. It flows really well and it's just playing over and over in my car. I still don't care about the suburbs as a topic and therefore am not really paying much attention to the lyrics at all beyond being good songs to sing along with in the car. The repetition of "rococo" is still sort of annoying although I like the song otherwise, and the high point is when I can shout out "When I"m by myself I can be myself and my life is coming but I don't know when..." (maybe because I can relate to that).

[No spoken words]

I actually am interested in the lyrics, more or less because I've never lived in a suburb or anything close in my life. Not to say that Win Butler's take on it is the definitive glimpse at suburban life, but it's still interesting to me to read/hear about a slice of life that's fairly foreign to me.