U2 90s/Darker music..interesting quotes

[U2isthebest]

As I've mentioned, I've been reading a lot of Brennan Manning's work lately (The Ragamuffin Gospel and Abba's Child) both are 2 of the best books I've ever read. Both of them have had at least one thought in them that I feel represents what U2 might have been thinking when choosing to go in a seemingly "darker" direction in the 90s music and even on some of the darker songs on "JT" and "UF". I know the boys have read at least some of Manning's work, because it was mentioned in an article I posted in a different thread. I don't mean to say the concepts were influenced by Manning. However, as I read more of his works, I'm struck by how similar the boys live out their faith to the way he describes a truly "grace-full" Christian in his books.

The first quote is from 'Abba's Child'- "Those who stop short of evil in themselves will never know what love is about."

The second quote is from 'The Ragamuffin Gospel'- "...The men and women who are truly filled with light are those who have gazed deeply into the darkness of their imperfect existence."

To me, I see how by allowing themselves to explore this side of their own lives and that of those around them, has allowed them to be able to talk about transcendent Love, Grace, and Peace as they have with everything from ATYCLB, to this amazing new song "Window In The Skies". I know a lot of Believers in the 90s did not understand what U2 was doing at the time and abandoned them. Being as I recently became a fan, and can now step back from the time and see the whole picture, I cannot understand how one might misinterpret the works. However, I was not there at the time, so I won't try to go any further. I've read similar responses on this mindset on other threads here and other sites. What are your thoughts on this taking into account the quotes I posted?

 

[redhotswami]

Hmm, very good point! I can't remember the source, but I do remember reading more than once Bono speaking of accepting his imperfections as part of himself. It is quite a big thing, to accept who you are, faults and strengths.

I too have learned to embrace my contradictions. They make me who I am. I wouldn't be Mia without them, you know?

It reminds me of a similar quote, from John Paul II's "Crossing the threshold of hope", where he says that "Man is holy, even in his own weakness." It is through our weaknesses that we find ourselves seeking God. Which is why, like you, I am puzzled as to how many people misinterpreted that in the 90s. Haha, nothing says surrender like saying "wow, look at how much I suck! I'm not perfect!!!" When we don't explore the "evil within" so to speak, we aren't being truly humble, and admitting that we need love in our lives.

What are some lyrics from the 90s music that you see portray this the best? I gotta go get my CD, I can't think of them off the top of my head!

 

[U2isthebest]

I could not agree with you more Mia! You would LOVE Brennan Manning's work! He talks a lot about contemplative prayer too. Get thee to a book store young lady! And I'm going to be thinking about my fav. 90s lyrics and get back to you (here) on those.

 

[redhotswami]

yes ma'am!!! i will next payday. i tried to get "whats so amazing about grace" but it wasn't there. i may have to go to the library for these.

 

[pattip2000]

(The Ragamuffin Gospel and Abba's Child) both are 2 of the best books I've ever read.

 

[U2isthebest]

Hmm..I'll start with "Achtung" and go from there.

"You say love is a temple, love the higher law, love is a temple, love the higher law. You ask me to enter, but than you make me crawl; and I can't be holding on to what you've got when all you've got is hurt."-One

all the lyrics to UTEOTW, The Fly (so spiritually grounded, it's beyond me how some people miss it), "Acrobat" (quite obvious! LOL) and Love Is Blindness (In "U2 by U2" Bono talks about how it was about more than the end of a relationship)

You're dangerous, 'cause you're honest You're dangerous - you don't know what you want Well, you left my heart empty as a vacant lot For any spirit to haunt.-Who's Gonna Ride Your Wild Horses

And I have no compass And I have no map And I have no reasons No reasons to get back And I have no religion
And I don't know what's what And I don't know the limit
The limit of what we got -Zooropa

"A man dreams of leaving but he always stays behind. AND "Midnight is where the day begins"-Lemon

"A vampire or a victim, it depends on who's around"-Stay

all the lyrics to "The First Time" (again, showing the transition from the 90s to now....adding "only Grace can get it back for me" to many "Vertigo" performances.)

I don't know you - and you don't know the half of it
I had a starring role - I was the bad guy who walked out They said be careful where you aim Because where you aim you just might hit You can hold onto something so tight You've already lost it -Dirty Day

"They say they want the Kingdom, but they don't want God in it. AND "I went out in search of experience To taste and to touch and to feel as much as a man can before he repents."-The Wanderer

"You know you're chewing bubble gum, You know what that is, but you still want some, you just can't get enough of that lovey-dovey stuff." AND "Looking for the one but you're somewhere else instead. I want to be the song, be the song that you hear in your head." AND "You take what you can get, because it's all that you can find, you know there's something more tonight,"-Discotheque

"Looking for to save my, save my soul, looking in the places where no flowers grow, looking for to fill that God-shaped hole." AND "still looking for the face I had before the world was made."- Mofo

I'm not the only one staring at the sun Afraid of what you'd find if you took a look inside Not just deaf and dumb - staring at the sun Not the only one who's happy to go blind-Staring At The Sun

"What you thought was Freedom is just Greed."-Gone


Your Catholic blues - your convent shoes Your stick-on tattoos - now they're making the news Your holy war - your northern star
Your sermon on the mount from the boot of your car." AND "Please, Get up off your knees, please."- Please

There's more, those stick out the most for me.

 

[U2isthebest]

yes ma'am!!! i will next payday. i tried to get "whats so amazing about grace" but it wasn't there. i may have to go to the library for these.

You can get used copies of any of them from Amazon that are like new for extremely cheap prices.

 

[drdre12]

U2isthebest...how wonderful you decided to read Abba's Child! I'm so glad that is speaking to you! I am thumbing through Ragamuffin Gospel again and I am truely amazed by God's Grace all over again. Yea!

 

[U2isthebest]

U2isthebest...how wonderful you decided to read Abba's Child! I'm so glad that is speaking to you! I am thumbing through Ragamuffin Gospel again and I am truely amazed by God's Grace all over again. Yea!

I've read "Ragamuffin" twice already. It's amazing! "Abba's Child" is just as wonderful! I just ordered "The Signature of Jesus" off Amazon on Sunday. Call me Brittany by the way, it's nice to meet you!

 

[redhotswami]

So...noone's read Crossing the Threshold of Hope then? How come I'm always reading stuff noone else reads.

 

[mandrake]

"The Fly (so spiritually grounded, it's beyond me how some people miss it)"

I'm interested in hear this explanation, this is my favorite "loud" U2 song.

 

[U2isthebest]

"The Fly (so spiritually grounded, it's beyond me how some people miss it)"

I'm interested in hear this explanation, this is my favorite "loud" U2 song.

It's definitely a loud one, and I love it for that! It's in my top 5! I posted my explanation on a different website, so I'll just rehash it here.
If you read the lyrics in the first verse, "It's no secret that the stars are falling from the sky, it's no secret that our world is in darkness tonight" is a reference to a Biblical passage in the book of Revelations that talks of a time "the stars will far from the sky and the moon will turn red" referring to the return of Christ. Our world is still a sinful one, according to what Believers, well believe, until this happens, hence "our world is in darkness tonight." As for your question "the universe exploded because of one man's lie" refers to Adam's sin in the Garden of Eden that The Bible talks about in the book of Genesis. You're likely familar with the story of Adam and Eve, and how they ate the apple of the tree God told them not to. When they did they hid from God and Adam lied, sin entered the world according to the Bible and Adam and Eve were kicked out of the Garden and forced to pay (and the rest of human kind to follow) for these sins that could only be taken away by an eventual Birth, Death, and Resurrection of Christ, according to The Bible. Hence, "the universe exploded because of one man's lie" It's very similar to a passage in the Bible that says "For if by the sin of one man death reigned through that one man.... through the disobedience of one man the many were made sinners." Romans 7:17 and 19. Obviously, one can interpret the lyrics any way they choose, but that is most likely what Bono had in mind when he wrote it.

 

[U2isthebest]

Another great quote from "Ragamuffin". As those of you that have read Manning's work might know, he became an alcoholic because he still fel pressures of guilt and shame and a lack of understanding of Grace. When he went to AA his spiritual told him something that has freed him from then on.
"Brennan, quit trying to look and sound like a saint. It will be a lot easier on everybody."
Perhaps U2 (particularly Bono, Edge, and Larry) said something similar to themselves when entering their new era in the 90s. Thoughts?

 

[mandrake]

I like that interpretation of the Fly. I read something like that in One Step Closer, but it only touched on the surface of that song.

I see the meaning behind the 90s era as something about mocking what is bad in the world as a way to show how silly consumerism (PopMart) or the information age is (ZooTV, which was way ahead of it's time even without the Internet).

If you watch ZooTV Sydney on the Fly there is a text that flies by that says "Mock the devil and the devil will flee from thee". Bono has also been quoted saying this. I think that sums it all up.

 

[U2isthebest]

I like that interpretation of the Fly. I read something like that in One Step Closer, but it only touched on the surface of that song.

I see the meaning behind the 90s era as something about mocking what is bad in the world as a way to show how silly consumerism (PopMart) or the information age is (ZooTV, which was way ahead of it's time even without the Internet).

If you watch ZooTV Sydney on the Fly there is a text that flies by that says "Mock the devil and the devil will flee from thee". Bono has also been quoted saying this. I think that sums it all up.

Exactly! He got that philosophy from "The Screwtape Letters" , I believe. I love that book!

 

[redhotswami]

Exactly! He got that philosophy from "The Screwtape Letters" , I believe. I love that book!

yay! a book that i've read!

 

[U2isthebest]

yay! a book that i've read!

*high-fives*

 

[JCOSTER]

Once you start reading books that he has read and some of the poets he is fond of, you can see alot of what he had read has come through in his lyric writing.

I had just finished the Picture of Dorian Grey, and I had realized that Bono had taken some thoughts even from this book.

He is a college course in himself.

 

[Jeannieco]

Bono is so facinating isn't he?

I think that U2 was mis-read by a lot of passive fans in the 90's who didn't get where they were coming from. Looking back we can see the clues ALL over the place...practically hitting the auidience over the head, but the 90's were such an interesting time for music artists because the business of making music stilled allowed some sort of distance and mystery between them and the fans. Bono said in an interview that with the advent of technology, artists have to be out there today in every way shape and form otherwise, out of sight, out of mind. They started doing more revealing interviews if you notice around ATYCLB and Bono talked more openly about his faith, and lifted the shroud of mystery that always surrounded them back in the 80's. At least it was that way for me. I was never quite sure where they were coming from because I remember Bono purposely evading the "Christian" discussion during serveral interviews, leaving me scratching my head. Which was cool, I still accepted them and LOVED them, but what he/they did was brilliant. The mystery added to the intrigue of who U2 are. LOVE IT! Now I am captivated by how open Bono is with the faith questions even though he is taking major flack from people. that makes me love him more because he doesn't care! Did anybody else notice this, about him being more open now than in the 80s'?

 

[JCOSTER]

^oh yes big time, it was only then did he actually say he was a believer.

 

[U2isthebest]

Another amazing statement from Manning talking about what the world is looking for in Christians....sounds like the boys to me!

"This is what the world wants from our rhetoric,....someone daring enough to be different, humble enough to make mistakes, wild enough to be burned in the fire of love ohmy: ), real enough to make others see how phony we are." Thoughts?

 

[Jeannieco]

Another amazing statement from Manning talking about what the world is looking for in Christians....sounds like the boys to me!

"This is what the world wants from our rhetoric,....someone daring enough to be different, humble enough to make mistakes, wild enough to be burned in the fire of love ohmy: ), real enough to make others see how phony we are." Thoughts?

That sounds like Bono in action!

 

[rihannsu]

^oh yes big time, it was only then did he actually say he was a believer.

I know I'm a bit late commenting on this but if you go back to the early 80's interviews there were several where Bono said he was a believer but talked about how scary it was when they got to the US and saw all the TV Evangelists and heard how stereotyped Christianity was. They never denied believing but would tell journalists that they felt it was something that should be talked about one on one and not through the media because they saw how misrepresented it could be. Also they were actively avoiding being labeled as a Christian Band. Bono said in many interviews that he believed in God but not necessarily in Religion as look what Religion had done to Ireland.

What I found most interesting in reading old interviews is that the secular press was actually much more accepting of their Christianity than the Christian press. Also where most artists who even mentioned God to the secular media would mostly get ripped apart and sneered at Bono seemed to be able to totally difuse that. The secular press did not ridicule their faith but the Christian press very oftened tore them to shreds.

Steve Stockman talks about how Christian Radio refuses to play U2 but will play covers of U2 songs by Christian artists. I am curious to know if that is changing at all now that Bono has been more accepted by Christians due to the campaigning for Africa.

Dana

 

[U2isthebest]

I know I'm a bit late commenting on this but if you go back to the early 80's interviews there were several where Bono said he was a believer but talked about how scary it was when they got to the US and saw all the TV Evangelists and heard how stereotyped Christianity was. They never denied believing but would tell journalists that they felt it was something that should be talked about one on one and not through the media because they saw how misrepresented it could be. Also they were actively avoiding being labeled as a Christian Band. Bono said in many interviews that he believed in God but not necessarily in Religion as look what Religion had done to Ireland.

What I found most interesting in reading old interviews is that the secular press was actually much more accepting of their Christianity than the Christian press. Also where most artists who even mentioned God to the secular media would mostly get ripped apart and sneered at Bono seemed to be able to totally difuse that. The secular press did not ridicule their faith but the Christian press very oftened tore them to shreds.

Steve Stockman talks about how Christian Radio refuses to play U2 but will play covers of U2 songs by Christian artists. I am curious to know if that is changing at all now that Bono has been more accepted by Christians due to the campaigning for Africa.

Dana

I know that he has mentioned how proud of them he is for helping so much more with the AIDS poverty emergency. I think as he comes into more contact with Believers, they can see his heart for people and his deep love for Jesus. Reading articles sometimes though, I still feel like a lot of the Christian press is hesitant to believe that Bono is a "real" Christian,for reasons I don't understand.

 

[rihannsu]

I know that he has mentioned how proud of them he is for helping so much more with the AIDS poverty emergency. I think as he comes into more contact with Believers, they can see his heart for people and his deep love for Jesus. Reading articles sometimes though, I still feel like a lot of the Christian press is hesitant to believe that Bono is a "real" Christian,for reasons I don't understand.

I ran across an article not long ago where an individual who attended a rescreening of Bono's interview with Bill Hybels for the Willow Creek Leadership conference talked about overhearing one pastor commenting to another that he went into the presentation wondering if Bono was really a Christian and came out wondering if he himself was.

I am glad however that Bono never feels the need to try to "prove" himself to anyone. As he toured through America on the Heart of America tour I am sure many who attended those events went mainly to pass judgement on Bono but he went to work and by not engaging in an effort to prove his worthiness they had to focus on his message. I've waited years and years for a Christian leader to emerge who would wake up the church to what they should be focusing on, I just never thought that person would be a rock star. I know calling him a Christian leader might seems strange but when you look at the last few years he has in a way been leading the church leaders at least in new directions.

Dana

 

[U2isthebest]

I ran across an article not long ago where an individual who attended a rescreening of Bono's interview with Bill Hybels for the Willow Creek Leadership conference talked about overhearing one pastor commenting to another that he went into the presentation wondering if Bono was really a Christian and came out wondering if he himself was.

I am glad however that Bono never feels the need to try to "prove" himself to anyone. As he toured through America on the Heart of America tour I am sure many who attended those events went mainly to pass judgement on Bono but he went to work and by not engaging in an effort to prove his worthiness they had to focus on his message. I've waited years and years for a Christian leader to emerge who would wake up the church to what they should be focusing on, I just never thought that person would be a rock star. I know calling him a Christian leader might seems strange but when you look at the last few years he has in a way been leading the church leaders at least in new directions.

Dana

I could not agree more Dana!! I love what you mentioned about that pastor, btw. And your whole post is ironic, especially the part about Bono not needing to prove himself. I was just reading "The Ragamuffin Gospel", again, and a line that stuck with me went something along the lines of "The kingdom belongs to those who are not trying to be anybody but themselves, who do not seek to impress others..." I left the book with a family member, but I'll be getting it back tomorrow, so I'll have the exact quote then.

 

[U2isthebest]

The exact quote from "Ragamuffin" that I mentioned above is: "The kingdom belongs to people who aren't trying to look good or impress anybody, even themselves. They are not plotting how they can call attention to themselves, worrying about how their actions will be interpreted or wondering if they will get gold stars for their behavior."

 

[The Disciple]

My 2 favorite books: What's So Amazing About Grace by Phillip Yancey and The Ragamuffin Gospel by Brennan Manning. There is a VISUAL version out there with pictures that recently came out that is AMAZING.

 

[U2isthebest]

My 2 favorite books: What's So Amazing About Grace by Phillip Yancey and The Ragamuffin Gospel by Brennan Manning. There is a VISUAL version out there with pictures that recently came out that is AMAZING.

I saw that in the Family Christian Store. I'm debating picking it up. It frickin' rocks!!