The Church's Commitment (or Lack of) to Fighting the AIDS Pandemic

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Jamila

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Here is a very interesting article posted for World AIDS Day by Cathy Falsani, Religion writer for the Chicago Sun-Times, and an avid supporter of Bono's and DATA's efforts to stop the AIDS pandemic and extreme poverty in Africa:

http://www.suntimes.com/output/falsani/cst-nws-fals03.html

I think that there is actually a bigger issue here.

Not only is there still a hesistancy to pick up these struggles in the Evangelical churches, but in the Church overall, whether liberal or conservative, Black or white, mainstream or unconventional.

The question is: WHY?

If the New Testament has 2103 references to our responsibilities to take care of the needs of the poor, the homeless, the orphaned, the sick - then why aren't our churches (ALL DENOMINATIONS) picking up the struggle against AIDS and extreme poverty in our world?

And are we doing all that we can within our churches, temples, mosques, etc to keep our religious organizations' feet to the fire on this one?

Like Bono says, history will judge us harsely on what we do or don't do on Global AIDS and extreme poverty, but God will "judge" us harsher.

IT'S NOT WHAT YOU'RE DREAMING, IT'S WHAT YOU'RE GONNA DO....:angel:
 
The only reason I can think of is that AIDS is linked to sexual behaviour and the Church has always had a big hangup with sex and how to do the whole "remove the speck from your eye before you get the log out of your neighbor's eye". (And I am speaking for myself as well in that global "church") In my experience, many Christians just cannot get beyond the mentality that if you have AIDS, it is somehow your fault and that if they reach out to help, they are condoning immorality. I know that this was the mindset I grew up with living in a conservative Evangelical community. So I really believe that until we can put on the mind of Christ and see people as people, loved and created by God as the children of God, that they need help and love regardless of what we think of what they may have done or not done, I think the Church will continue to neglect the AIDS crisis.
 
Beautiful thought, sulawesigirl4, and I think you're (unfortunately) correct.:sad:

And that is the challenge for those of us who care about the lives that are being lost and the countries that are slowly being destroyed by AIDS and extreme poverty - to continue to outreach to religious groups and to continue to put them to task to LIVE UP TO THEIR THEOLOGY by putting aside their judgments of others and simply do all they can to help save lives.

I appreciate comments and thoughts on this issue - the biggest moral issue of our day.:yes:

And I wish you well in your activities in Mali - a magnificent and ancient place.

YOU SPEAK OF SIGNS AND WONDERS BUT I NEED SOMETHING OTHER....:angel:
 
'Feed The Children", "Compassion International", "World Vision", etc., etc., etc...

What do all of these have in common? 2 things:

1)They care for and feed the hungry children of the world

2)They, like other organizations too numerous to mention, are Christian organizations, run by Christians, and probably most of the donations come from Christians.

Like I said in another thread, I admire and respect Bono, but I think he's wrong to slam the church for the perceived "failure" to give to the AIDS crisis.

I think his support for the AIDS crisis is wonderful, and I am sure it is God's will for his life. But why do people automatically assume that it is God's will for everyone to get involved in that? Why is the AIDS cause more important than feeding hungry children, or fighting breast cancer, or lung cancer, or cerebral palsy research (my personal favorite), or any charitable work, for that matter?

How can Bono judge the church while night shelters and missions (many, if not most, run by Christians) feed, clothe and shelter the homeless? Or while Christian missionaries by the hundreds of thousands put their own lives on hold and even on the line to help irrigate the land, build houses, grow crops for hungry people in 3rd World nations? Many of these missionaries are killed while doing this work.

That's not to mention the millions of dollars the church brings in every year for charities.
 
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sulawesigirl4 said:
The only reason I can think of is that AIDS is linked to sexual behaviour and the Church has always had a big hangup with sex and how to do the whole "remove the speck from your eye before you get the log out of your neighbor's eye". (And I am speaking for myself as well in that global "church") In my experience, many Christians just cannot get beyond the mentality that if you have AIDS, it is somehow your fault and that if they reach out to help, they are condoning immorality. I know that this was the mindset I grew up with living in a conservative Evangelical community. So I really believe that until we can put on the mind of Christ and see people as people, loved and created by God as the children of God, that they need help and love regardless of what we think of what they may have done or not done, I think the Church will continue to neglect the AIDS crisis.
:applaud:

miss you Sula!
 
In my experience, many Christians just cannot get beyond the mentality that if you have AIDS, it is somehow your fault and that if they reach out to help, they are condoning immorality

it' not about how much money christian organizations are giving for me. It's about politics of the church and it's actions and I dont know how you can preach "love your neighbour" and then turn your back on those who need you most.

It's the most important lesson the catholic church taught me you know to translate our everyday lives and what we do into love,you know love your neighbour, regardless if they be the person beside you or across a continent ...and we will all be blessed for it
.
But I hate to paint everyone in the "church" with the same brush because you have great people Archibishop Desmond Tutu and many many others doing right by this.
 
Katey said:


it' not about how much money christian organizations are giving for me. It's about politics of the church and it's actions and I dont know how you can preach "love your neighbour" and then turn your back on those who need you most.

What I don't know is how anyone can say the church doesn't help those who need it most.
 
80sU2isBest said:


What I don't know is how anyone can say the church doesn't help those who need it most.

In some ways I agree with you 80sU2isBest. The church has lead the way throughout history in caring for those who are powerless. I think of the schools, hospitals, civil rights etc. that we take for granted today in developed countries. Many of these things have been a direct result of the things that Christians have done in the past to care for those in need. (eg. sunday school in 18th Century England was the forerunner of public education as we know it today)

However when you look at some of the excesses of the church in the west today you have to say there is a glaring problem. We have become very good at creating lavish church buildings while billions suffer in abject poverty without even the most basic of human needs. That is not to say there is not also a lot of good stuff going on that the church IS doing. It is a generalisation but all we can do is generalise. I think all that Bono has tried to do is light a bomb under the church for those who are yet to realize the crisis that is Africa. By the way I read recently a quote by Bono that he felt that things had started to change in the church and that people were waking up to the needs of those poorest of the poor.

So really all of us are only responisble for our own actions; are we doing all in our power to live as someone once said "Love your neighbour as yourself".
 
What I don't know is how anyone can say the church doesn't help those who need it most

The church does help alot of people, but when it comes to HIV/Aids in Africa although I have seen the attitude slowly change, there are still many in the hierachy of the church who still judge . I work for a christian based organization and I had this conversation with a priest who to my dismay...condemed those in Africa with HIV/AIDS, that was very dissapointing to me. So for me growing up in that church and hearing all the time love your neighbour, and today for them to say no we are not going to help, they brought it on themelves..I was dissapointed ya.


And like I said I dont paint them all with the same brush..

So although Christians are and many christian organizations are very involved and committed that is seperate from the church..

from the some of the churches yes it is like pulling teeth, I'd agree it is getting better but there is a bit to go
 
The church has begun a slow change toward looking at those suffering from the effects of HIV/AIDS with more empathy and humanity in the last two years.

That has been due largely because of the admonitions that have come at them from folks like Bono and organizations working in Africa who are daily dealing with the pandemic.

Unfortunately, the church has responded due to the realization that their past lack of SUFFICIENT action on issues of extreme poverty and AIDS CONTRADICTED WITH WHAT THE NEW TESTAMENT SAID and so they have been guilted into action.

Sad that those in organized religious groups need to have a Rock star to lead them in the ways they need to go.:angel:

Thanks for the discussion - please keep it up.

THIS IS THE TIME TO FINISH WHAT YOU STARTED. THIS IS NO TIME TO DREAM....:bono: :heart: :heart: :hug:
 
Jamila said:

Unfortunately, the church has responded due to the realization that their past lack of SUFFICIENT action on issues of extreme poverty

Jamila, the church has been leading the fight against extreme poverty since the church began. There is no failure there.
 
We would differ on that that, my friend.

The church has done some good in fighting poverty, but not enough - according to what the New Testament commands us to do.

We could all come up with a list of wrongs and indifferences that the church is responsible for in regards to the poorest people in the world too, but to debate is not my intention in this thread.

IT IS TO EXAMINE OUR OWN HEARTS AND SOULS TO MAKE SURE WE ARE LIVING UP TO OUR HIGHEST STANDARDS OF CONCERN AND ACTION FOR THE POOR - just like Jesus commanded.

If you and your church are doing their best - be at peace. :wink:
 
Jamila, thank you for this thread. It's an important one. You're absolutely right, we as the body of Christ are not doing nearly enough to address the issue of AIDS/HIV. The church has done MANY MANY good things to help the less fortunate around the world, but it's lacking in its efforts against AIDS -- the biggest threat out there now. Instead of just complaining about that here, why don't we challenge ourselves to raise awareness at our own churches and maybe organize something to help? DATA has some material that is geared toward faith communities — why don't we use it? I admit I haven't done this, but I've wanted to. Now's a good time to start. Is there any way we can hold each other accountable and encourage each other in this?
 
Is the church doing 100% of what it should be doing to fight poverty? No, of course not.

But my whole point is that on the big scale of things, the church has not failed. Probably the majority of the charity organizations were put in place by Christians. The church's dedication to feeding the poor has been very commendable over the two centuries the church has been around.
 
coemgen said:

Is there any way we can hold each other accountable and encourage each other in this?

Very nice post, Coemgen.

To encourage each other is great, but we should not be holding others accountable. Why? Because God lays different things on different people's hearts. That's my whole point - How can we hold others accountable for not acting upon what God has put on our own hearts, as far as charity is concerned? My big thing is Cerebral Palsy. I won't hold you accountable if you don't give to that cause, because I realize God may not have put it on your heart to give to that.
 
I agree with you 80sU2, but it could and should do more with AIDS. Don't you think Christ would agree? Also, the church has been around a lot longer than two centuries. :wink:
 
coemgen said:
I agree with you 80sU2, but it could and should do more with AIDS. Don't you think Christ would agree? Also, the church has been around a lot longer than two centuries. :wink:
Doh - what is wrong with me? I meant two millenia!

I think that every man/woman should do what God has put on his heart. If God puts the AIDS crisis on my heart and I don't do anything about it, then I am sinning.
 
coemgen, thnaks for your input.

Just for clarification, I am involved in my community (including churches and schools) in raising awareness and INVOLVEMENT from those that I speak to on the AIDS pandemic in Africa.

I have been doing this over half a year now with moderate success but more needs to be done. :yes:

I continue to reach people on the AIDS pandemic in Africa because it is the BIGGEST MORAL ISSUE OF OUR TIME - how do we, as people of God, sit back and not put every energy, every effort of ours into saving the lives of millions of people and the futures of MILLIONS OF AIDS ORPHANS who are dying and suffering only because they can't afford the dollar a day to save their lives?:tsk:

As Bono has correctly said - history will judge us harshly but God will "judge" us even more harshly for our "collective yawn" (Bono's words) towards the AIDS pandemic.

Thanks, everyone, for your ideas.:wink:

THE GOAL IS SOUL....:angel:

http://www.worldvision.org

http://www.uccf.org
 
Jamila said:

I continue to reach people on the AIDS pandemic in Africa because it is the BIGGEST MORAL ISSUE OF OUR TIME - how do we, as people of God, sit back and not put every energy, every effort of ours into saving the lives of millions of people and the futures of MILLIONS OF AIDS ORPHANS who are dying and suffering only because they can't afford the dollar a day to save their lives?:tsk:

As Bono has correctly said - history will judge us harshly but God will "judge" us even more harshly for our "collective yawn" (Bono's words) towards the AIDS pandemic.


God will only judge harshly for not doing something about AIDS those whom he has placed on their hearts to do something about AIDS and didn't.

I am glad you are fighting the fight against AIDS. It's great that you are doing what God wants you to. But AIDS is not the only disease and/or problem that threatens people's lives, and as I said before and will continue to say, God doesn't pull the same heart strings for everyone. Some he calls to give to AIDS charities, some he calls to give to cancer, some he calls to help the homeless.

How would Bono like it if I told him that God would judge him harshly for not giving to cerebral palsy charities, or going to the soup line on Christmas to feed the homeless, or getting involved in the meals on wheels program to help feed the elderly, or running a marathon for breast cancer, or giving to Compassion International, or volunteering at the local Crisis Pregnancy Center, or helping out at the local abused women's shelter, or donating money to research autism or heart disease or muscular dystrophy or Parkinson's Disease, etc., etc., etc.?

I reckon he might not like it, and after gently chiding me for judging him unrighteously, he'd probably tell me that God placed the AIDS crisis first and foremost on his heart.

And I'd say "Yes, I know. But why do you think God would place the same thing on everyone's hearts?"
 
The Church could be doing alot more than they are doing now, but then it's important to remember that when it comes down to it, everyone could be doing more.
I went to a Christian conference in April and one of the speakers pieces was on the issue of AIDS. I came out of the conference hall angry and, to be frank, very irate. The man had gone to lengths to praise the work of the Church in the battle of AIDS, and went on to criticise the 'rest of the world' for their ignorance on the issue.
Sure, arseholes like that exist - I appreciate that not all Christians have the same 'closed' views, however, the Church should be doing more to urge the importance of the AIDS situation upon it's followers. I don't think it should fall purely on the shoulders of the Church to fund campaigns, but I know for a fact that in my diocese, it is not something that is prominantly enough presented. Alot of Christians that I have met feel sympathy towards the AIDS epidemic, but will ultimately not go home and think about it again, be this because of apathy, selfishness, forgetfullness, financial difficulty or ignorance. But those Christians who refuse to donate to or support AIDS campaigns because of the issue of adulterous sex are deluded and corrupt, and a Church that choses to adopt this opinion is no Church at all. It is wrong to expect countries who have never seen a book in their lives, yet alone a bible, to understand the concept of Christian morals.
 
I don't want to bag American Christians, but Bono's perception of the Church is influenced by his experiences of American Church. Just the other day, I read a letter from Jesse Duplantis praying believing that 18000 will donate a grand each for a private jet to preach. Thats 18,000,000 dollars. What a waste. In the modern evangelical charismatic churches of today there is more concern for Christianity's image and presentation than substance. WHile I think Bono has a point, condemning the church is not constructive. Bono lacks credibility in the church's eyes, no that he needs the church's approval or anything. When Christians see Bono's peculiar habits :wink: its hard for them to take him seriously. I agree on a gospel in practice, but I believe that setting a an example in deeds and in faith should be combined. Bono is not a moral failure, he's got rough edges for sure, but the obstacle is his habits. They are trivial for sure, but not in the eyes of the church.

:wink: a toast to Bono's sabre - rattling.
 
Shaizari said:
I don't want to bag American Christians, but Bono's perception of the Church is influenced by his experiences of American Church.

And I'm honestly not trying to bag Bono, but Bono is not an American Christian and has spent very little time in the American church, compared to most American Christians. 37 years ago, I was born into the American church. I became a born again Christian when I was 12, so I have been a Christian in the American church for 25 years. I have been a member/attender of several different churches. I am not blind toward the faults I have seen in some of these churches, but I can tell you first hand that the vast majority of Christians I have met in these churches are loving people.

Shaizari said:
In the modern evangelical charismatic churches of today there is more concern for Christianity's image and presentation than substance.

I think SOME modern evangelical churches may have that problem. There's one down the street that may have that problem. However, I think that it is mainly the mega-churches that suffer from this. The "average joe" churches do not. I've been to many "avergae joe" churches and not have that problem.


Shaizari said:
condemning the church is not constructive.

I agree, as you can definitely tell.
 
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Then I guess Jesus was wrong in turning over the money changers" tables in the temple if we should not criticize "the church"?

Often the only way to get human beings to change their errant ways is to "kick" them out of it.

Kick the darkness until it bleeds daylight. - Bono :hug:
 
I'm not a big believer in organized religion of any sorts ..my faith has always been very strong in God and I've tried to live up to the one universal rule "love thy neighbour" I am the furthest thing away from being a good christian.. but what I find in some churches with priests and ministers and bishops etcc etc.. is that that rule sometimes comes with a "unless policy"

unless - they bring it upon themselves through unholy acts,

I dont understand that, where is the grace in that.


I love that Bruce Cockburn part of the song "Kick the Darkness till it bleeds daylight"
 
I dunno. I find myself agreeing with 80sU2IsBest here. Religion is far better equipped to deal with certain issues over others. For better or for worse, I don't think religion is equipped to deal with AIDS. This is something that should be dealt with heavily at the secular and governmental level.

We should be working hard to bring stability to Africa, as I believe that is the biggest problem on that continent. If only we bothered to care about Africa's general lack of sanitation. If only we bothered to care about increasing education, and, likewise, dignified job opportunities. And what about other diseases? Malaria is an increasing problem, because pharmaceutical companies increasingly aren't making the drugs, because it isn't "profitable" enough. Here is something we CAN treat effectively, and it doesn't even register on the radar like AIDS does.

Instead, I believe that much of our attention brought to AIDS in Africa is solely due to Western fears that Africa will infect them. Clearly, when it comes to other issues that affect Africans, we don't put enough attention in. How long, after all, did it take for the West to care about Sudan?

I think we all should take a good hard look at societal priorities, as well as our own.

Melon
 
If the church views AIDS as a spiritual issue I believe it can be of assistance in the fight against AIDS.

The job of CHristians HAS always been spiritual rather than physical, I believe more than anything that AIDS is spiritual. I'm not saying people who have AIDS deserve it. Some bring it on themselves for being irresponsible with their sexual behaviours and ignoring conseuqences, some are unfortunate victims who have caught it because of someone else's transgressions. But the Grace of God does not condemn, but sees the potential and beauty in everything. Love is unconditional, therefore, the Christian must care and love for those who have AIDS regardless.

Its unfortunate that money is allocated in the proper manner as it should. There are reasons for this:

1) As I menionted before, image over substance (and yes, I have read 80su2isbest replies) - megachurches is what I had in mind as well.
2)Some churches DON'T have the financial resources to contribute
3) unintentional ignorance - simply some just don't know about it and some are being fed the wrong information
4) The focus is on serving and ministering to their local communities, there is nothing wrong with that, some are equipped only for local circumstances. The mega churches are not as rich as people suppose, their gross income is large, but their operating expenses consume this...why do you think there is a shameless money grab today.
Think about it. 18,000,000 for a plane.

Which one of you could use 18,000,000 for a better cause.
 
Shaizari said:

2)Some churches DON'T have the financial resources to contribute

No, but all Chruches have the resources to educate their congregations about the AIDS epidemic, and so many choose not to.
If the Church addressed this, then the issue of unintentional ignorance would become obsolete.
 
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I think that when Bono referred to AIDS as the new lepersy it was because people were being outcast because of the disease. It is the only disease I can think of as I write this post that seems to encourage that response. Since Jesus embraced the lepers and healed them we should follow his example. I think some people are hesitant because they think people deserve AIDS (which is terrible.) I also think some are slow to answer the call because they want to address the roots of the problem and halt the spread of the disease in addition to helping those who are currently infected.

As to the "failure" of the American church to help in this situation, I think there is a drastic misconception that the American church is somehow a monolith that thinks and acts the same way.

There are many who are trying to mobilize action. I was at Hume Lake this past fall for their college conference. While there, a World Vision sponsored video was played about our need to help in the fight against AIDS in Africa. I actually was suprised that they didn't play anything from Bono since I think his urgings would have the greatest effect on people my age.

Second, the National Association of Evangelical's recently issued a commentary on civic responsiblity and it advised Christians that fighting Global AIDS wisely was one of them. Christianity Today even ranked it as one of their six areas of urgent concern along with exporting religious freedom, following the roadmap to peace in the Middle East, expanding access to health insurance, taking the "culture of life" to court, and standing up for traditional definitions of marriage. Despite how you may feel about some of these issues, I think we can all agree that if the church devotes itself to fighting AIDS with as much fervor as they do abortion and gay marriage, it would be a major accomplishment.
 
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