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I'm not Catholic, but if I were, I'd appreciate a symbol like that (especially one from the Pope) being treated as it was intended to be.

But among Catholic laity, the Rosary is not strictly used in prayer. For example, how many cars do you see on the road with a rosary hanging down on the windshield? This is a very common Catholic practice, and so I'm not sure that many people would find Bono's usage to be offensive per se.
 
anitram said:
That sounds all lovely in theory but it doesn't function that way in reality, with many, many Protestant denominations.

The Anglican Church (Church of England, Church of Ireland, etc) is essentially like the Catholic Church but minus the guilt, as the saying goes. It is an organized hierarchy of Church (yes, big C) leadership, where God most certainly has not left the building. Furthermore there is also some establishment of a community of saints (see, for example St. George) which very intimately resembles the Catholic ideal. There is very, very little difference between it and the Vatican when you get down to it, and in fact, the Anglican denominations are in practice far more closely related to Roman Catholicism than the Evangelical Protestant denominations of the US.


I agree with a lot of what you've said here but it should be pointed out that there are important theological differences of opinion between Anglicanism and Catholicism. Speaking as a lapsed Catholic the policy of the Anglicans regarding allowing clergy to get married appears to make a lot more sense to me than the strict celibacy requirement of the RCC.
 
where do Episcopalians fall? Is that similar to Church of England? (something to do with Henry VIII right isnt it)

I go to church once a year for Christmas and we go to an Episcopalian cathedral called St Phillips. It's got the stained glass, gorgeous cathedral, hierarchy of deans/bishops/etc, Latin, incense...they're like Catholics minus the homophobia (and really very liberal in every sense compared to the Vatican). Since I don't believe in God and only go once a year, I like that they have the whole spectacle/rituals but a sermon that I can appreciate.
 
Episcopalianism is an Anglican denomination (another name for the Church of England).

We have Episcipalian churches in Scotland which are basically the Church of England by the back door :D

As to the saint thing - I don't know that they are heavily into saints - St George is the Patron Saint of England, just like St Andrew is the Patron saint of Scotland, but they are not honoured in the same way as they are in the Catholic Church.
 
financeguy said:



I agree with a lot of what you've said here but it should be pointed out that there are important theological differences of opinion between Anglicanism and Catholicism.

There are, but I think that theological differences got muddled in the practice of religion somewhere along the way because current day Anglicanism is as far removed from Baptists and other evangelical Protestants as Catholicism is. What the reasons behind that may be, I'm not sure.
 
anitram said:


There are, but I think that theological differences got muddled in the practice of religion somewhere along the way because current day Anglicanism is as far removed from Baptists and other evangelical Protestants as Catholicism is. What the reasons behind that may be, I'm not sure.

The term Protestant covers a very diverse range of denominations.
 
The Fiddler said:


The term Protestant covers a very diverse range of denominations.

Obviously.

I believe the current UN count is something like 27,000+ worldwide.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:


He doesn't wear it the way it was intended to be worn, so I don't think it's meant as an explicitly Catholic symbol, just as a symbol of belief in God in general. Honestly, I don't approve of the way he wears it. I'm not Catholic, but if I were, I'd appreciate a symbol like that (especially one from the Pope) being treated as it was intended to be. I don't want to say he's disrespectful, b/c that implies intent, but I can't think of a better word....



:up:
 
anitram said:


That sounds all lovely in theory but it doesn't function that way in reality, with many, many Protestant denominations.

The Anglican Church (Church of England, Church of Ireland, etc) is essentially like the Catholic Church but minus the guilt, as the saying goes. It is an organized hierarchy of Church (yes, big C) leadership, where God most certainly has not left the building. Furthermore there is also some establishment of a community of saints (see, for example St. George) which very intimately resembles the Catholic ideal. There is very, very little difference between it and the Vatican when you get down to it, and in fact, the Anglican denominations are in practice far more closely related to Roman Catholicism than the Evangelical Protestant denominations of the US.

True. I can't say anything against that since I know little about the Anglican church (it's probably the denomination I know the least about).

Basically, my point was that if you're trying to determine whether Bono is Catholic or Protestant, in the most general sense of those words, there isn't anything he's written or said that explicitly points one way or the other. Personally, I believe a lot of his ideas are more closely aligned with Protestantism (not necessarily the Church itself) than Catholicism.

I have tremendous respect for both faiths and couldn't care less which one Bono is or is not.
 
anitram said:


But among Catholic laity, the Rosary is not strictly used in prayer. For example, how many cars do you see on the road with a rosary hanging down on the windshield? This is a very common Catholic practice, and so I'm not sure that many people would find Bono's usage to be offensive per se.

Most of the people I've seen with them in there cars aren't Catholic. I don't find Bono's wearing the rosary offensive, I just would choose differently. It's his faith, his rosary, he can do with it what he chooses and I'll respect that.
 
We have no "Church" with a capital "C".

Actually, that's not true.

The Church, according to most Protestant denominations I've observed, is the body of Christ and is comprised of all believers. So if you're Christian and accept Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, you're part of the Church (of believers) and the body of Christ.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:



Basically, my point was that if you're trying to determine whether Bono is Catholic or Protestant, in the most general sense of those words, there isn't anything he's written or said that explicitly points one way or the other. Personally, I believe a lot of his ideas are more closely aligned with Protestantism (not necessarily the Church itself) than Catholicism.


"there isn't anything he's written or said that explicitly points one way or the other."

I disagree. I think his remarks point strongly, from many years ago to now, to an affiliation with the ideas that shaped Shalom, which were the ideas expounded by Watchman Nee, whose faith was in turn shaped by the Plymouth Brethren.
Remember them? (The Rowens were members of that group.)
If you check out the doctrine of these people, you will hear clearly that Bono echoes their beliefs. There's nothing remotely Catholic about them.
 
aislinn said:


Actually, that's not true.

The Church, according to most Protestant denominations I've observed, is the body of Christ and is comprised of all believers. So if you're Christian and accept Christ as your personal Lord and Savior, you're part of the Church (of believers) and the body of Christ.

Church in a general sense (not within a Protestant context, as you described above) with a capital C usually refers to a hierarchical, unified Church. Protestant churches do not answer to anyone but their own single church. Yes, there is Synod, etc, but churches elect their own clergy, elders, and deacons. Churches makes their own budgets. The Catholic Church has a single leader, the Pope, and their churches are clumped into regional, national, etc. groups. Clergy are appointed.
 
biff said:


"there isn't anything he's written or said that explicitly points one way or the other."

I disagree. I think his remarks point strongly, from many years ago to now, to an affiliation with the ideas that shaped Shalom, which were the ideas expounded by Watchman Nee, whose faith was in turn shaped by the Plymouth Brethren.
Remember them? (The Rowens were members of that group.)
If you check out the doctrine of these people, you will hear clearly that Bono echoes their beliefs. There's nothing remotely Catholic about them.

Yes, you are right. Sorry, I've read a lot more on Bono/U2 since I became a fan, which was in the 90s, so I honestly don't know much about the whole Shalom period. Even with that aside, I'm inclined to think Bono is Protestant.
 
LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:

and their churches are clumped into regional, national, etc. groups. Clergy are appointed.

Yes, but there are Protestant denominations like the ones I mentioned which basically function exactly the same way.

I honestly don't understand why anyone would care which way Bono leans. He's a follower of Christ, as is a Protestant as is a Catholic as is an Eastern Rite Orthodox Christian and anything else is a total pissing match anyway.
 
anitram said:

I honestly don't understand why anyone would care which way Bono leans. He's a follower of Christ, as is a Protestant as is a Catholic as is an Eastern Rite Orthodox Christian and anything else is a total pissing match anyway.

:huh: I thought I just posted that I don't care what he is? Doesn't mean we can't have fun discussing and speculating. :shrug:
 
anitram said:


He's a follower of Christ, as is a Protestant as is a Catholic as is an Eastern Rite Orthodox Christian and anything else is a total pissing match anyway.

Yes, but there are idiots out there who don't think that way.
I should know, I grew up in a church *full* of such idiots



It's probably one of the reasons why some people are so "concerned" about whether the boys are Protestant or Catholic or what their specific beliefs are, etc. :mad:
 
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biff said:


Sorry, but you must have access to something that no one else has read. If you can find that interview, and share it, then you would be disseminating information that no one else has ever seen. How a Welsh Presbyterian/Shalom Christian Fellowship member became Catholic would be a fascinating story indeed!
I suspect that his first wife was Catholic (I'm not sure), but even if this was the case, he wouldn't be in a position to "offer" their three children Catholicism. That might perhaps be her role. His second wife is Jewish. It's not publicly known how they are raising their children, faith-wise. :shrug:
Edge is most definitely not Catholic. (Not that there's anything wrong with that.:wink: )

Right from u2faqs.com...

Are you raising your kids as Catholics?

Em . . . technically yes, but again I'm not in favour of presenting something that I think is ultimately very personal in any kind of fundamental way. I think it's really up to everyone, when they reach a certain age, to figure it out for themselves. You know, they are Catholic in terms of their upbringing or whatever, but really they'll decide themselves what they wanna believe, when they get older.


The key is in the question..."are YOU raising your kids Catholic?" And it was pretty easy to find...it's one of the first things you can find on google. This was in Hot Press, so I DO have access to something A LOT of people have read.
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Religion

ChildofGrace said:


Right from u2faqs.com...

Are you raising your kids as Catholics?

Em . . . technically yes, but again I'm not in favour of presenting something that I think is ultimately very personal in any kind of fundamental way. I think it's really up to everyone, when they reach a certain age, to figure it out for themselves. You know, they are Catholic in terms of their upbringing or whatever, but really they'll decide themselves what they wanna believe, when they get older.


The key is in the question..."are YOU raising your kids Catholic?" And it was pretty easy to find...it's one of the first things you can find on google. This was in Hot Press, so I DO have access to something A LOT of people have read.

I also remember someone telling me once that Bono's kids go to a Catholic school, not that it's always the best indicator of what denomination someone is. Around here, tons of kids cross denominations in their schooling and attend Catholic, Reformed, Lutheran, or Baptist schools based on location, programs, sports, etc, rather than their respective denominations. I went to a Reformed school with Presbyterians, Baptists, and even some Jewish or Wiccan people.
 
biff said:
"there isn't anything he's written or said that explicitly points one way or the other."

I disagree. I think his remarks point strongly, from many years ago to now, to an affiliation with the ideas that shaped Shalom, which were the ideas expounded by Watchman Nee, whose faith was in turn shaped by the Plymouth Brethren.
Remember them? (The Rowens were members of that group.)
If you check out the doctrine of these people, you will hear clearly that Bono echoes their beliefs. There's nothing remotely Catholic about them.


Bono left Shalom because it was too strict (as did Larry and the Edge. I think Larry was the first of the U2 members to leave, he said it had become 'like a cult' (he says this in the recent Mojo interview).

I can see where your coming from as regards Shalom being influenced by the Plymouth Brethern, for example as regards worship practices, e.g. the requirement for women to cover their heads in services - in fact that was one of the elements that turned Bono and Gavin Friday off Shalom, or at least the direction it was taking at the time they left.
 
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LivLuvAndBootlegMusic said:


:huh: I thought I just posted that I don't care what he is? Doesn't mean we can't have fun discussing and speculating. :shrug:

I didn't direct that comment at you, LivLuv. It's just that if you peruse this board this comes up every once in a while and to me, it's getting tired. Usually it's slanted heavily in the same direction anyway. It's just the same as when in FYM you get the usual suspect with the "what would Bono do" high horse mentality and the "Bono is not a pacifist" stuff, like people are mentally incapable of coming to a conclusion about anything without first checking what Bono thinks. I do hold him in high regard, but I guess I never understood this need to categorize him and his beliefs and then quibble over them. So it's nothing you said specifically, more a general observation of how these threads tend to go in this forum.
 
anitram said:


I didn't direct that comment at you, LivLuv. It's just that if you peruse this board this comes up every once in a while and to me, it's getting tired. Usually it's slanted heavily in the same direction anyway. It's just the same as when in FYM you get the usual suspect with the "what would Bono do" high horse mentality and the "Bono is not a pacifist" stuff, like people are mentally incapable of coming to a conclusion about anything without first checking what Bono thinks. I do hold him in high regard, but I guess I never understood this need to categorize him and his beliefs and then quibble over them. So it's nothing you said specifically, more a general observation of how these threads tend to go in this forum.

Ah, ok, sorry. I agree. He's too ambiguous when he talks about religion and faith for anyone to know for sure, not that I really care in either direction. As for the Shalom stuff, that was a long time ago. I've changed a lot in terms of religion, just in the past two years, sometimes even complete 180s from what I believed while in high school.
 
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ChildofGrace said:


Right from u2faqs.com...

Are you raising your kids as Catholics?

Em . . . technically yes, but again I'm not in favour of presenting something that I think is ultimately very personal in any kind of fundamental way. I think it's really up to everyone, when they reach a certain age, to figure it out for themselves. You know, they are Catholic in terms of their upbringing or whatever, but really they'll decide themselves what they wanna believe, when they get older.


The key is in the question..."are YOU raising your kids Catholic?" And it was pretty easy to find...it's one of the first things you can find on google. This was in Hot Press, so I DO have access to something A LOT of people have read.

IIRC that is an Edge quote, not a Bono quote. :D

Also IIRC Bono and Ali are both Protestants so why would they raise their kids as Catholics (not that I have a problem with that, it just appears a little odd)
 
kimby said:

I should know, I grew up in a church *full* of such idiots

Apparently, I work with them. They listen only to contemporary Christian music(nothing wrong with this). The other day, I went to my boss' house to watch some football. He started asking me about U2 and the concerts I went to. I didn't know it would lead to this, but he asked if it is like people say. I said, "Like what." He said, "Like a Church service." I answered, it is what you make it to be. I find some value to it, but it's not Church to me.

So he goes on, "You know, my brother thinks he's the anti-Christ. And I thought about it, and it could be true. He's so vague on where he stands in his faith, but he's so respected. And he has so many followers."

Needless to say, I'm looking for a new job. :|
 
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The Fiddler said:


IIRC that is an Edge quote, not a Bono quote. :D

Also IIRC Bono and Ali are both Protestants so why would they raise their kids as Catholics (not that I have a problem with that, it just appears a little odd)

I think that quote was posted in reference to Edge anyway.

A lot of people send their kids to schools of different denominations. Just b/c the school is of a Catholic tradition doesn't mean the kids are being raised Catholic. Raising children is what parents do. A lot of Christians send their kids to public schools, and a lot of athiests send their kids to private schools. If one school is a lot better, or has programs that you child might need (like special ed help, or a reading program for kids who struggle with reading), the choice is quite simple. As elementary school kids, I don't think they can even comprehend the doctrinal differences between Catholicism and Protestantism anyway. Looking back, I see that I was definitely way off the mark, even through the end of high school. Kids will come to their own conclusions eventually. When they're still young, it's most important to give them the best education and opportunities available.
 
Got Philk? said:


Apparently, I work with them. They listen only to contemporary Christian music(nothing wrong with this). The other day, I went to my boss' house to watch some football. He started asking me about U2 and the concerts I went to. I didn't know it would lead to this, but he asked if it is like people say. I said, "Like what." He said, "Like a Church service." I answered, it is what you make it to be. I find some value to it, but it's not Church to me.

So he goes on, "You know, my brother thinks he's the anti-Christ. And I thought about it, and it could be true. He's so vague on where he stands in his faith, but he's so respected. And he has so many followers."

Needless to say, I'm looking for a new job. :|


Don't you just hate that?

He's not *that* vague about it! And they are "fans" not "followers"! Hmph!

But that's typical of that sort of Christian...I've heard "so and so must be the Anti-Christ" about everyone from Reagan to Mikail Gorbajav(sp?)(because of his birthmark!)...basically anybody famous, influentual, misunderstood or plain just disliked! Not too long ago I heard of someone trying to publish a book on George Bush being the Anti-Christ. Not that I'm a fan of Bush, but come on...!

Then there's some New Ager notion of a "being of love and light"
that some folks have fastened on as being the coming Anti-Christ...:huh:

Someone told my brother last year that they were traveling in Europe and could "sense" that the Anti-Christ was there...as a baby!!!!!!!:|

What really gets me is the label gets slapped on people who are doing good in the world as well as people who are not so good (I'm convinced that somewhere out there is someone who was
disappointed that Mother Teresa was not the Anti-Christ).

I personally think that these people misunderstand the meaning of the term "Anti-Christ", leading them to hang the word on anyone they might have a problem with, no matter what that person might actually be saying or doing.

Most , if not all of the problem stems from not reading (or not comprehending) what they read about the subject in the book of Revelations, or the Bible in general. I learned this as a child--after winning a "bible trivia" competition a respected member of my church came up and complemented me on my win. She mentioned in passing that she hadn't read Revelations "because it was so hard to understand". I was shocked! A devout and influentual member of the congregation hadn't read (what was to my church) such an important book!?!

I've since come to see that that sort of thing is more common than not. Many Christians never read the Bible at all or only the passages that the preacher directs them to during the sermon.
This leads to people being told that the Bible says all sorts of things that it actually doesn't. I've heard some doozies!

If Jesus came today and did what he did back then he would be labeled "The Anti-Christ".

I could rant on, but this thread has already been derailed enough!
:wink:
 
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kimby said:


I've since come to see that that sort of thing is more common than not. Many Christians never read the Bible at all or only the passages that the preacher directs them to during the sermon.
This leads to people being told that the Bible says all sorts of things that it actually doesn't. I've heard some doozies!

If Jesus came today and did what he did back then he would be labeled "The Anti-Christ".

I could rant on, but this thread has already been derailed enough!
:wink:

Very true. How many times have non- Christians argued points against the bible even when they haven't read a single line? These points can turn out the total opposite of what the bible DOES say. I totally agree with your point on if Jesus were here today. People would say he uses black magic whenever he did miracles.
 
edmerch1984 said:


I totally agree with your point on if Jesus were here today. People would say he uses black magic whenever he did miracles.

As a matter of fact, they did back then, too.

Luke 11:14-15
 
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