MERGED ----> Bono criticising the church

[sallycinnamon78]

Bono criticising the church

Firstly, apologies if this has been posted earlier: I did search the forum, but couldn't find any mention of it. I found this story online about 5 mins ago. I won't post the whole thing, just the jist of it and the link:

A priest today challenged Bono’s view of the role religion has played in Ireland. Jesuit historian Fr Fergus O’Donoghue said the lead singer of U2 must realise religion has made the country. Fr Odonoghue challenged remarks Bono made at the Annual National Prayer Breakfast at the Whitehouse in Washington DC earlier this year when he referred to the damage religion has done to Ireland.

“Bono is wrong. Religion has made Ireland,” Fr O’Donoghue said in an editorial in The Irish Jesuit Quarterly Studies. “The remark sounds profound but it is facile if not meaningless, because religion has made Ireland."
http://breakingnews.iol.ie/entertainment/story.asp?j=184479212&p=y844799y8

I'm assuming this refers to B's 2nd Feb speech in which he said: " I avoided religious people most of my life. Maybe it had something to do with having a father who was Protestant and a mother who was Catholic in a country where the line between the two was, quite literally, a battle line. Where the line between church and state was… well, a little blurry, and hard to see.

I remember how my mother would bring us to chapel on Sundays… and my father used to wait outside. One of the things that I picked up from my father and my mother was the sense that religion often gets in the way of God. For me, at least, it got in the way. Seeing what religious people, in the name of God, did to my native land… and in this country, seeing God’s second-hand car salesmen on the cable TV channels, offering indulgences for cash… in fact, all over the world, seeing the self-righteousness roll down like a mighty stream from certain corners of the religious establishment… "

I thought I ought to post it for anyone who is interested, although it's not exactly major news.

 

[BVS]

I guess Bono still has the ability to piss off those not on this board.

Here I thought Bono became the all appeasing non-partisan one...

 

[Harry Vest]

Bono's right.
That's not to say "religion" hasn't done ANY good in Ireland - I'm sure "it" has.

 

[Bono's shades]

It seems that Bono is criticizing how religion gets misused and twisted in other parts of the world, too, not just Ireland.

Heck, from the stuff I've heard and read about religion in Ireland, Bono could have been a LOT harsher in his remarks.

 

[Ellay]

There's a big difference between religion and faith.

 

[Irishteen]

There's a big difference between religion and faith.

Ye you're right

If anything made Ireland, it was faith a lot more than religion.

 

[An Cat Gav]

I agree with all your comments, but I think that him and Madonna could spend their time attacking institutions other than the Catholic Church, they're a soft target and have been bashed, albeit rightly, over the last twenty years, but its beginning to sound a little tired.
Bono is being a tad dramatic when he talks about "battle lines", he grew up in a middle class part of Dublin, not battle scarred west belfast.

 

[FEELINNUMB]

I am Catholic, and the Church is not a soft target, it has every intelligent criticism coming to it, because it continually and historically contravenes almost every tenet of the faith it is supposed to represent. And if it is getting tiresome, that's because nothing is changing. No one is beating a dead horse. We need more people like those on this board who see the difference between Church and Faith. There's not supposed to be one, but there is. And it is the Church that damaged Ireland, even worse than the British, because the British were identified as the enemy/aggressor. The Faith is what saved Ireland.

And please, do not class Bono with Madonna in any context. Bono is a man of intelligence, integrity and faith. Madonna is a narcissistic idiot whose life is dedicated to getting attention at any price.

 

[Niamh_Saoirse]

"Bono's words are meaningless" says Priest.

Priest rejects Bono's criticism of Church's influence



A priest today challenged Bono’s view of the role religion has played in Ireland.

Jesuit historian Fr Fergus O’Donoghue said the lead singer of U2 must realise religion has made the country.

Fr Odonoghue challenged remarks Bono made at the Annual National Prayer Breakfast at the Whitehouse in Washington DC earlier this year when he referred to the damage religion has done to Ireland.

“Bono is wrong. Religion has made Ireland,” Fr O’Donoghue said in an editorial in The Irish Jesuit Quarterly Studies.

“The remark sounds profound but it is facile if not meaningless, because religion has made Ireland.

"Irish civilisation is profoundly Christian, which means that Christian belief has been formative in every aspect of Irish political, economic and social development.”

Fr O’Donoghue said he admires the work the U2 singer does in combating Aids and highlighting the plight of poorer regions.

“But I said to myself: 'That is completely wrong. You can’t visualise Ireland without religion,'” he said, adding: “Most Irish people for 1,500 years have been committed Christians.”

The historian highlighted the role Christianity played in bringing learning to Ireland. He said talking about damage was biased and unfair.

Another article on African Pentecostals in 21st-century Ireland estimates around 30,000 members are taking part in Irish churches.

In The Irish Jesuit Quarterly Studies, Abel Ugba said many of them feel pity for what they see as the loose behaviour and religious illiteracy of young Irish people.

He said: “Indeed, some African Pentecostals are convinced that, far from resting content on the margins of Irish society, they actually have a ‘mission’ to bring modern-day Ireland back to its traditional sense of Christian belief and spirituality.”

 

[Niamh_Saoirse]

Hmm, actually this should go in the "Goal is Soul" subforum. Mods, please move if you think it's necessary. And sorry about posting in the wrong place.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Yes I'm quite sure that Father O'Donoghue doesn't see what Bono means by "religion". If he read more that Bono has said or spoke to him personally I'm sure he would understand him better.

 

[Galeongirl]

maybe religion has made Ireland, but that priest should take a look at the facts, at how it divided and also destroyed the county!

 

[bridgit]

There is a big difference between organized religion and faith. My grandparents were very faithful Christians but religion was the reason they left Ireland.

 

[babyman]

Religion is people's opium

 

[last unicorn]

I think Bono is totally right about the church and he has every right to criticise it. He was raised in this country and has spent most of his life there, so he knows pretty well what has been going on and has seen what "religion" can do to people. Religion has nothing to do with being faithful. I am proud of people like Bono who have a very deep belief in God and still dare to challenge churches and religions.

 

[An Cat Gav]

I am a Catholic also and all I was trying to say was that there are more relevent people/organisations for Bono or whoever to target for the source of the worlds ill, like his good friends Messers Bush and Blair for example. I'd like to see a few pop stars criticize islamic fundamentalists for example rather than slag off the church, I guess they do it because they know the Church wont bite back!!
I know that the Catholic Church fucked up Ireland, I'm Irish, I grew up there, I know it all too well thanks. I'm saying that this is old news and they should change the fucking record.

 

[An Cat Gav]

faith is what matters not religion.

 

[An Cat Gav]

I also agree that Madonna has become a total twat and believe me I wouldn't normally use Mrs Ritchie's name in the same paragraph as the B mans unless I really had to.

 

[FEELINNUMB]

I am a Catholic also and all I was trying to say was that there are more relevent people/organisations for Bono or whoever to target for the source of the worlds ill, like his good friends Messers Bush and Blair for example. I'd like to see a few pop stars criticize islamic fundamentalists for example rather than slag off the church, I guess they do it because they know the Church wont bite back!!
I know that the Catholic Church fucked up Ireland, I'm Irish, I grew up there, I know it all too well thanks. I'm saying that this is old news and they should change the fucking record.

See, I disagree -- the Church bites back big time, in fact, I wouldn't be surprised if this article is a result of the beginning of a backlash from the Church. Jesuits usually "get it," which is why they are being pressured more and more by the Vatican fascisti. I think this priest is playing games to curry favor with Rome, either by his initiative or their edict. I was wondering how long it would take them to start really fearing Bono. No one can deny Bono's impact, and they can't hide from the fact that a singer in a rock and roll band is doing what THEY should be doing, by vow and definition.

And the same garbage the Church pulled in Ireland is alive and well today, so it is not old news. I'm in the US, and it is becoming untenable here. George Bush, the executioner and war monger, being championed by the Church as the "right to life" candidate? And people BUYING that? The whole Roe vs. Wade manipulation? And last fall, when the Caesar's coin gospel came around? My local archdiocese sent out an edict that everyone's homily should explain how this piece of scripture CONDONES NO SEPARATION OF CHURCH AND STATE! It is the EXACT OPPOSITE OF THAT, but they are now unabashedly ordering perversion of scripture to fit their political ambitions. Maybe it is the difference between London and New York, but regardless, I think we should all fasten our seat belts, because Bono's influence and impact is beginning to get under Rome's skin. It is a grave mistake to underestimate their power and their influence. Not to mention the fact that we should all be furious that they are doing this in the name of the Lord, and doing our level best to fight them.

 

[LJT]

I am a Catholic also and all I was trying to say was that there are more relevent people/organisations for Bono or whoever to target for the source of the worlds ill, like his good friends Messers Bush and Blair for example. I'd like to see a few pop stars criticize islamic fundamentalists for example rather than slag off the church, I guess they do it because they know the Church wont bite back!!
I know that the Catholic Church fucked up Ireland, I'm Irish, I grew up there, I know it all too well thanks. I'm saying that this is old news and they should change the fucking record.

For a start he did not just attack the Catholic Church in that speech, he attacked the religious establishment in general, from the preachers on American TV to the Catholic church, in the Irish context as well, he did not lay sole blame on the Catholic Church in Ireland.

 

[ntalwar]

I'd like to see a few pop stars criticize islamic fundamentalists for example rather than slag off the church, I guess they do it because they know the Church wont bite back!!

Apparently, you haven't read Bono's speeches on The One Campaign/Africa or heard some live song introductions.

 

[sweetongue]

Re: "Bono's words are meaningless" says Priest.

“Bono is wrong. Religion has made Ireland,” Fr O’Donoghue said in an editorial in The Irish Jesuit Quarterly Studies.

nothing can be "completely wrong" or "right". i think there are always two sides to a story, and the priest should have thought about some other possibilities such as the one Bono had suggested.

 

[BVS]

I agree with all your comments, but I think that him and Madonna could spend their time attacking institutions other than the Catholic Church, they're a soft target and have been bashed, albeit rightly, over the last twenty years, but its beginning to sound a little tired.
Bono is being a tad dramatic when he talks about "battle lines", he grew up in a middle class part of Dublin, not battle scarred west belfast.

I think you missed the point...

 

[Dismantled]

maybe religion has made Ireland, but that priest should take a look at the facts, at how it divided and also destroyed the county!

and not just that country

 

[vaz02]

when people say religion i think bad things

i wonder why

 

[youvedonewhat]

maybe religion has made Ireland, but that priest should take a look at the facts, at how it divided and also destroyed the county!

Exactly! Well said, GG

 

[LostAtMoon]

Re: "Bono's words are meaningless" says Priest.

I think there are too many people mixing the concepts religion faith and religion.
We just have to look around us to know religion is tearing the world apart. I believe faith is what can guide us to being better people and make our world a better place.
Bono is an excellent example of that.Faith is what moves him, not religion, so I think he's right. His actions speak for him.

 

[youvedonewhat]

Re: Re: "Bono's words are meaningless" says Priest.

I think there are too many people mixing the concepts religion faith and religion.
We just have to look around us to know religion is tearing the world apart. I believe faith is what can guide us to being better people and make our world a better place.
Bono is an excellent example of that.Faith is what moves him, not religion, so I think he's right. His actions speak for him.

Also well said, LAM.

 

[BorderGirl]

There's a big difference between religion and faith.

Our religious beliefs -- whether Hindu, Christian, Muslim, Buddhist, Transcendentalist -- provide a home in which and through which we may sustain and develop our faith.

 

[sallycinnamon78]

Hmm, actually this should go in the "Goal is Soul" subforum. Mods, please move if you think it's necessary. And sorry about posting in the wrong place.

Yes, many apologies for my terrible crime of posting in the wrong area.