does "spirituality" influence Bono's lyrics the most?

[The Wanderer]

I know most people like to say spirituality, and if you are reading this now you probably agree with that statement, but spirituality can be such a vague term, and of course there is a distinction between spirituality and religion, much like the distinction between love and sex. But what inspiration and influences have created the greatest U2 songs/albums? And which albums are influenced the most by each of these themes?

love/ sex/ politics/ human rights/ religion/ spirituality/ death...

for instance, I feel that spirituality probably is his greatest influence at this stage of his life, and this leads to undertones of death, but I think love/sex influenced him the most during the 90s; obviously politics and religion -- and how they relate to human rights where pervasive in the 80s, but that doesn't mean other albums didn't discuss these things, I'm just talking about what which albums focus most directly on these issues. I don't want to use the term "narrow" or "single-minded," because these things are never narrow-minded when Bono is discussing them, unlike some "other" popular song-writers of the day, and Bono always seems to find time to talk about so many different themes on each U2 album, but one cannot deny that an album like War is much more focused on politics than an album like the Joshua Tree, even though it does talk about politics, it shifts focus around a great deal throughout the album.

And lastly, what do you think is the most all-encompassing U2 album for these themes?

my list would be, first individually...

politics: War
human rights: Unforgettable Fire
religion: October
spirituality: Joshua Tree, All That You Can't Leave Behind
love: Achtung Baby
sex: Achtung Baby
death: All That You Can't Leave Behind

I think that perhaps the Joshua Tree is the best at encorporating all of these elements, then perhaps Pop and All That You Can't Leave Behind following close behind.

The one I know people will raise an eyebrow at here is Pop, but if you look at the songs, you have two songs that explore the political realm so adeptly in "Please" and "Starring at the Sun," and you have yourself two haunting religious journeys with "If God Will Send His Angels" and "Wake Up Dead Man," and of course "Please" falls into this category as well. Love, sex and death are simultaneously explored during "Gone," while "Miami" and "If You Wear That Velvet Dress" evocatively flirt with sex and seduction. "Mofo" is an indication, I think, of where Bono was heading with his song-writing, grappling with the notion of mortality and death, the song is extremely dark and brooding. "The Playboy Mansion" is, at times, a fine critique of pop culture, though it falters slightly with the lyrics (had the chance to do more here and didn't). "Last Night on Earth" and "Discotheque" express the desire to live and, I think more than anything else, be loved -- to be embraced by life, rather than avoid it, through means of direct intercourse.

This thread could serve many purposes, do with it what you wish, I used it partially as a spring-board for throwing some praise at the often beseiged Pop. But what patterns do YOU see? Is it better to focus on one theme? What influence on Bono's writing style creates the best songs and what do you prefer? Talk about an album in particular if you like (e.g., I said October was U2's most religious album, but didn't elaborate and chose to discuss the various themes of Pop, an album where I think maybe Bono just tried to talk about too much, making it seems scattered and chaotic and entirely unfocused to many). So we could have some interesting discussions here I hope, or if you don't feel like it, that's ok too I guess. I still don't think there is any 1 particular theme that dominates Bono's song-writing, but some of you may disagree. The next album will reveal quite a bit, I believe, but until then...

(or you could talk about radiohead songs if you just want to piss off Salome)

-----------
her eyes are swimming pool blue...
she tastes... of chlorine

 

[oliveu2cm]

I dont have a lot of time right now, but I had recently drawn up a list of the themes affecting Bono's music. Here's what my friend & I came up with:

God, Jesus
Woman
CNN exploitation & war
Death - Birth (altho more death than birth)
Fame vs. a Person
Overcoming personal struggle (WO, Stuck etc)
Temptation! (which goes along with woman, but is SUCH a strong theme in so many songs)
TIME

more later, i promise

 

[oliveu2cm]

Wanderer, you bring up many good points. It's important to note that Bono himself has said "All our songs are about God or women,
and we often get the two mixed up." which relates to what you said about that fine line of religion/love and sex.

I recently read this in an old HotPress interview from 87:
"Bono: I am interested in that aspect of sexuality. When I look at my lyrics, I'm
obsessed with borders, be they political, sexual or spiritual. It's not a subject I've
broached yet but I wouldn't rule it out." which is important to note he said this before AB.

so I agree with all the dominate themes you've matched with the albums, and added my own in:

politics: War
human rights: Unforgettable Fire
religion: October, Boy
spirituality: Joshua Tree, All That You Can't Leave Behind Pop
love: Achtung Baby Pop
sex: Achtung Baby Pop
death: All That You Can't Leave Behind
confusion: Zooropa

Pop goes in love & sex like AB b/c of the fuzziness between those two categories which I mentioned above. I also think Pop is an incredibly spiritual (spiritually confused, even) album.

Zooropa is almost the explotation of all these themes- taken to an extreme. Sex and love and lust all run rampant. Zooropa (song) starts the album out on this all night high, just bright lights and brilliant distractions, coming in the form of sex, and even the devil. Religion is taken to the opposite extreme in that album in the sense it is buried- you can see it peeking out only in The Wanderer. (haha, no pun intended

)

I threw in Boy on religion, but I think it's an album that has Bono dipping his toe into a bunch of the themes, but never really grasping them. Seeing what's out there, what'll bite. Perfect for his first album.

Which do I prefer? I'm not sure if it's b/c I'm selfish or what, but the songs I "prefer", meaning they rock my soul the most, would be from the AB album. Velvetdress & I did an analysis on that entire album (lol!) and I've posted it elsewhere, and I really don't want to come off as shoving it down pl's throats, but it was eye opening to write it- u can read it at my website off the "reading list" link. It's a hard album to deal with and a hard one to reallly enjoy after you think about it all. I remember Bono has said recently how black and dark AB & Pop is and how it's a bit hard for him to listen to now also.

Perhaps another theme in all this would be Searching. Certainly a theme in JT, AB, Zoo and Pop. Searching for God in all those albums. I'd say in ATYCLB the searching turns to searching for the "God in people" - like from that Walk On book, the pastor who wrote "be god" instead of "be good" (I hope i'm siting that correctly). Not that Bono's found waht he was looking for in God or wahtever, but hmm like he said in the MuchMusic interview in 2000, that God often gets the bad rap for our mistakes. So - and i'm just thinking as I write all this- perhaps he has taken the pressure off of God and turned to people, searching for the "beauty in everyday things".

Another thing I was talking w/ VelvetDress about, and she's away so we haven't had a chance to discuss much, this whole idea of finding the beauty in every day things. I was in Church, on Christmas, no less, and thinking about what would make Jesus happy? Like if I were to say, have a nice day, Jesus- what would make him have a nice day? It wouldn't be getting presents, material things don't matter to him. So cars, houses, jewelry, etc are all out of the question. And what does that leave? It leaves the beauty in the every day things. Seeing two people love each other, someone helping another just because, you know those random acts of kindness - and ugh i'm treading into cliched waters here but I don't know how else to say it. I just thought that connection I had was interesting, b/c it's almost what Bono and the band were going after w/ ATLCLB. the most important stuff.

Okay so on that note, I don't think they perfected their quest and I dont see ATYCLB as a perfect album musically... AB & JT are preferred over that one.. but it has soul and I think it is close. I'm not knocking it, just saying that there's a little bit missing and I think they're gonna find it on the next album..

Since I've rambled on and on I'll let someone else have a go at it now.

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"Songs are the language of the spirit... the melodies are how you sing to God. It's a deep language. But they can't explain everything, because really great songs touch places that you can't explain." -Bono

** U2 Take Me Higher ** <--my "spoons"

Jazz man bass man cool -bluey-

*If I didn't have my spoons, I'd go insane!*

[This message has been edited by oliveu2cm (edited 01-05-2002).]

 

[scatteroflight]

This is an interesting thread. I want to read it in more detail when I have more time, but the one thing I wanted to do right now as a result was to say what I think the main themes are of each U2 album.

Boy: adolescence, difficulties of growing up
October: faith
War: politics, divisiveness and letting go of the things that divide
Unforgettable Fire: addiction
Joshua Tree: love, loss, searching
Rattle and Hum: travel, exploration
Achtung Baby: love, sex, fidelity and infidelity
Zooropa: postmodern confusion

Pop: the pitfalls of the modern world
ATYCLB: death, faith, overcoming obstacles

Hmmm, I really don't think I did a very good job on that. I really didn't know what to put for JT, R&H, Zooropa and Pop. The latter two because I'm not so familiar with them, and JT and R&H because they don't seem to me to have overriding themes.

------------------
You say you want
Diamonds on a ring of gold
Your story to remain untold
Your love not to grow cold

[This message has been edited by scatteroflight (edited 01-05-2002).]

 

[theSoulfulMofo]

Boy: innocence, or the lost of... mourning loss of Bono and Larry's mother, childhood friendships and loves, adolescent frustrations

October: religious liturgy, the rock standard for church hymnals (as oxymoronic as it might sound.

the Unforgettable Fire: inspiration(al) tribute... "Bad" to inspire those in the "seven towers" of Dublin to give up their heroin addiction, "Promenade" lyrics inspired by Gerald Manley Hopkins, "MLK" - Dr. King

Joshua Tree: journey into America... exploring America's state of spiritual desert amidst its consumer-cultural riches... an outsider looking into America

Rattle and Hum: putting the spiritual force back behind the political... getting to the roots of the revolution, as it were in the hey-day of the sixties, with likes of Beatles, Bob Dylan, Jimi Hendrix, B.B. King... saying that it's not about the political agenda that changes the world, but the love that is (or should be) behind these changes.

Achtung Baby: Commercialmedia personified in the spiritual -or- the spiritual personified in the commercial?? Taking the more complex issues raised by spirituality and transformed into the pop-commercial medium a la Andy Warhol = wisdom and sarcasm mixed in a martini, for those who get it and those who don't ... every topic may be found in just one song: love, sex, death, betrayal, uncertainty, soul-searching, hypocrisy, image/media distortion, embracing uncertainty (that's a topic rock band's usually don't talk about! Other than the Beatles, usual rock themes these days are about fate and love... and the hope that no-talent bands will make it some day.)

Zooropa: an extension of AB, ... deals with more "Zoo Station"/"Ultraviolet" soul-searching ("I'm ready for the laughing gas, ready for what's next" vs. "I have no map... no reasons to get back") ... songs of love, sex, astraying from God and loved ones, encountering/embracing more uncertainites ... done with more light psychedelic humor (as in "a druggie don't care") than AB's dark humor.

POP: AB's dark humor + Zoo's pop glam = a more bitter pill... sarcastic attack on consumerism.. that all monkeys evolve into Kmart shoppers.. the glamour, glitz, and big sets went waaaaaaay over the audience's heads, probably because their minds were brainwashed by the faceless corporation who tells them to "buy, buy, buy"... like JT, AB, and Zoo... it's a wake-up call for ppl. to drop their material addiction.. but it hasn't seem to work at all until...

ATYCLB: Joy in midst of tribulation. Different music, different band, but the messsage remains the same-- take only what you need (ie ATYCLB), and you can go anywhere in life. Simple, direct message, the same message they've been tryin to get out for the past 15 years, and finally it worked! I think. Forget the literary allusions of JT, forget the sarcasm of ZooTV and POP, ... just tell it as it is..

But the question remains: What is U2's next step in their spiritual evolution? Their next medium?

 

[brettig]

I think many of the aforementioned themes overlap alot...sex and spirituality for example...no doubt bono uses sex as a spiritual metaphor as well as vice versa. Achtung Baby certainly does this, just reading thru Acrobat or One and u can see these themes seamlessly intertwined.

Similarly i think themes of death and spirituality and polotics have crossed over many times. Not to mention all the many many different types of love bono refers to in his work. These range from reverence to God, MLK and other political, spiritual or musical leaders, his love for his parents and children, and his being enamoured with ideals, to romantic relationships, be they fleeting or longterm... (Ali

)

So i dont usually see a dominant theme to a U2 album or even their career, for u just need to look from another angle and u see the picture in a totally different light. I guess i agree that spirituality could be credited with guiding U2 into several other things that took/take thematic focus, but to me to argue spirituality is totally dominant would be like saying slavery caused the Civil War...then again maybe not

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I am The PingKing.

'Cricket is Baseball on Valium' Robin Williams

 

[truecoloursfly]

Well, first to the original question: yes.

Or really, I think that his spirituality is the lens through which Bono expresses his influences -- all of them. Sometimes, God is his explicit subject, but God is always there implicitly.

The more I think about it, the more impressed I become with the band's assertion that their "spirituality" should be there for those who can hear it, and not for those who can't. As a poet myself, I'm amazed that Bono has so consistently and elegantly pulled that off! I forget sometimes, because as a unit, U2 is so much more than the sum of its members -- and because I've grown up with them

-- but Bono is one of the premier writers of the rock era.
I know I'm stating the obvious to some, but -- especially with ATYCLB -- it's kinda like realizing that your own brother really is one of the poets of the age, you know?

He's the face of a great rock band, like Mick; he isn't known primarily as a songwriter or auteur like Dylan or Bowie, or even Leonard Cohen. Yet his words stand with all of them. And his words stand for God (to return to the point, finally

).

Or rather, for his relationship with his God. As in, the fights and discussions, the love and the connection, the joy and the fear. I think that's why U2 from the beginning touched me so directly, even in my inarticulate youth, because Bono was living that relationship, not writing Hallmark cards about it, you know?

On to the second question shortly...you guys are giving me lots to think about.

Deb D

 

[truecoloursfly]

Part II -- themes on the albums.
You know that saying, "people may forget what you said, they may forget what you did, but they'll never forget how you made them feel."
That's kind of how I found myself pondering this question...intellectually, I'd have said, oh he's just writing about Bono-stuff, as usual.

But each album has such a strong "feel" of its own. There are some days (or periods), for instance, when I CAN'T listen to AB or Pop. Some days when October seems too "young," perhaps. Conversely, I know precisely what I NEED to listen to on a given day, and from that I glean the themes that speak to me on each.

Boy [the album I know least]: Adolescence, a world unto itself.

Punk anger and confusion -- without the bitterness! Amazing...
October: the spiritual wilderness. Scarlet sums it up for me, a moving, musical oxymoron.
War: politics, spectacularly. Without realizing it, I learned from them in 1983 that the political IS the personal. -- And the spiritual.("I gotta die to myself someday...") (Say amen, somebody.)
The Unforgettable Fire: alienation. scatteroflight, you mentioned "addiction," and olive and Wanderer, you both ascribed to it "human rights," all of which ring true. There's a brokenness in it, a freefall from community.
The Joshua Tree: considering I've declared this is the album to be stuck on a desert island with, it behooves me to know why. Ummm... spirituality, then: all the songs, even as they vary in context, seem to be about the state of the soul. In the world (In God's Country, Exit, Red Hill..., MOTD) and in one's heart (the killer first three songs!).
R&H: I've always taken it to be a scrapbook more than a "novel" (if we're talkin' themes here), but in the original songs on it (short stories, if you like

) -- holy cow, I didn't realize how unified they were in their examination of the world's failure to fulfill our Desire... definitely spiritual, then.
Achtung Baby: relationships. Learning to love each other -- out of God-college and into the working world! JT is the breath of an angel compared to this heavy mofo.
Zooropa: alienation again -- not the drifting fog of UF, but a cold, mechanical, numbness.
Pop [their dark masterpiece]: when the numbness wears off and the pain sets in. Political, sexual, emotional, spiritual. So which "theme" is it? All of them, yes. It is an existential howl.
ATYCLB: death, transcendence, and eternal love (human and divine).

(jeez, can we get the rest of EYKIW in here?? They don't know what they're missing! Great question, Wanderer.)

blessings,
Deb D

 

[Kieran McConville]

Originally posted by brettig:
I think many of the aforementioned themes overlap alot...sex and spirituality for example...no doubt bono uses sex as a spiritual metaphor as well as vice versa. Achtung Baby certainly does this, just reading thru Acrobat or One and u can see these themes seamlessly intertwined.

Similarly i think themes of death and spirituality and polotics have crossed over many times. Not to mention all the many many different types of love bono refers to in his work. These range from reverence to God, MLK and other political, spiritual or musical leaders, his love for his parents and children, and his being enamoured with ideals, to romantic relationships, be they fleeting or longterm... (Ali

)

So i dont usually see a dominant theme to a U2 album or even their career, for u just need to look from another angle and u see the picture in a totally different light. I guess i agree that spirituality could be credited with guiding U2 into several other things that took/take thematic focus, but to me to argue spirituality is totally dominant would be like saying slavery caused the Civil War...then again maybe not

Just want to say I agree with this. Couldn't have put it better myself. The themes in U2's songs are tangled up a bit too much (or too well) for me to even attempt to do an album-by-album breakdown.

War is definitely the most 'political', Achtung Baby the most 'sexual', possibly October the most 'spiritual' (but given the circumstances in which it was made it might be a tad unfair to lay too much weight upon it). And between those three points their whole career lurches.

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"I could walk into this room
and the waves of conversation
are enough
to knock you down
with the undertow

soooo alone..."