Mrs. Edge said:
But is it really a choice? The choice is love me or go to hell. Obviously most people are so afraid of hell that they pick the former. That isn't love that's fear and blackmail! Also, isn't "worship" a kind of puppetry anyway?
Not trying to pick on you at all, I am just genuinely trying to understand how this is a real choice here.
I believe that it is a choice because many (most?) people choose to not follow God. They choose to go their own way and do what they feel is right in their eyes without seeking to determine if this is what God wants for their life. So, yes I believe it's still a choice.
I think using the father analogy will be the closest thing we will know on this earth. OK, let's say that you are a young girl and you have a street in front of your house. Your father tells you that you should not cross the street because he doesn't want the cars to injure you. The problem is that in your 5 years you can not remember ever seeing a car and every day you are tempted to go into the street because you begin to believe that your father is not telling the truth. You start to believe that you are indeed smarter than your father (Pride). And then one day you notice a swing set on the other side of the street and it looks like fun, but your father said that he didn't want you to cross the street. So what do you do?
You have a choice, you can stay with your father and live in community with your father or you can disobey him and check out the swing set. Your father knew you would be curious, because he made you and knows you, and it was for that reason that he warned you not to cross the street. Well, one day you've convinced yourself that your father must be withholding something from you because the swing set looks like so much fun. So with your eyes fixed on the swing set you cross the street and don't see the oncoming car until it is too late.
Our lives are a daily (hourly?) battle against the temptations that would keep you from community with God. His commandments are designed to spare us from from oncoming traffic, but because of the fall our hearts are deceitful and we don't want to trust in God, we want to do things our own way. This is true whether you grew up in the church or not. When you do good, do you not feel good? When you act charitably toward your neighbor, or hold your temper instead of yelling at your fiance, you feel good for doing something selfless, something righteous. And when your father encourages you to love your neighbor as yourself, and you do so, do you not feel closer to your father, and maybe adore him more? And when you decide that when your father asked you to remain pure before marriage and you sleep with your high school boyfriend, do you not feel further from your father, and maybe even loathe him for opposing you? And yet, your father although saddened by your weaknesses, does not cease to love you, but neither can he let your sin go unpunished, because that would not be just and it would not be loving you to allow you to continue rebelling. But instead of punishing you directly for sinning, he instead punishes his Son so that you may go free and have eternal community with the father. But there is only one condition, and it's a small one, but a life-changing one. You have to believe in the Son.
So, we don't worship him just because he's God. We worship him when we realize that he is good, that despite all of the times we have failed him, he keeps extending mercy to us and sent someone else to pay for the mistakes we've made. We worship him because we begin to recognize that walking like him is satisfying to the soul, and brings us closer to him.
I hope the analogy makes sense, I wanted to paint a picture of a father who loves us, and yet we rebel, and still he loves us and gives us a way to repay and unrepayable debt. And I use the 5 year old because in comparison to God, we are 5 years old. We just don't know enough about what he sees to righteously disagree with what he instructs us to do. We can disagree, and often do, but we're missing a large part of the picture that hasn't been revealed to us yet. And when we obey our father, we love him and adore him, and see him as a protector, and when we disobey him, we see him as tyrannical, mean and wrathful. And the only thing that has really changed is our behavior.
Well, I hope that this was helpful, it's hard to explain because it's still kind of hard to understand. If you want my advice and you are curious about Christianity, talk to your co-workers and friends and find some churches to visit. It's in there that you will find whether the people and message meet, or if it's just a bunch of hypocrites. Perhaps the most compelling example that this is for real for me is watching people's live become transformed. Sad people are a bit more joyful, marriages are strengthened, kids are better adjusted, people are more giving etc.
Good luck, and I hope the US of A gets you guys squared away soon that you can get on with your lives. 35 days and counting for us
I don't feel picked on at all, I think you've been most respectful in your disagreements, which makes discussion possible.
I need to get some work done here before I go home.
you sound like you have a lot more peace than you did before
). Bono said (or sang, can't remember) about something called a God-shaped hole. As a Buddhist at heart myself, maybe when I'm following the teachings of the Buddha, I could fill that God-shaped hole with my belief in God and Jesus. Heck, Jesus and Buddha have so many things in common that if they met, I'm willing they would greet eachother with open arms. That's the spiritual idea that came to me recently and its still not that developed, but hay, its a start in trying to achieve my own spiritual peace of mind.
