My Heritage/Nationality

[u2bonogirl]

Maybe you expressed it the right way, but it was not clear to me. that's why I asked.

the face made it seem like you weren't really asking a question
blah.
I'm having a frustrating day and I'm arguing in this thread because I dont want to deal with college crap

 

[yolland]

Why is America unique in having citizens who insist on being considered another nationality?

It's perceived as an ethnic identity, not a national one. Often we'll phrase it as "Irish-American" or "Polish-American" or "African-American" or whatever (OK, so the last one is a continent, not a "culture," but for reasons involving the impossibility of tracing slaves' ancestors, African-American becomes the default "ethnic" identity). But then, some folks will say "We're Italian" like Sicy or "We're Dutch," like Lies--it's understood by other Americans to imply the same thing, though.

OK, so it's a unique custom, and you're free to consider it weird or flaky if you like. But why does it matter? It's not as if we're in any confusion about what our passports say when all's said and done. American is our national identity--some of us stop there; others go on to tack an ethnic qualifier onto that. So what?

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

^ simultaneous post



In origin that is what it means, but Nazi race science changed all that ("Aryan-Nordics" vs. "Jewish-Semitic"). Apparently the implication here is that LivLuv may have sinister leanings in that direction.

It's a sick thing to even suggest, and patently absurd too.

I knew which Aryan was being referred to. The reason I pointed it out was because it was pointed out that claiming you are Dutch or Italian isn't accurate. Italy and the Netherland are political divisions, ...we are all some percentage African.

And yes, it is an absurd thing to suggest that livluv has any leanings in that direction.

 

[Sicy]

Yo I dont care what anyone says, I am ITALIAN! I can call myself Italian-American, that's fine with me since I was born in the U.S., but honestly I cant really see why it would matter WHERE you were born, your blood still carries 'italian' blood or 'dutch' blood etc. My mom was born and raised in Italy until she was 26 years old, her family, past, ancestors were all born and raised in Italy. My dad kind of screwed it up because his parents, grandparents, etc were born and raised in Sicily.. but he was born in Nebraska. However, is blood is still Sicilian.

I can, however, see how if I was born and raised in Italy I guess I would be considered a hell of a lot more Italian than I am now, because I would be living in the Italian culture day in day out, speaking, reading, writing Italian, but in my opinion your bloodlines do not change, regardless of where you were born.

 

[meegannie]

It's perceived as an ethnic identity, not a national one.

On several of the surveys posted on Interference, people have listed that ethnic background as their "nationality." That's what I was referring to.

 

[yolland]

Uh. Got me there. Well, we do sometimes use the words interchangeably, and sometimes we also use other euphemisms like "blood" or "ancestry" or "heritage" or whatever. Bottom line is, whatever the term, it's always understood to be framed within the context of American-ness. I guess I can't put it any more tangibly than that.

It isn't experienced as an alternative to being American, and it has absolutely nothing to do with excessive shame or excessive pride or anything of that sort.

 

[U2Girl1978]

It's perceived as an ethnic identity, not a national one. Often we'll phrase it as "Irish-American" or "Polish-American" or "African-American" or whatever (OK, so the last one is a continent, not a "culture," but for reasons involving the impossibility of tracing slaves' ancestors, African-American becomes the default "ethnic" identity). But then, some folks will say "We're Italian" like Sicy or "We're Dutch," like Lies--it's understood by other Americans to imply the same thing, though.

OK, so it's a unique custom, and you're free to consider it weird or flaky if you like. But why does it matter? It's not as if we're in any confusion about what our passports say when all's said and done. American is our national identity--some of us stop there; others go on to tack an ethnic qualifier onto that. So what?

You've said it so much better than I could. Thanks.

 

[For Honor]

maybe there should be a whole section devoted to people who eat candy they don't like

 

[Liesje]

Well, I'm just flummelghasted!

Firstly ,I have always read you 300 years remarks to mean that's how long your family has been in the USA.

Secondly, I have seen you make the "more Dutch than Dutch" comment many times before and never once considered it a joke. Perhaps you need to add a wink smilie at the end of your joke otherwise you may sound like an arrogant, sheltered, ethnocentric idiot with no concept of decency nor decorum.

I like the term Yankee Dutch a whole lot better (as long as it doesn't offend the people in the USA that don't like being called Yanks)

Dude, why is it such a big deal to you what I am and what I call myself? I NEVER said we've lived here for 300 years. QUITE the contrary. I said, I know my genealogy as far back as the 1600s. Then I said, we are all first, second, and maybe third generation here. Just b/c we know our genealogy doesn't mean it has to be from this country It pretty much my mom's purpose in life, to find this all out, and she's spent decades researching both here and in Europe. We also have family back in the Netherlands who help her out from that end. I'm sorry if it was unclear, but your interpretation is incorrect.

Second, you can call me Dutch or Yankee Dutch. Yankee Dutch is more correct in the sense that to people who aren't Yankee Dutch it implies Dutch-American, but the true Yankee Dutch are those in Pennsylvania and many of them came to the US before our "clan" or whatever the hell you want to call it. So within the US, I can't tell someone else I'm Yankee Dutch b/c it's not historically or geographically correct.

As for the more Dutch than Dutch comment, you say I've said that before, which could be true, but I never though it was a big deal since no one said anything about it before. If it's really that big of a deal, a mod can go ahead and erase it, I don't care.

It's not that I'm not proud to be "American", but the term American means absolutely nothing except that it indicates where I live at the current point in time. Everyone in our community refers to themselves as Dutch, so feel free to stop over and convince tens of thousands of people that they're something they're not. Not to mention anyone else living around here who calls themselves Irish, Polish, Mexican, German, Italian, etc, etc. Feel free to post politically/historically/goegraphically correct re-classifications for every person on this forum......

c) or theres a more sinister interpretation of her pride in her Aryan roots

Sorry, this one probably doesn't deserve a response, but....wtf? If you're going to get all picky about what fucking word we're allowed or not allowed to use, I'd think you'd at least know that "Aryan"s are people from Asia/Middle East. If you want to call me a fucking Nazi, just do it straight up, alright? Yes, b/c I'm white and have Dutch heritage and live in a Dutch community, I'm a Nazi. What the fuck ever. Nevermind that half of the elderly people in this commuity fled the Netherlands during the war, stayed and helped save Jews on the underground, or went back and fought (if you must know, my grandpa fought in the 7th marine corps who were of the first to cross the Rhine and also liberated the Nordhausen concentration camp).

Finally, like you said, YOU don't live HERE so how the fuck would you know what we like to call ourselves and why? I'm not allowed to say what I am based on what our community has defined ourselves as for the past few decades, but you, not knowing me and having never been here are somehow more qualified to make that call? We don't call ourselves American, it doesn't make sense and it sounds absurd. If I met some new people at school and they asked what I was, if I said "American" they'd laugh in my face! In Africa is people asked me where I'm from, I say "Michigan, in the States". If they ask what I am, I say "Dutch." Just like when I ask them where they're from they say "Tanzania" and if I ask them what they are they say "[insert tribe/clan name here]".

If it makes you feel better, just think of it this way: ALL of my immediate family or ancestors are from the geographical area of Europe now refered to as Groningen. We have Dutch names (no, NOT Dutch-American, straight-up Dutch names), Dutch traditions, and Dutch/Yankee Dutch/Grunings language. Like ANY place in the world, our immediate local culture is obviously not purely synonymous with "The Netherlands" as a whole, I don't think that even needs to be said.

Sicy is Italian, I am Dutch. End of story. Thank you and goodnight.

 

[Muggsy]

thats because the irish get eveywhere...
i think it would be a challenge to find someone who DOESN'T have irish in them somehwhere down the line... my grandmother was quarter irish therefore i'm 1/16th irish!

I don't have irish relatives, as far as I know...

I think that many people from the USA say that they are irish, italian etc. cuz North america was, since a beginning a land of inmigrants.

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

Lies

 

[Sicy]

Sicy is Italian, I am Dutch. End of story. Thank you and goodnight.

 

[u2bonogirl]

I think she just made Sicy's day

Speaking of Italian. I'm making lasagna

 

[U2Girl1978]

Lies

 

[bammo2]

I am English

I have Irish heritage, but I'm still English. I was born in England and speak English, hold an English passport and live and work in England. Therefore, IMO, I'm English

 

[Miroslava]

Lies

 

[Liesje]

I am English

I have Irish heritage, but I'm still English. I was born in England and speak English, hold an English passport and live and work in England. Therefore, IMO, I'm English

see, whatever works, right?

 

[Ageeth]

If I met some new people at school and they asked what I was, if I said "American" they'd laugh in my face!



Dutch people here in the netherlands would do the same.
Cause you are not born in the netherlands, do not have a dutch passport, never been in the netherlands and you are not speaking/or writing the language.
You may have dutch blood,your roots are from the netherlands, but you are definitely not that dutch the way you think you are.

 

[ylimeU2]

I am English

I have Irish heritage, but I'm still English. I was born in England and speak English, hold an English passport and live and work in England. Therefore, IMO, I'm English

I'm an American.

I have a German heritage. My mother was born in Germany and came to the Untied States when she was 20. I was born in the Untied States and I speak English. I can speak/read/write a little German. I have an government issued passport from the United States of America. I live and work in the United States. I have gone to Germany only on vacation.

And therefore, I'm German? According to your logic, LivLuv, I am. But I'm not and if you look at my above statements, it doesn't make any sense for me to going around claiming that I am German.

 

[yolland]

Did she say that she was born in the Netherlands? Did she say that she had a Dutch passport? Did she say that she has lived there? Did she say that she speaks Dutch regularly? No.

Ageeth, care to spell out in your own words what exactly you think "Dutch the way she thinks she is" amounts to?

And more to the point, why it matters?

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

Whatever works for you personally, I say.

If other people have issues with it, they can stuff it.

 

[Muggsy]

If I met some new people at school and they asked what I was, if I said "American" they'd laugh in my face!

I have always found that a little weird...

I have some questions:

Why do people from the USA call it "America" like it was the whole continent? cuz technically I'm american too , and why if they called it "america" dont say that they are "americans"

Why some people call Latin Americans "Mexicans" ?

 

[U2Girl1978]

I give up. This thread has made me so annoyed.

 

[Sicy]

I have a feeling this conversation can just go round and round and round........

 

[Ageeth]

Did she say that she was born in the Netherlands? Did she say that she had a Dutch passport? Did she say that she has lived there? Did she say that she speaks Dutch regularly? No.

Care to spell out in your own words what exactly you think "Dutch the way she thinks she is" amounts to?

no she said that she is more dutch then a lot of dutch people living in holland...
that is just weird..

 

[Ageeth]

i call it fake dutch

 

[LarryMullen's POPAngel]

 

[U2Girl1978]

no she said that she is more dutch then a lot of dutch people living in holland...
that is just weird..

You are obviously not reading her post correctly.

 

[WildHoneyAlways]

You may have dutch blood,your roots are from the netherlands, but you are definitely not that dutch the way you think you are.

And you are not in any position to tell her what she is.



Lies
Sicy

 

[clarityat3am]

I always make the distinction between being American (which is where I was born) and being Polish/German (which is my heritage). I have very strong leanings toward my Polish ancestry though, so I will almost always say I'm of Polish heritage and forget the rest. I don't think there was a denial of being American, but there is something to be said for having knowledge of and interest in your roots.