my friend is questioning his sexulality

[For Honor]

This is an interesting situation for me.


My friend, let's call him Jose (lol... it's late, and that seems funny for him.... sorry) has recently told me about his uncertainty of sexual orientation.


He says he's been dealing with this for a few years, and I can believe him. It's been a rough time, because he really isn't sure, he says, just what he is. He doesn't have a problem with being bi or gay, he is just frustrated in not knowing who he is.

I am good friends with Jose, and I respect him a lot as a person. It was "odd" having him say that, but I wasn't too surprised, and essentially it doesn't change how I think about him, considering all that it implies. There is one thing I am concerned about, though.

I like Jose a lot, he's a great guy. But I am not... I don't fancy men. I do not have much of an issue with homosexuality, honestly, just as long as I am not involved. It doesn't do anything for me. But that is who I am, and I respect that, as I respect other people being who they are.


The concern is, I hope Jose doesn't see our friendship as me being very nice to him, as in, I don't want to lead him on by being considerate and mature about this and secular. I still would like to maintain friendship with him, and even though specifics might change based on his future actions, he is still Jose.

But I just don't want to seem like I am open to having a "relationship" with Jose, because I'm not.



I suppose the best thing is to be upfront about that from the beginning, and that sort of is the bottome line


But it is a touchy subject around most, like Jose says. I still want to be friends, but I'm wary....



I say this because I can see myself as coming across as possibly appearing gay within the context of my school.

I dress well
I don't hit on girls excessivly
I don't do a lot of the typical male flamboyant stuff, like
Listening to rap or heavy metal, etc
I'm not a jock
I am in art
I have a wide variety of friends
I don't openly have a girlfriend
etc, etc.


The list goes on, but I'm not the typical male teenager. (which is in fact my best quality, I believe)


The reason I elaborated on this part is because It's happened before to me - I've sort of lead people on when I didn't want to. It is kind of weird when a friend feels one way about you and you don't reciprocate that. (And in one instance, it sort of sucks, because the girl is now "indefinitely upset with me" because I..... didn't.... um..... feel the same way about her)


Nevertheless.....

I care about Jose a lot, but I don't want that to be misinterpreted. I want to support him through his times of.... self discovery, but I don't want to get so involved that he attaches to me to strongly. Conversely, he is a good person, and I wouldn't mind having a friend of his caliber, regardless of his sexual orientation. Just as long as we stay "plutonic".

A very small part of me is tempted to totally go into preacher-mode about how females are (body, and mind, and mind!). But really, I understand it is his choice. And I don't know how I feel in regards to "is one homosexual from birth, or is it a choice" thing...... (I guess I feel it is more a personal choice than a birthright.... but that's not the point yet).




But I wonder if it is within my station to advocate for heterosexuality? I mean, it is what I feel is right for myself.


What I am trying to say is, would it be right to suggest heterosexuality, as in, is it okay for me to slightly push him in that direction? Or should I be secular and independant as a friend could be?

I don't know what is best for the situation. I suppose there it is a matter of my defiinition for a good friend;

(harshly and crudely put) would a good friend let his friend go gay?
Or would a good friend allow his friend a completley free frame of mind?



It's not quite like "would a good friend let someone drive drunk", or do drugs, or commit a crime.


According to my personal definition, being gay isn't a crime or a bad thing. I don't prefer it, and I think that being heterosexual is the more natural and "better" way to be. And maybe I have a slight prejudice against it, I don't know.



I think the best thing is perhaps to state where I stand, my own personal views about homosexuality, say my peice, and that's all. Other than that, I believe that being a good friend entails sticking with someone no matter what, accepting people. And I definitilye have respect for loyalty...


So I guess my general issues for discussion are:

How should a friend act in my situation
- completely secular acceptance
- sligt push for personal belief
- a mix of both
- something else

How can I still be friends plutonically with someone who is possibly turning towards homosexuality?




----------------------------


And as an aside, another issue came to mind. Jose is definitely someone that would be good in a marriage, yet I can see where his homosexual nature might come from. I wonder why it is that someone of such quality is turned away from heterosexual relationships? I know Jose is more or less a sensative person, but I consider myself sensative in some ways, too. Speculating, I can see Jose as someone who has had a lot of confidence issues, and his sensativity may have been misused or abused over the years, but that is speculation purely.

But it is odd....
I think it is a highschool thing, really, but Jose as a person is the ideal kind of guy you would want in a more or less exclussive relationship. But he is not the typical male teenager. I suppose he may be a little shy, but that not that big of a deal. I'm shy in some ways. Anyhow... it is strange that such a caliber person does not receive more attention from the ladies. But I think that a lot of people in my school are a bit shallow..... cliques and status are clearly defined, and it is a very wealthy district, so there is a lot of competition and status play all over...



And perhaps this is the issue: Since no one acknowledges and respects Jose's qualities, he ponders turning homosexual in hopes of finding someone to better understand him? But even there, I don't see him as understanding his own self worth... it's strange.

This last few paragraphs especailly are speculation and theory, and are sort of just as an aside, my own crazy mind working and thinking here. The main part is above, and if you read this post, that's what I hope to really generate a response. But any comments will be great.

 

[For Honor]

One last thing, I think a big part of the ablity to choose things in life is choosing who you love, because love is not an emotion, it's a choice (that is more a personal belief and I do't know how it fits into this situation yet)

Also, about Jose, I see him as being someone who is emotionally hurt right now, and that makes me wonder about his decision rearding homosexuality. It doesn't seem, yet, that his decision is pure, but that it is more out of social inacceptance - Jose was not one to get along with his peers, always an outcast, and perhaps that sort of mantra of "you are different than us" has made it seem justifiable and perhaps "right" to consider that he is gay.



the point is, I am concerned that he is considering himself gay because people have not socially accepted him, and therefore, he wants to fit in that role of being something socially unaccepted.
(He uses that term, and that is what made me think of this)

It would be different if he said he's been feeling a certain way, and worries about how society might think of him.


But the way he states things to me, it sounds as though he is putting the cart before the horse; since many people have not accepted him, I wonder if Jose rationlized that in his mind as "I must therefore be different in some way". It is almost like making an excuse.....




I don't know, it just seems.... I just get the notion, or sense that it's not really about being gay for Jose. I think it's just about wanting to be close to someone, wanting some love, attention maybe.

I know I am going well out of my jurisdiction, and doing a lot of psychological blabbering that is mosttly theory and assumptions, but I just get that sense from this situation. If I am wrong, then I don't have a problem with that. I am just concerned for Jose, in that he might be making his decision out of fear or perhaps trying to avoid pain.

(I'm not saying all gay people are that way, no. This is specific to Jose. I don't even know if he is homosexual or not, and neither does he)


but even the fact that he is uncertain, lingering, that is interesting...


Perhaps, at the appropriate time, I will share my thoughts with him about this new topic - that maybe it is not about being homosexual, maybe the root of this has to do with other things.




All I know is that the enviroment I live in can be very harsh on people. It has made me stronger in my beliefs and principles, but I have seen it break other people down (again, I am not saying that homosexual people a "broken down by society", I do not believe that to be true), (nor do I assume myself superior because of my beliefs, whatever they may be), (broken down as in, peppered with self doubt and delusions that come from such forms of doubt and low self esteem). But in regards to this situation here, I am deeply curious as to just what this is all about.




And I understand, too, that it is not entirely my business.
Like above, I think my role in regards to Jose is to be a good friend for him, and stick with him no matter what, which I indend on doing.

But also as a good friend, I think I will do my best to try and undersand as best I can just what is going on here. I am not sure yet that he knows, but perhaps our discussions will lead to more revelations.

But if not, then, like I said, I will still be friends with Jose.

 

[unforgettableFOXfire]

You don't have to be gay to be his friend. I know this isn't an issue for you, as you say, but you shouldn't worry about leading him on or something... just because he might be gay/bi doesn't mean he's interested in you. If he is, you've got to be right out there with him, don't mince words because that would be leading him on, but don't be cruel... be diplomatic. 'I'm your friend, I can help you figure this stuff out and deal with it, but exploring it is something you have to do on your own, just be safe, but I like women and I know that's something that isn't going to change for me, you have to find out what's best for you'.

A close second would be this; don't try to push him in any specific direction. He's heard all the 'women are natural' 'being gay is a sin' arguments from tv and the church, he's probably asking you because he thinks you can add more to the equation than that. Telling him 'I like women because...' doesn't really help him. Have you ever actually tried explaining why you get turned on by women and why you don't by men? It's not something you can go in blind and just wing it. if you say something like 'I've come to understand that women are what's natural for me, and that might be different for you or it might not' would probably be the supportive thing to say. Then you can talk about how your experiences have led you to this point, but how you never really had an attraction to men and so it never really was an issue for you (both nature and nurture, cover both bases).

Would a good friend let his friend go gay? Or would a good friend allow his friend a completley free frame of mind?

A good friend will let his friend be whomever he desires and still remain friends; even if that friend later decides it was a mistake and changes back. Friendship is about accepting people's qualities that make you uncomfortable just as much as it is the qualities you really like. You shouldn't be friends with someone just because they have a green car or a badass mohawk, so why would it make any difference what their sexuality is? Like you say; loyalty through thick and thin. Don't dilute yourself into thinking that standing by him won't cause problems for you, though. If it becomes a public matter, people (the ignorant pretentious slugs, anyway) will probably make your social life hell and treat you like a pariah for being friends with a gay guy and will probably talk with one another about how you're gay too and are probably having gay sex with someone. Of course, the fact that they're contemplating all the gay possibilities should say a lot about them, but that's another debate altogether. That being said, loyalty to those who matter, and those who don't can fuck off because their opinions shouldn't govern your life.

Jose as a person is the ideal kind of guy you would want in a more or less exclussive relationship.

This whole paragraph that I took the quote from seems to indicate that he's highly mature in the emotional and intellectual sense... for his age group, anyway. Highschool students aren't looking for a nice guy to settle down with. Highschool students like drama, and games where they can exert social pressures on people and move themselves up the ladder in their clique. Sure, maybe there's a nice girl there who is just as lonely as you think Jose is, but maybe there's not... Who knows. I'm not sure if that will lead a person to explore other 'options' so to speak, but I sincerely doubt it acts in any way to prevent them from exploring those options; so your speculation seems plausible. From my experience, it is intensely frustrating to possess the qualities that people say they want, and then have them continue to ignore you. For me, it was never something that caused me to have great greif over my sexuality, but I think it did for one of my friends (I don't know for sure though, as I never talked to him about it, mostly because he moved *shrug*).


As for taking up homosexuality for a hobby or something... well, not a hobby lol... because it's socially unacceptable and he's socially unaccepted and therefore its a good match... that's a bad reason to do it, and will lead him down a long path of depression. If he's gay, he finds men sexually attractive, that'll likely be the end of that. If he doesn't find men sexually attractive, then he's got some weird fetish driven by his desire to stick it to the man (in the figurative, non-sexual sense) and any sort of 'taboo' would float his boat... I dunno... punk rock girls (real ones, none of this avril lavigne/emo/linkin park/the used shit), biker chicks, foreigners, anything considered 'deviant' but not outright unacceptable would be a safer path to start out on if that's really a concern... I'm not sure what to say about that one... I don't know him, and am not talking to him and advising him... I don't know if encouraging him to experiment is a good idea if he's doing it for the wrong reasons... he could very well make his life worse that way. Make sure he's genuinely concerned about his life, and not just about enduring the short-term of highschool. You can deal with highschool without being so elaborate as to take up a gay persona for 3 years, as if you can clap your hands and simply mix back into your town's populace as a heterosexual once highschool is over. If its something that will govern the rest of his life, then okay, if its a short term thing, bad. Either he likes the cock and needs to come to terms with the fact that society is going to give him a rough time for the rest of his life, and he needs your help enduring - or he's a schemer, and is trying to get you to collaborate on a clever but short-sighted (and highly self-destructive) ruse. This is something that needs to be determined above all; and if it turns out to be the second, the ruse, don't help him. Tell him you'll be there for him for anything else, but you're not going to take part in this charade because it's going to hurt him and you can't accept responsibility in hurting him like that.

 

[myusernamehere]

It sounds more like you're more concerned about what others will think of you being his friend rather than what they think of him.

Or maybe I'm reading too much into your post.

How can I still be friends plutonically with someone who is possibly turning towards homosexuality?

Same as you always were. I've known girls before and after they "came out" and they didn't suddenly miscontrue our friendship once they came out.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

To be brutally honest, I don't think you have any right to "advocate heterosexuality". He has to come to terms on his own w/ whetever issues he is having. It must be extremely difficult and painful for him, but I think all you have the right to do is to be there as his friend to support him and accept him for who he is.

I think most people want that from a friend-we don't always get it, but that's life. A friend allows you to be who you are and doesn't judge you-an ideal friend does that -unless you're endangering your life or really hurting yourself in some other fashion.

Yes of course friends can have romantic or sexual feelings for you that aren't reciprocated, but no more so for gay than for straight people. My feeling is that you leave that whole issue alone for now and just be supportive. Maybe try to talk to him about going to see a counselor to talk to, if he'd be open to something like that.

 

[dandy]

To be brutally honest, I don't think you have any right to "advocate heterosexuality". He has to come to terms on his own w/ whetever issues he is having. It must be extremely difficult and painful for him, but I think all you have the right to do is to be there as his friend to support him and accept him for who he is.

I think most people want that from a friend-we don't always get it, but that's life. A friend allows you to be who you are and doesn't judge you-an ideal friend does that -unless you're endangering your life or really hurting yourself in some other fashion.

Yes of course friends can have romantic or sexual feelings for you that aren't reciprocated, but no more so for gay than for straight people. My feeling is that you leave that whole issue alone for now and just be supportive. Maybe try to talk to him about going to see a counselor to talk to, if he'd be open to something like that.

 

[Laura M]

The concern is, I hope Jose doesn't see our friendship as me being very nice to him, as in, I don't want to lead him on by being considerate and mature about this and secular. I still would like to maintain friendship with him, and even though specifics might change based on his future actions, he is still Jose.

I care about Jose a lot, but I don't want that to be misinterpreted. I want to support him through his times of.... self discovery, but I don't want to get so involved that he attaches to me to strongly. Conversely, he is a good person, and I wouldn't mind having a friend of his caliber, regardless of his sexual orientation. Just as long as we stay "plutonic".

A very small part of me is tempted to totally go into preacher-mode about how females are (body, and mind, and mind!). But really, I understand it is his choice. And I don't know how I feel in regards to "is one homosexual from birth, or is it a choice" thing...... (I guess I feel it is more a personal choice than a birthright.... but that's not the point yet).


What I am trying to say is, would it be right to suggest heterosexuality, as in, is it okay for me to slightly push him in that direction? Or should I be secular and independant as a friend could be?

(harshly and crudely put) would a good friend let his friend go gay?
Or would a good friend allow his friend a completley free frame of mind?

According to my personal definition, being gay isn't a crime or a bad thing. I don't prefer it, and I think that being heterosexual is the more natural and "better" way to be. And maybe I have a slight prejudice against it, I don't know.


I think the best thing is perhaps to state where I stand, my own personal views about homosexuality, say my peice, and that's all. Other than that, I believe that being a good friend entails sticking with someone no matter what, accepting people. And I definitilye have respect for loyalty...


So I guess my general issues for discussion are:

How should a friend act in my situation
- completely secular acceptance
- sligt push for personal belief
- a mix of both
- something else

How can I still be friends plutonically with someone who is possibly turning towards homosexuality?

I am always confused when people say they have nothing against gay people. It's like a protestant saying to me they have nothing against Catholics. That is a sure a sign you're talking to a biggot. Maybe it's where I live, though.

I have gay friends. I have lesbian friends. I am straight. We don't have to talk about our sexuality. We have a friend who has always went out with girls and now at the age of 26 she has a boyfriend. My gay friend was surprised at this but as I said to him I really didn't care and was quite excited to hear about him. We like her for her, not because of the person she is dating. None of my lesbian friends have ever tried anything on with me, just because I'm a female doesn't mean they're going to want to go out with me. Jose proably doesn't want to go out with you and he probably doesn't think you being friendly means you'd like to go out with him either. If anyone came to me and told me they were gay, bi, whatever I really wouldn't care. They're still going to be the same person.

You're his friend?

Then what does it really matter what sexuality he is. You can't push someone towards being a heterosexual and why would it be your place anyway. I'm not going to tell my gay friend to be straight. He isn't going to tell me to start going out with girls.

In you're situation you should just be a friend to him, you don't need to preach to him, you don't need to tell him the advantages of going out with girls.

I am friends with lesbians. It's the same as being friends with anyone else. They aren't different people but the way you talk about them, maybe I'm being harsh and I'm sorry if I am, you think their sexuality changes them somehow.

Why are you even trying to think of a reason why he may be gay? I really don't understand that. As you say the environment you live in can be harsh on people. Think how much harsher it is for a gay person. I find it sad that my friends can't hold hands with their partner or kiss them or be affectionate in public when they are just as in love with someone as joe blogs and his partner.

 

[Laura M]

Re: Re: my friend is questioning his sexulality

sorry, i quoted myself

 

[Diemen]

This is an interesting situation for me.
How can I still be friends plutonically with someone who is possibly turning towards homosexuality?

Do you have any platonic female friends? If you do then you should be fine with Jose. Simply because someone may be attracted to people of your gender doesn't automatically mean they will be attracted to you. That much should be obvious. Otherwise everyone would be getting a lot more action.

If you think he may find you attractive, as long as you make your feelings on the matter clear everything should be fine.

 

[joyfulgirl]

Everyone has already made good points. You seem like a good friend and all you really have to do is tell him you're clear about your own sexuality and support him while he gets clear about his. If he's even questioning it, frankly, there's a strong chance he's gay. Please don't try to change him. If/when he admits that he's gay, encourage him to come out when he's ready. You can't encourage someone who's gay to be straight anymore than you can encourage someone who is straight to be gay.

And as others have said, you don't have to be gay to have gay friends. I am a straight woman with tons of gay and lesbian friends. I had lesbian roommates all through college and only one of them fell in love with me, lol, and here we are coughtwentypluscough years later and she and I are still close friends and she has a wonderful partner.

Your friend needs support--it's a critical time for him. If he is gay, how he is received coming out will have a lot to do with his self-esteem throughout his life so know that it is a very delicate time.

 

[For Honor]

That is a lot of great commentary, and I appreciate it all.


I have a tendancy for laying out a lot of what I think in regards to a subject, that is why I write so much, and often lead into personal speculation (in regards to my original posts)

-------


As far as Jose goes, we are both seniors in high school, and he has talked with me about how he never felt accepted by his peers, and that is what originally lead me to considering one of my theories about why he might be turning gay.


And when I say it like that, I know it sort of implies "Oh, he's "Gay" now, so I feel differently about him". And honestly, yes, it does change how I think about him. It would be a lie if I said I think about him exactly the same way. I'm sorry, I am just that way. I am judgemental, I admit. I make calculations all the time. But also honestly, I don't have an issue with people's sexuality. I, myself, don't really see being homosexual as a personal option for myself.

-----


I brought up the question of "advocating heterosexuality" because I was unsure of the merits of such a thing. As I was typing, I figured I would get some responses saying that you shouldn't try to push things on other people. And like wise, your opinions about a real friend do not change on sexuality.


For the record, I base my friendships of substance on personal character. As I mentioned before, I believe Jose is a man of great personal character, so all the more reason for me to stay friends with him. And as ~unforgettableFOXfire~ mentioned, I believe a lot of high school is sort of BS, and we get along so well, Jose and I, because I believe we are both mature about things and don't buy into the drama, etc. In fact, if I were gay, I think Jose would be a great catch. But I'm not.



as I sort of mentioned before, one of my main concerns, and though it can come off as being nosy and/or overstepping my station, is that Jose might be doing this out of a debilitated confidence/self esteem. I brough that up because I have already in my life seen some powerful examples of what can happen to people in positions of low self love/acceptance, etc. (I am again not saying that being gay is a result of low self esteem. I am talking, speculating, in regards to this current situation with Jose.)


All the more reason, then for me to stick by a friend of mine. I have huge issues with loyalty, and generally speaking, it takes a lot for me to stop being friends with someone. Oh.... and one thing I am not concerned about is my own image in high school....... that is a whole other story, and I'm glad to share it, but i don't think it is neccesary. I have friends from all parrts of the spectrum, all the cliques so to say. And I don't think it would be false to say that I am a bit of an outcast myself, mostly because I do not cling to a clique, as most people in my high school do. Especially in this environment, (a mostly white, rich, suburban area, mostly republican too)[ SIZE=1](...though I think it is fair to say I am not of the rich majority, for as far as stigmas and stereotypes go, I reside in a mobile home and don't have cable...)[/size], there is a lot of gay in this area tension, and at school. A lot of people say:

"That's gay" to describe something that they don't like, or someone who they don't like.... I personally dislike that.


-----------


Also, it has been a very tough time for Jose, he tells me. I do not spend a great deal in of time with him, so I cannot know for sure, and that's why I say I speculate some things. But he has expressed (though he is one to say less and think more) it being dificult times lately, especially from some of the reactions he has gotten. He says some people have been acting weird towards him now, after he mentioned it. Even when revealing it to me, he was very, very, very cautious- to the point where I knew what was coming before he said it, and I basically understood it was coming long before he said the words (regarding to the specific conversation. I would not have neccesarily expected him to be homosexual, so to say).




I don't know... a deal of this is preliminary analysis. But...... I am concerned for his well being, and that is the bottom line. Like I said, and you ddon't have to believe me if you don't want to, taht is okay, but I really don't have an issue with Jose possibly being homosexual. I just have a lot of .... conviction when it comes to people doing things out of being wounded/hurt/fear/emotionally trying times/low self esteem, etc.


That being said, I don't want to go outside of my realm of juridiction.


So yes, I will of course be friends with Jose. That will not change unless his inner character begins to change. Be this harsh or not, I have learned many times the lesson of choosing who you are friends with.. my father is the ultimate example of such a thing. So, yes, there is some of "i don't want to make a mistake" in regards to myself, I admit that. I am being sincere and honest. I look out for myself. But I have a genuine and honest concern for Jose. I respect him a great deal as a person, as a human being, and as a friend.


Whichever way the winds blow, I hope Jose can get through this period and understand what he needs to understand. He is a queit person, and thinks deeply, like myself, which is a quality I like about him. As another speculation, I wonder if he has trouble expressing himself.... Nevertheless, thankyou for all your comments.




In all reality, I just want to do what is best for the situation, to be detached for a moment. My self, in my role, and being the person I would like to be, I will stay loyal and true to Jose, because I resepect him and consider him a good friend. I would also like to be there for support if I should have such an oppertunity. But if he happens to go down a path of self destruction, then I will have no choice but to distance myself, because indeed I have no control over another persons actions or thoughts. Again, this paragraph is from a very detached standpoint.

And one more time, let me say that I do not equate being homosexual as "a path of self destruction". I am saying that because at the present moment I am unclear of means of Jose's current situation.

Like I said before, as long as Jose is still Jose, he is my friend. Jose is my friend. Unless Jose changes drastically for the worse, in regards to the kind of person he is, and regardless of orientation, then Jose is F.H's friend.

I guess that is the simplest way to put all this.







I must express my gratitude again, because as I often do, I write and it helps me to find the answer. All your comments have allowed me to think of things from even more different perspectives, and I really appreciate that.



If there is one thing I'm pretty good about, that is generating an atmosphere of stability. I'm fairly consistent, and I like being there for people. (and I hope it doesn't sound like I am too self righteous from some of my posts here on interference, because sometimes I write many words about things. But really, I do tthat in an attempt to express the situation clearly and try to take the best course of action in regards to that situation). As I was saying... I can generate a sense of stability, and I would greatly enjoy the privledge of being a consistancy in Jose's time of change/confusion/personal development, etc.


I will keep this thread updated as long as it needs to be. But I really appreciate it all, because it helps me understand the situation, and how to play my part in it all.

 

[For Honor]

platonic

Yeah, I've spelt that wrong for a long time...
"platonic relationships"..... okay, got it.


and sorry if my posts seem really long. I just don't know how to write out all the information in any other way. And I guess I rehash some thiungs a lot. But it's like an abstract way of thinking, I guess, so I appreciate it if you bear with me on that.

Thanks

 

[unforgettableFOXfire]

My only suggestion is that his 'path to self-destruction' may be induced, that is to say made more severe and complicated, when people he considers friends don't stick by him. If people start abandoning him, expect him to harbour a little bit of hostility, and fear of persecution. That isn't 'him changing', that's just him reacting to his specific circumstances, and he'll likely get back to being normal old Jose in due time, after the period of adjustment where everyone kind of shifts uneasily until they find their respective ways to be comfortable with the change... Only because people don't like change, though, and not necessarily because of the specific change that's occuring. It's highschool, after all, and people 'not being friends anymore' can come from something as simple as changing hair colour... this is fairly significant, and people will react differently and possibly outrageously. It shouldn't be a big deal, but some people will make it a big deal, and that won't be easy for him to cope with... even if he's withdrawn or defensive or maybe even aggressive in this time, all you ought to do is exercise a little more patience than usual. The same principled man will be there under the bristling spines. I can't be sure he'll act that way, that's entirely dependant on how people treat him, but it's something to watch out for if people start treating him poorly.

 

[Mullen4Prez]

you type alot

 

[Muggsy]

I am in art

I don't know why people think that... if it were so all my bfs would be gay

well... I tried to read all the posts (I don't speak english so I get a little confused with long posts) but I have read some good stuff here. It seems that your loyalty is been tested and I can understand that, but I'm sure you're a good friend and you're living in certain way the changes that Jose is facing right now.

If I had a girlfriend in the same situation I wouldn't worry about if she would be interested on me eventually (if that happens I would treat her the same way as a male friend who's hitting on me, probably I would lost her friendship but I would be sincere then). But I would worry about how is she facing those changes and if she will be accepted by her family and the other people. I think that your friend is very brave when you say that he's open to the options and that's a good thing, if he accepts himself he would take a big step in his life and it would be easier for him to be happy and have good and healty relationships.

 

[For Honor]

Re: Re: my friend is questioning his sexulality

I don't know why people think that... if it were so all my bfs would be gay

Actually, Jose isn't in art, but I am- go figure. I brought up that "stereotype" or perhaps prejudiced in order to emphisize the stereotypes/prejudices/etc in this area here. In all honesty, I do not "associate" are with being homosexual. But at the same time, I can see why that stereotype has been but in place.


Thank you for taking the time to read through my posts.
I realize now that I should probably not write so much -- when I read over what I wrote, I get impatient and irratated... I don't like to read long posts.

I don't like double standards, either... so I will see what I can do about the length of my writing...

 

[For Honor]

you type alot

That is true... but I don't know if it is a good thing or not. I don't really like to, and I know I don't favor reading long posts myself, generally speaking.

Maybe I should separate my blocks/ chunks of thought through more, yet smaller, posts... It just seems like a mess sometimes, and sometimes I am afraid to go back and read what I have written


As always, I apprecaite anyone who takes the time and effort to try to figure out what I am trying to say.

 

[For Honor]

My only suggestion is that his 'path to self-destruction' may be induced, that is to say made more severe and complicated, when people he considers friends don't stick by him. If people start abandoning him, expect him to harbour a little bit of hostility, and fear of persecution. That isn't 'him changing', that's just him reacting to his specific circumstances, and he'll likely get back to being normal old Jose in due time, after the period of adjustment where everyone kind of shifts uneasily until they find their respective ways to be comfortable with the change... Only because people don't like change, though, and not necessarily because of the specific change that's occuring. It's highschool, after all, and people 'not being friends anymore' can come from something as simple as changing hair colour... this is fairly significant, and people will react differently and possibly outrageously. It shouldn't be a big deal, but some people will make it a big deal, and that won't be easy for him to cope with... even if he's withdrawn or defensive or maybe even aggressive in this time, all you ought to do is exercise a little more patience than usual. The same principled man will be there under the bristling spines. I can't be sure he'll act that way, that's entirely dependant on how people treat him, but it's something to watch out for if people start treating him poorly.

Yes, I think I will show some patience.
I haven't spoken with Jose in a while about this, so it will be good to talk about it with him again. I am guessing he is doing alright.

For some reason, he said he couldn't wait until tomorrow - Monday. Apparently things would be better by then. Since he is more or less private person, I didn't pry to figure out what he meant, other than the simple "what do you mean by that?".


I can only hope that things have gone well for him, and that his expereinces in revealing and discovering himself are respected by others. And by himself, too.

 

[For Honor]

Well, I ran into Jose again a few hours ago, and he had a rough weekend. He was getting a bit teary, and his mom sort of wanted to know what was up.

But since this was the first time that he brought this up, he wasn't taken too seriously.



One thing that is hurting him is that he wanted to have the ideal family, with a wife and children and all that. His pain here is something that I don't know completely, but, I can understand what it woul d be like if I had to cancel my dream of the same thing.... So that is undoubteldy tough on him.

What is great about Jose is that he is very conscientious (sp??) of you, and I really like that about him. He is more considerate than many people I know, including women and relatives. It is actually pretty amazing, because he reminds me of myself so much, but I guess he is going down a different road.

One thing is for sure, I really would like to keep him as a friend, and there is a small chance we might end up going to the same university, so that would be great.


I really wonder, in this rugged world of high school in which we have lived, if Jose just needs to find the right person. I don't really mind if it is a guy or a girl, really, but he deserves someone who respects his traits. He reminds me of my father in that respect... Although, unlike Jose, my father is an incurable fanatic of women....... (perhaps that is where I get it from ) My dad is courteous and subdued in his affairs, and he is certainly a sensative type, but his.... preferances.... are.... um..... crystal clear......)



Nevertheless, Jose's qualities are really good, and I wonder if he has never been respected properly. I know I have not been in my highschool, because I am not one to go around "like a playa" and do the typical and accepted high school things. Jose is the same way.

In my conversation with him, he seeme to indicate this wasn't a phase, but at the same time, I was not clear if he had made up his mind about being one way or another. I think perhaps even though he has thourhg about this seriously for some time, he is not quite sure yet. Or perhaps there is no fine line, and he is just bisexual.


Either way, I'm sure down the road he will find someone good, as long as he refuses to be taken advantage of. He is sensative, as I am, but I wonder if he has the proper amount of Pride to withstand things. And that worries me....

 

[For Honor]

To be selfish for a post (well, I am always self indulgent in my posts..... )

this whole situation with Jose has..... oddly enough........ really reinforced my views about relationships. Gay or straight, people need to know what to look for, really.

Relationships don't just happen, they are a lot of work. But if you find the right one, then it is profound.



And it..... it is like this..........
I don't need to have my picturesque wonderful relationship and wedding and family, but I really want to find someone who is the best person for me, and that person that I am the best person for.

I can't erotically love someone who is not female, it's just not hapening for me. I can agree that a man is attractive, I guess I am just not really the kind of guy who considers homosexuality. I don;t that is better or worse, I just realize now I am that way.

And for whatever reason, a woman's face is .....
well, I don't know....
I am a person who likes to "look into things", so I guess a woman's face, in my book, is the ultimate. Definitions of beauty may vary, but...... I know at least what I want. When a girl can look at me and I can see into her eyes, into her soul perhaps, and know that she feels the same way about me the way I feel about her...... I think that is what I really want. Something so honest that it simply resonates, and is understood.

I'm not going to find that just by walking up to a random lady, ( I don't expect), but on the deepest level, that is what I hope for.



And in all honesty, I hope Jose can find that same thing with someone. I hope everyone can.


Regardless of what my zodiacs or prophecies may say, I have an afinity for monogamy. I don't really know why or how... But it just seems like the highest form of... goodness or beauty or whatever.


I say this, because in the beginning, I was taken aback by Jose. But in the big picture of life, all things are so fleeting, and few things are timeless. Most things don't really matter, but to me, if one person can find another person that they really love and cherrish and want to be with forever- and that same feeling is returned- then everything else doesn't really matter.


I am still not sure just how I feel about love, but I have felt it's power knock me around, and I do not deny it. I question it, but I don't deny it.