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Old 09-20-2011, 03:31 PM   #241
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Quote:
Originally Posted by deep View Post

in 1992 DTDA was a moderate compromise for Bill Clinton.
He paid a huge price for bungling it.


that's a bit more accurate.

as of 2010, DADT was a stupid and senseless policy.
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Old 09-20-2011, 03:50 PM   #242
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in 2010 it appears stupid because there are no legit arguments about gay men serving

why, because DADT proved that a person's orientation dose not affect their ability to be good soldiers

so yes, the spot light was put on the phobes, where it belonged.

that could not have happened without DADT, it may seem moderate to you. but a flat out repeal in 92 was not really possible at all
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Old 09-20-2011, 04:15 PM   #243
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Clinton gave us DADT and DOMA.

by the time Obama is done, both should be gone.

what DADT did do was create a climate of fear and ask for officers to report on other officers. it might have been well-intentioned, and i think it was, but i think it did more harm than good. it was less a stepping stone than i think you are giving it credit for.

it also gave people like McCain a "compromise" to point towards as evidence of a "policy that is/was working" that likely delayed us and made us one of the few western nations to actively discriminate against gay men, and women, in the military.
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Old 09-20-2011, 05:39 PM   #244
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The bill moved through Congress on a legislative fast track and met with overwhelming approval in both houses of the Republican-controlled Congress, passing by a vote of 85–14 in the Senate[27] and a vote of 342–67 in the House of Representatives.[28] It was signed into law by President Bill Clinton on September 21, 1996.
congress gave us DOMA and if Clinton vetoed it
it would have been resoundingly overridden and made the Democrats the permanent minority party


also if Bush 1 had won in 92 there would have been no gays in the service at all
the policy was to ask and to tell
and not to permit any gays in at all.
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Old 09-20-2011, 07:01 PM   #245
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It is striking (in a good way) to look back and recall how differently debates about gays in the military often proceeded back then. I was an undergrad at a university with a large ROTC battalion at the time. Then as now there were all the arguments about unit cohesion, male bonding and so forth, but in the early 90s it was also culturally and socially quite acceptable (and often done) to argue that gays are sick, perverted, psychically weak and unstable men "unfit" for service. Often this was lumped together with sentiments against women in the military (those too have softened considerably, partly due to the Iraq War)--I remember in particular a cartoon poster popular at the time with the theme of "what allowing gays on the battlefield leads to," depicting a long line of severely physically disabled people and...women (all depicted like Betty Boop; tiny frail-looking bimbos save absurdly large breasts and eyelashes) descending on a recruiting center demanding their right to fight. The message was that all this bleeding-heart kowtowing to whiny pansy-ass minorities was castrating our military. I think that said a lot about where American culture was on gender roles at the time, and I'm not sure that backdrop compares easily to other Western countries.

But I think the point about DADT creating a climate of paranoia and ratting on each other is also a strong one. It may well have established some expectations and assumptions that will create problems in their own right moving into the near-term future.
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Old 09-21-2011, 09:27 AM   #246
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So glad to see this go and not see our military surrendering en masse around the globe.
-much in the same way marriages have not instantly fallen apart where same-sex marriage has been legalized.

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Old 09-21-2011, 11:08 AM   #247
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abc.com

By MARTHA RADDATZ (@martharaddatz)
Sept. 21, 2011

The young U.S. soldier who took the end of the military's "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" policy to share his experience of coming out to his father via YouTube said he now feels comfortable.

"It feels great. It's nice not having to look over your shoulder or worry about who you are talking to, Phillips told ABC News the day after "Don't Ask, Don't Tell" was officially repealed. "I never thought I'd be so comfortable with it. It's very supportive. Everybody's been so great."

Phillips, a 21-year-old airman stationed at the Ramstein Air Base in Germany, sat alone in front of a camera Tuesday, and under his YouTube handle "AreYouSurprised," called his father in Alabama to tell him that he was gay. In the clip, Phillips said it was "the hardest thing that gay guys will ever have to say.

"You promise you'll always love me? Period?" Phillips asked his father, his voice shaking. He took a beat, and then said it: "Dad, I'm gay. I always have been. I've known for … forever."

Describing how his heart was "beating like crazy," Phillips told his father that he did not want to tell him over the phone, but wasn't sure when he would see him again and didn't want him to find out any other way.

"I still love you son," his father was heard saying through the phone line. "It doesn't change our relationship -- and I always will, no matter what, all right? You are my son, and I am very proud of you."

For Phillips, even showing his face had taken months. He began his journey of coming out last April, posting anonymous YouTube videos while deployed near the Persian Gulf, seeking advice and support.

"I just want to share my journey and struggles with you," Phillips said in a clip posted in April. "I know there are a lot of people that will benefit from this. I don't want to sound selfish, but I made this for me -- so people can help me out … and say 'so when are you going to take the next step?'"

On Twitter, Phillips had described himself as a "military member in the closet, using social media to build up the courage to come out to family, girlfriend, friends and co-workers."

Now that "Don't Ask Don't Tell" has been repealed, Phillips, like many other enlisted men and women, can at last reveal his face, and cannot officially tell his fellow airman and commanding officers the truth. He told ABC News that he is happy that he has inspired others. He also said that now the whole family knows that he is gay.

As for Phillips' father, he told ABC News that he was not exactly thrilled that his son put the clip on YouTube -- but reiterated once again that he loves his son, and always will.

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Old 09-21-2011, 04:50 PM   #248
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^^^^^^^^^^
*sniffles*

so many stories like this....

it's a Beautiful day!

Good luck to all our officially coming out soldiers and other Arm Forces people!
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Old 09-21-2011, 07:00 PM   #249
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Good to see DADT repealed.

Amazing the paranoia among straight men of roving bands of gay barbarians, stopping by to anally gang-rape you at the first opportunity.

I swear, straight men are more obsessed with anal sex than gay men probably are.
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Old 09-22-2011, 02:34 PM   #250
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Maybe some of them just think they're irresistibly hot. And well of course gay men have no self control or selective taste.
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Old 10-02-2011, 06:59 PM   #251
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one can either put this under, too little, too late or better late, than never

Cain: I Should've Defended Gay Soldier From Boos At Debate | Fox News


Quote:
Republican presidential candidate Herman Cain said Sunday that he should not have stayed silent after the audience at a GOP debate booed a gay soldier serving in Iraq.

The Georgia businessman told ABC's "This Week" that it would have been "appropriate" for him to have defended the soldier. None of the candidates on stage at the Sept. 22 forum responded to the boos.

"In retrospect, because of the controversy it has created and because of the different interpretations that it could have had, yes, that probably -- that would have been appropriate," Cain said, when asked if he should have asked the audience to respect the soldier.

Read more: Cain: I Should've Defended Gay Soldier From Boos At Debate | Fox News


Separately, Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz., said that the GOP candidates at the debate should have defended the soldier. "The fact is we should honor every man and woman who is serving in the military and should in no way treat them with anything but the highest regard," he told CBS' "Face the Nation."

McCain added that the GOP candidates may have been thinking about how to respond to the soldier's question rather than paying attention to the booing. "I would bet that every Republican on that stage did not agree with that kind of behavior," he said.

Read more: Cain: I Should've Defended Gay Soldier From Boos At Debate | Fox News
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Old 10-02-2011, 07:18 PM   #252
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He should've defended my pizza from the Noid.
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Old 10-02-2011, 07:32 PM   #253
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oh, wait. i thought the candidates couldn't hear the boo's?

but this:

Quote:
"In retrospect, because of the controversy it has created and because of the different interpretations that it could have had, yes, that probably -- that would have been appropriate," Cain said, when asked if he should have asked the audience to respect the soldier.
is a POS apology. it's not one.
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Old 10-02-2011, 07:57 PM   #254
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So has the military fallen apart yet due to all the gayness now going on?
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Old 10-03-2011, 10:47 AM   #255
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So it's only because of the controversy and the "different interpretations" that it, um, could have had. Not because it was simply the right thing to do?
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Old 10-03-2011, 01:32 PM   #256
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regardless,
I put these things in the better late, than never, category
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Old 10-03-2011, 04:36 PM   #257
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Obama at the HRC:

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The 3,000 attendees at the dinner, which took place at the Washington Convention Center, gave the president multiple standing ovations when he touted the repeal of "don't ask, don't tell," hospital visitation rights for same-sex couples and spoke out against the bullying of LGBT youth.

The most electric reaction, however, came when Obama sharply criticized the GOP presidential candidates for staying silent when audience members at a debate booed a gay soldier who asked a question about DADT.

"We don't believe in the kind of smallness that says it's okay for a stage full of political leaders -- one of whom could end up being the president of the United States -- being silent when an American soldier is booed. We don't believe in that," said Obama to loud cheers and a standing ovation.

"We don't believe in standing silent when that happens. We don't believe in them being silent since. You want to be commander in chief? You can start by standing up for the men and women who wear the uniform of the United States, even when it's not politically convenient. We don't believe in a small America. We believe in a big America -- a tolerant America, a just America, an equal America -- that values the service of every patriot.We believe in an America where we’re all in it together, and we see the good in one another, and we live up to a creed that is as old as our founding: E pluribus unum. Out of many, one. And that includes everybody. That’s what we believe. That’s what we’re going to be fighting for. "

Obama HRC Speech 2011: President Talks Gay Rights At Human Rights Campaign Dinner

and Obama listed his LGBT accomplishments, which are significant:

Quote:

FEDERAL LEGISLATION SIGNED INTO LAW

1. Signed the Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, which expanded existing United States federal hate crime law to include crimes motivated by a victim’s actual or perceived gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability -- the first positive federal LGBT legislation in the nation's history
2. Repealed Don't Ask/Don't Tell
3. Signed the Ryan White HIV/AIDS Treatment Extension Act


POLICIES CHANGED

1. Reversed US refusal to sign the UN Declaration on Sexual Orientation and Gender Identity
2. Extended benefits to same-sex partners of federal employees in 2009 and, further, in 2010
3. Lifted the HIV Entry Ban
4. Issued diplomatic passports, and provided other benefits, to the partners of same-sex foreign service employees
5. Committed to ensuring that federal housing programs are open to all, regardless of sexual orientation or gender identity
6. Conceived a National Resource Center for Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual and Transgender Elders -- the nation's first ever -- funded by a three-year HHS grant to SAG
7.

Banned job discrimination based on gender identity throughout the Federal government (the nation's largest employer)
8. Eliminated the discriminatory Census Bureau policy that kept our relationships from being counted, encouraging couples who consider themselves married to file that way, even if their state of residence does not yet permit legal marriage
9. Instructed HHS to require any hospital receiving Medicare or Medicaid funds (virtually all hospitals) to allow LGBT visitation rights
10. Required all grant applicants seeking HUD funding to comply with state and local anti-discrimination laws that protect LGBT individuals
11. Adopted transgender recommendations on the issuance of gender-appropriate passports that will ease barriers to safe travel and that will provide government-issued ID that avoids involuntary "outing" in situations requiring ID, like hiring, where a gender-appropriate driver's license or birth certificate is not available
12. Extended domestic violence protections to LGBT victims
13. Extended the Family and Medical Leave Act to cover employees taking unpaid leave to care for the children of same-sex partners
14. Issued guidance specifically to assist LGBT tenants denied housing on the basis of sexual orientation or gender identity
15. Issued a National HIV/AIDS Strategy praised as "long-overdue" by the Task Force, Lambda and others
16. Issued guidance to 15,000 local departments of education and 5,000 colleges to support educators in combating bullying
17. Cut back authority to discharge under Don't Ask/Don't Tell from hundreds of generals to just 6 civilian appointees, effectively ending discharges while working toward a permanent end to the policy.
18. Led the fight that reversed a 2010 UN vote removing sexual orientation from the list of things people should not be killed for
19. Launched the first-ever national study of discrimination against members of the LGBT community in the rental and sale of housing
20. Determined that Section 3 of DOMA is unconstitutional
21. Determined that LGBT discrimination should be subject to a standard of "heightened scrutiny"
22. Stopped defending DOMA, leading to "dramatic changes across the country and the federal government in the way that lawyers and judges see legal challenges brought by LGBT people - and, slowly but surely, in the way that LGBT people are able to live their lives"
23. Filed an unprecedented brief detailing the history of discrimination faced by gay, lesbian and bisexual people in America, including by the federal government itself -- the single most persuasive legal argument ever advanced by the United States government in support of equality for lesbian, gay and bisexual people
24. Vacated a court order that would have deported a gay American's Venezuelan partner
25. Begun recognizing joint bankruptcy petitions filed by same-sex married couples
26. Endorsed the Respect for Marriage Act
27. Reduced the deportation threat faced by binational LGBT couples
28. Authorized military chaplains to perform same-sex weddings on or off military bases

eQualityGiving - Accomplishments by the Administration and Congress on LGBT Equality

and, on a personal note, it's impossible not to have an emotional reaction to something as heartfelt as this:

Quote:
"Together, we also have to keep sending a message to every young person in this country who might feel alone or afraid because they're transgender," he said. "They may be getting picked on or pushed around because they're different. We've got to make sure they know there are adults they can talk to, that they are never alone, that there is a whole world waiting for them, filled with possibility. ... And I want all those kids to know the president and the first lady is standing right by them every inch of the way. I want them to know we love them and care about them, and they're not by themselves."
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Old 02-28-2012, 03:29 PM   #258
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A homecoming photo of a U.S. Marine caught in a passionate lip-lock with his boyfriend has gone viral in the blogosphere after it was posted on Facebook.

The dramatic snapshot has drawn over 14,000 likes, and has received over 3,000 comments, since being uploaded to Facebook's Gay Marines group.

Blogger Joe. My. God. quotes Brandon Morgan, the Marine in the photo, as saying:

To everyone who has responded in a positive way. My partner and I want to say thank you. Dalan, the giant in the photo, can't believe how many shares and likes we have gotten on this. We didn't do this to get famous,or something like that we did this cause after 3 deployments and four years knowing each other, we finally told each other how we felt. As for the haters, let em hate...to quote Kat Williams, everyone needs haters, so let them hate. We are the happiest we have ever been and as for the whole PDA and kissing slash hugging in uniform...it was a homecoming, if the Sergeants Major, Captains, Majors, and Colonels around us didn't care...then why do you care what these random people have to say? In summation thank you for your love and support. I received a lot of friend requests off this. I don't just accept requests so if your request was because of this post message me and let me know. Goodnight all, and Semper Fi.



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Old 02-28-2012, 06:20 PM   #259
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Aw .

Anyone who hates that has no heart or romantic side, I think.
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Old 02-28-2012, 08:00 PM   #260
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i think it's sweet.
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