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Old 08-16-2012, 02:11 PM   #461
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the really dodgy thing is that Sweden refused to guarantee Ecuador that Assange would not be extradited to the US where he could face the death penalty, which is why Ecuador believes that Assange is the subject of political persecution which goes far beyond the alleged rape charges

the measures taken against Assange, for example even financially crippling his organisation etc., are incredibly extreme - hell they don't even do that to known organised criminal/drug gangs - and the ease with which they did that to Assange/Wikileaks is mind-blowing! why don't they fight proper crime that way?
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Old 08-16-2012, 05:34 PM   #462
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Originally Posted by mama cass
the really dodgy thing is that Sweden refused to guarantee Ecuador that Assange would not be extradited to the US where he could face the death penalty, which is why Ecuador believes that Assange is the subject of political persecution which goes far beyond the alleged rape charges

the measures taken against Assange, for example even financially crippling his organisation etc., are incredibly extreme - hell they don't even do that to known organised criminal/drug gangs - and the ease with which they did that to Assange/Wikileaks is mind-blowing! why don't they fight proper crime that way?
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Old 08-17-2012, 07:51 PM   #463
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That's EXACTLY what they should do.....otherwise this sets a very dangerous precedent and any foreign national who commits a crime can go into any embassy and ask for asylumn without facing justice.

Assange is a COWARD - if he's innocent like he says he is then let him have his day in court and prove his innocence. This act clearly proves that he's guilty.

I sincerely hope the British forces are storming the embassy as we speak....or are at least on the way.

GO SCOTLAND YARD!!
As far as I can gather Assange is an awful man, but even awful people are entitled to legal safeguards and the presumption of innocence.
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Old 08-17-2012, 08:00 PM   #464
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the really dodgy thing is that Sweden refused to guarantee Ecuador that Assange would not be extradited to the US where he could face the death penalty, which is why Ecuador believes that Assange is the subject of political persecution which goes far beyond the alleged rape charges

the measures taken against Assange, for example even financially crippling his organisation etc., are incredibly extreme - hell they don't even do that to known organised criminal/drug gangs - and the ease with which they did that to Assange/Wikileaks is mind-blowing! why don't they fight proper crime that way?
To be honest, I've always been slightly suspicious of Wikileaks, it seemed to emerge from nowhere and to do so within a remarkably short space of time - Assange and his acolytes seemed to me to be rather more interested in publicity and sensationalism than one would expect from such a website. If you had a big story about government misdoings, would you have gone to Wikileaks, where you'll be reading all about it on the front pages of newspapers within days, and probably have your cover blown - like what happened to the naive and callow Bradley Manning?

Cryptome.org, a rival website to Wikileaks, has been around for a lot longer precisely because it is careful and does not draw unwanted attention to itself - the opposite, if anything.
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Old 08-18-2012, 03:38 AM   #465
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To be honest, I've always been slightly suspicious of Wikileaks, it seemed to emerge from nowhere and to do so within a remarkably short space of time - Assange and his acolytes seemed to me to be rather more interested in publicity and sensationalism than one would expect from such a website. If you had a big story about government misdoings, would you have gone to Wikileaks, where you'll be reading all about it on the front pages of newspapers within days, and probably have your cover blown - like what happened to the naive and callow Bradley Manning?

Cryptome.org, a rival website to Wikileaks, has been around for a lot longer precisely because it is careful and does not draw unwanted attention to itself - the opposite, if anything.
if i remember correctly, Bradley Manning wasn't exposed by Wikileaks but actually by a guy he met on an internet forum whom he confided in, who then reported him...

never heard of cryptome - they must be doing a GREAT job of getting the information out there

eta - ha, they're actually mentioned in this link - i learn something new every day lol!

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology...er?INTCMP=SRCH

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The best-known example of the phenomenon is Adrian Lamo, a convicted hacker who turned informant on Bradley Manning, who is suspected of passing secret documents to WikiLeaks. Manning had entered into a prolonged instant messaging conversation with Lamo, whom he trusted and asked for advice. Lamo repaid that trust by promptly handing over the 23-year-old intelligence specialist to the military authorities. Manning has now been in custody for more than a year.

For acting as he did, Lamo has earned himself the sobriquet of Judas and the "world's most hated hacker", though he has insisted that he acted out of concern for those he believed could be harmed or even killed by the WikiLeaks publication of thousands of US diplomatic cables.

"Obviously it's been much worse for him but it's certainly been no picnic for me," Lamo has said. "He followed his conscience, and I followed mine."
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Old 08-18-2012, 03:47 AM   #466
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I've come along way from this post mama cass haha

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we were talking about this in my Media Law & Ethics class yesterday. i still can't stand Assange and i hate people who criticise the media for "not doing their job".

i've never known it to be a journalist's job to illegally hack into classified information and release it.
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Old 08-18-2012, 04:18 AM   #467
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I've come along way from this post mama cass haha
aha those jedi mind tricks worked then eh hahaha
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Old 08-19-2012, 09:47 AM   #468
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live updates on Julian Assange's appearance from the Ecuadorean Embassy in London just now...

the guy is right - look at the overwhelming response to Pussy Riot's conviction - do they not realise the same issues are at stake?

Julian Assange statement at Ecuadorean embassy - live | Media | guardian.co.uk

14:36 BST
That seems to be it for now. Assange has gone back inside but the window leading to the balcony remains open.

14:32 BST
Assange calls for the release of Bradley Manning, the alleged WikiLeaks source, describing him as one of the world's foremost political prisoners.

He goes on to refer to the jailing in Russia of members the feminist punk band, Pussy Riot.

"There is unity in the oppression. There must be absolute unity and determination in the response," adds Assange.

14:29 BST
Assange thanks Ecuador, its president and names various other Latin American states that have backed it in recent days.

He also addresses the US people and its government, saying to President Obama that the United States must stop its "witchhunt" against wikileaks.

"There must be no more foolish talk about prosecuting any media organisation, be it Wikileaks or the New York Times."

"The US war on whistleblowers must end"

14:25 BST
Wearing a crisp blue shirt and a red tie, Julian Assange has appeared on the balcony.

"I am here today because I cannot be there with you today," he says in a speech which is directed as much to the assembled crowds of supporters below as anyone else.

"But thank you for your resolve, for your generosity of spirit."

"On Wednesday night after a threat was made on this embassy and police descended on this embassy, you came out to watch over it."

Assange said that he could hear police "storming" up through the internal fire escapes of the embassy

He adds: "If the UK did not throw away the terms of the Vienna convention it was because the world was watching and the world was watching because you were watching."
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Old 08-19-2012, 10:27 AM   #469
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Thanks
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Old 08-19-2012, 03:05 PM   #470
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pussy riot is a joke, a bad joke

just shows how stupid and uninformed the general public really is.
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Old 08-19-2012, 04:24 PM   #471
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pussy riot is a joke, a bad joke

just shows how stupid and uninformed the general public really is.
no need to be insulting deep - i am neither stupid nor uninformed

what they did certainly doesn't warrant the consequences... Putin's reaction is totally out of proportion...

and fwiw, Amnesty etc. seem to think it's a pretty big deal
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Old 08-20-2012, 01:27 AM   #472
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...are you going to elaborate on that deep?

anyway:

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Old 08-20-2012, 06:26 AM   #473
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oh my god that is actually freaky!!

i remember that tv programme - Are You Being Served? now i'm REALLY showing my age lol!
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Old 08-20-2012, 07:06 AM   #474
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I'm not that old and I used to watch that show. Don't feel so bad
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Old 08-20-2012, 09:56 AM   #475
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Yes I did. You said that he probably thinks he won't get a fair trial - but he's not giving the Swedes the chance to prove him wrong
I find this argument quite laughable. Give them a chance to prove him wrong? If he's right, as many of us suspect, then it'll be too late for him.
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Old 08-20-2012, 02:04 PM   #476
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...are you going to elaborate on that deep?

anyway:
there are a lot of Russians that are being unfairly persecuted, prosecuted and incarcerated for non-criminal behavior.

pussy riot has been staging politically provocative impromptu performances about Russian political life in unusual locations, such as on top of a trolleybus or on a scaffold in the Moscow Metro.

however going into Moscow’s Cathedral of Christ the Saviour is much different.

Video: The 'punk prayer' that landed Pussy Riot in court - Telegraph

I think this action in any country would lead to arrest and prosecution. I think that was pussy riot's intention, they certainly wanted the publicity.


other people are having their homes raided, their computers confiscated, being jailed and having there assets seized

Putin's opponents feel the heat in Russia - Los Angeles Times

no one is even talking about that, all we are hearing about is these people that chose to go and desecrate a house of worship.
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Old 08-20-2012, 02:18 PM   #477
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I find this argument quite laughable. Give them a chance to prove him wrong? If he's right, as many of us suspect, then it'll be too late for him.

I won't call things laughable.

But, a lot of the conversation is quite silly around this whole situation. It seems that if people think they like Wikileaks, then Assange is a good guy and innocent of any charges.

Sweden, a western democracy is not capable of having a fair trail with the eyes of the world on it.

And Ecuador that has a horrible record with free press rights is the good guy.

http://www.amnesty.org.au/news/comments/26279/

Free Press Watch Archive - Global Journalist
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Old 08-20-2012, 04:03 PM   #478
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there are a lot of Russians that are being unfairly persecuted, prosecuted and incarcerated for non-criminal behavior.

pussy riot has been staging politically provocative impromptu performances about Russian political life in unusual locations, such as on top of a trolleybus or on a scaffold in the Moscow Metro.

however going into Moscow’s Cathedral of Christ the Saviour is much different.

Video: The 'punk prayer' that landed Pussy Riot in court - Telegraph

I think this action in any country would lead to arrest and prosecution. I think that was pussy riot's intention, they certainly wanted the publicity.


other people are having their homes raided, their computers confiscated, being jailed and having there assets seized

Putin's opponents feel the heat in Russia - Los Angeles Times

no one is even talking about that, all we are hearing about is these people that chose to go and desecrate a house of worship.
it's not really about desecrating a house of worship, they were protesting about Putin deviously trying to get the support of the Russian Orthodox Church i think...

i mean, didn't Jesus Christ himself hold a protest in a temple once when "unholy" dealings were going on?

Pussy Riot's Punk Prayer is pure protest poetry | Books | guardian.co.uk


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Punk Prayer, English version by Carol Rumens

(Chorus)

Virgin Mary, Mother of God, banish Putin, banish Putin,

Virgin Mary, Mother of God, banish him, we pray thee!

Congregations genuflect,

Black robes brag gilt epaulettes,

Freedom's phantom's gone to heaven,

Gay Pride's chained and in detention.

KGB's chief saint descends

To guide the punks to prison vans.

Don't upset His Saintship, ladies,

Stick to making love and babies.

Crap, crap, this godliness crap!

Crap, crap, this holiness crap!

(Chorus)

Virgin Mary, Mother of God.

Be a feminist, we pray thee,

Be a feminist, we pray thee.

Bless our festering bastard-boss.

Let black cars parade the Cross.

The Missionary's in class for cash.

Meet him there, and pay his stash.

Patriarch Gundy believes in Putin.

Better believe in God, you vermin!

Fight for rights, forget the rite –

Join our protest, Holy Virgin.

(Chorus)

Virgin Mary, Mother of God, banish Putin, banish Putin,

Virgin Mary, Mother of God, we pray thee, banish him!
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Old 08-20-2012, 04:11 PM   #479
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it's not really about desecrating a house of worship,
did you even watch the video??

their behavior is no way like that Jesus story or Martin Luther's actions

if Jesus or Martin Luther had pulled a stunt like they did no one would even know their names
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Old 08-20-2012, 04:32 PM   #480
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"Jesus" and "Martin Luther" are not nearly as catchy as "Pussy Riot."
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