WikiLeaks largest classified military leak

[MrsSpringsteen]

Wow. Um..

Anyway I think Assange might be an attention whore w/ issues who has little or no regard for the lives that he's potentially endangering. But I guess he's just saving the world from America, or something like that.

[Vincent Vega]

And again this conveniently ignores the fact that Wikileaks does indeed do a variety of things not to endanger lives by releasing such information.

[mama cass]

there was a good documentary on ITV1 UK tv last night, John Pilger's "The War We Don't See"... kind of eye-opening to hear some of the facts and figures confirmed, most of which people are aware of, if they are informed... John Pilger has been very vocal and active in his support of Julian Assange and wikileaks

in this age of so-called morality, where civilian deaths have now reached 90% in Iraq, compared to 70% in Vietnam, 50% in WW2 and 10% in WW1, wikileaks has a vital role to play in telling us what the hell is going on really... most of the leaks are things people know about or have suspected underneath...

bless you Mrs Springsteen LOL

[MrsSpringsteen]

lol? Well check out the ABC News investigative report from last night about his big ego and questions about what he has done with donated money. He kept messaging employees asking them who was leaking information about HIM to the media that he didn't want to get out. Isn't it ironic, don't you think? Unless ABC is in on the conspiracy against him Maybe they are, everyone else is I guess.

Maybe people should wait before turning this guy into some sort of idol

[Earnie Shavers]

Or maybe, just maybe, its entirely possible that you can be
WikiLeaks
Assange
at the same time.

[mama cass]

yeah i kind of think it's important not to throw the baby out with the bathwater at least...

but, for the record, i support Assange as well as wikileaks itself - i believe Assange is the victim of character assassination (fwiw, the allegations against him would not be classed as rape in the UK, being consensual but unprotected sex, and wouldn't even get a jail sentence in Sweden, just a fairly insignificant fine)... it makes a mockery of our justice system that he is behind bars without any charges having been made... his treatment is shocking indeed, and is clear abuse of the European Arrest Warrant - whatever happened to "innocent before being proven guilty" eh?

from yesterday's Guardian:

The case of Julian Assange has again put the European arrest warrant (EAW) in the spotlight (Report, 9 December). The EAW is a valuable and successful EU instrument, cutting the delays and red tape that in the past allowed major criminals to party beyond the reach of the law.

But the EAW is restricted to "the purposes of conducting a criminal prosecution", which must mean imminent charge followed by trial. If your reports are correct that the Swedish request for extradition of Assange under an EAW is "to face questioning" or for "interview", this would appear to conflict with the high court case of Asztaslos last February, which confirmed that it is not a legitimate purpose for an EAW to be used to conduct an investigation to see whether that person should be prosecuted.

Such issues do not come up only in high-profile EAW cases, but in its everyday implementation. That is why EU justice ministers last June called on national authorities not to misuse the EAW. Normal cross-border co-operation on collection of evidence or interrogation of suspects called "mutual legal assistance", using for example videoconferencing or a summons for temporary transfer of a suspect, should be used when more appropriate.

Some lack of care by the Swedish authorities seems to be indicated by the fact that the first EAW they issued against Assange omitted details necessary for a UK court to be able to check if the warrant fulfilled all the requirements. I urge the UK courts now to refuse to allow the Assange EAW to be a fishing expedition without a pending actual prosecution. EU rules should be respected so that the integrity of the EAW process is protected.

Sarah Ludford MEP

Liberal Democrat, London

[Vincent Vega]

Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen

lol? Well check out the ABC News investigative report from last night about his big ego and questions about what he has done with donated money. He kept messaging employees asking them who was leaking information about HIM to the media that he didn't want to get out. Isn't it ironic, don't you think? Unless ABC is in on the conspiracy against him Maybe they are, everyone else is I guess.

Maybe people should wait before turning this guy into some sort of idol

First of all, ABC is a channel in the US. Not so easy to simply check out when you are on the other side of the pond.
Second, there was no idolisation of Assange on my part at all. Don't know where you read that. All I was saying was that Wikileaks did, contrary to what you posted, make sure not to just throw out names into the public that could have endangered lives. They worked together with press and even the US government before making the cables available, and in that case as in those before blanked many names and other information. You said he had no regard for the lives, which was simply a wrong statement. Had he not had any regard, or Wikileaks as a whole for that matter, a lot more information would be public by now, and nothing would be blanked.

I don't see Assange as being the greatest person alive, and even would agree with you on the point that Assange's ego is a bit bloated. I think he has made a number of decisions that have not been helpful for wikileaks, which also led to the departure of key figures such as Daniel Domscheit-Berg.

[financeguy]

Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen

lol? Well check out the ABC News investigative report from last night about his big ego and questions about what he has done with donated money. He kept messaging employees asking them who was leaking information about HIM to the media that he didn't want to get out. Isn't it ironic, don't you think? Unless ABC is in on the conspiracy against him Maybe they are, everyone else is I guess.

Maybe people should wait before turning this guy into some sort of idol

While there are legitimate concerns regarding the modus operandi of Assange and his organisation, TBH, the last people I'd trust to provide a balanced viewpoint are ABC, or any mainstream US television media for that matter. They are provably and demonstrably in hock to corporate interests. The question of whether the likes of ABC are 'in on the conspiracy' against Wikileaks is not as as absurd as you appear to think, IMO.

[financeguy]

Originally Posted by mama cass

in this age of so-called morality, where civilian deaths have now reached 90% in Iraq, compared to 70% in Vietnam, 50% in WW2 and 10% in WW1, wikileaks has a vital role to play in telling us what the hell is going on really... most of the leaks are things people know about or have suspected underneath...

bless you Mrs Springsteen LOL

Well, to be fair, I would hardly class Mrs Springsteen as an unquestioning supporter of the Iraq war or of every single thing America has done in the foreign policy sphere.

[MrsSpringsteen]

It's all available on their web site

WikiLeaks Founder Julian Assange: Where's the Money? - ABC News

I think it's obvious that, in general in the world, some people are idolizing the guy.

At least one person here with strong military experience posted that it's "potentially lethal" , and I think he knows about that more than we do Just my opinion, and since all the facts really aren't available I think I'm entitled to that.

[mama cass]

Originally Posted by financeguy

Well, to be fair, I would hardly class Mrs Springsteen as an unquestioning supporter of the Iraq war or of every single thing America has done in the foreign policy sphere.

i was LOL-ing at this comment which came across as extreme to me and made me raise an eyebrow or two:

Anyway I think Assange might be an attention whore w/ issues who has little or no regard for the lives that he's potentially endangering. But I guess he's just saving the world from America, or something like that

i know nothing about MrsSpringsteen's stance on any other political issues

[mama cass]

Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen

It's all available on their web site

WikiLeaks Founder Julian Assange: Where's the Money? - ABC News

I think it's obvious that, in general in the world, some people are idolizing the guy.

At least one person here with strong military experience posted that it's "potentially lethal" , and I think he knows about that more than we do Just my opinion, and since all the facts really aren't available I think I'm entitled to that.

there's not much substance to that report really is there? not much more than the infighting we already know about...

i don't know about people idolising the guy... i think people are inspired by his bravery, and appalled by the injustice he's facing at the hands of the British/Swedish legal system right now, and are joining together and being vocal about what they think is "right"... it's disturbing to see how our civil liberties are being eroded, and wikileaks has a valid role in perhaps keeping our leaders in check somehow... who knows, maybe they'll think twice before lying to us and trying to get away with murder in the future?

or maybe Assange will turn out to be the antichrist after all!

[MrsSpringsteen]

Originally Posted by mama cass

fwiw, the allegations against him would not be classed as rape in the UK, being consensual but unprotected sex

So in the UK having sex with someone while they're sleeping is considered consensual and therefore not considered rape? I don't know what really happened but that is one of the two allegations.

If that's the classification of rape in the UK (can't imagine that it is) well that is really f'ed up. I would also say that anyone who considers sex with someone while they're sleeping to be in any way consensual sex is seriously f'ed up. Condoms have nothing to do with that. That would be extreme and I'm not lol ing.

In the other case he's alleged to have 'forcefully' held her arms and used his bodyweight to hold her down to "have sex" with her without using a condom. Don't know exactly what the UK law says about that.

You were talking about the classification of the allegations against him and that's what I'm talking about, nothing more.

[adam4bono]

Originally Posted by mama cass

there was a good documentary on ITV1 UK tv last night, John Pilger's "The War We Don't See"... kind of eye-opening to hear some of the facts and figures confirmed, most of which people are aware of, if they are informed... John Pilger has been very vocal and active in his support of Julian Assange and wikileaks

in this age of so-called morality, where civilian deaths have now reached 90% in Iraq, compared to 70% in Vietnam, 50% in WW2 and 10% in WW1, wikileaks has a vital role to play in telling us what the hell is going on really... most of the leaks are things people know about or have suspected underneath...

bless you Mrs Springsteen LOL

Please, don't try to convince people into thinking that the war in Iraq was in any way shape or form worse for civilians than World War II. Over 50 million civilians were killed in World War II compared with 100,000 in Iraq. Hell, Saddam's Iran/Iraq war or his murder rampage after Gulf War I against the Shia in southern Iraq killed far more peopled in the country than anything that has happened in total since 2003!

Wikilinks is nothing more than some stupid juvinile website attempting to be important by throwing shit at the United States, and the anti-American bigots are all to willing to fall in line! LOL

[adam4bono]

Originally Posted by Vincent Vega

First of all, ABC is a channel in the US. Not so easy to simply check out when you are on the other side of the pond.
Second, there was no idolisation of Assange on my part at all. Don't know where you read that. All I was saying was that Wikileaks did, contrary to what you posted, make sure not to just throw out names into the public that could have endangered lives. They worked together with press and even the US government before making the cables available, and in that case as in those before blanked many names and other information. You said he had no regard for the lives, which was simply a wrong statement. Had he not had any regard, or Wikileaks as a whole for that matter, a lot more information would be public by now, and nothing would be blanked.

.

Ok, so you can CONFIRM for us that not a single person's life was endangered by the illegal leaking of classified US documents?

[mama cass]

Originally Posted by adam4bono

Please, don't try to convince people into thinking that the war in Iraq was in any way shape or form worse for civilians than World War II. Over 50 million civilians were killed in World War II compared with 100,000 in Iraq. Hell, Saddam's Iran/Iraq war or his murder rampage after Gulf War I against the Shia in southern Iraq killed far more peopled in the country than anything that has happened in total since 2003!

Wikilinks is nothing more than some stupid juvinile website attempting to be important by throwing shit at the United States, and the anti-American bigots are all to willing to fall in line! LOL

you do realise the US is not the only target of the leaks?

[coolian2]

Originally Posted by mama cass

you do realise the US is not the only target of the leaks?

please, don't be sensible.

[mama cass]

Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen

So in the UK having sex with someone while they're sleeping is considered consensual and therefore not considered rape? I don't know what really happened but that is one of the two allegations.

If that's the classification of rape in the UK (can't imagine that it is) well that is really f'ed up. I would also say that anyone who considers sex with someone while they're sleeping to be in any way consensual sex is seriously f'ed up. Condoms have nothing to do with that. That would be extreme and I'm not lol ing.

In the other case he's alleged to have 'forcefully' held her arms and used his bodyweight to hold her down to "have sex" with her without using a condom. Don't know exactly what the UK law says about that.

You were talking about the classification of the allegations against him and that's what I'm talking about, nothing more.

i don't know how accurate those details are, as there is a lot of misinformation being bandied around the web, but it was apparently classed as "consensual sex" on the basis of the Swedish allegations... the case was also thrown out by a Swedish prosecutor several months ago as well... it just seems weird to me that it has suddenly been conveniently reopened...

wikileaks and alleged rape are two different issues altogether - it is possible to condone one and not the other...

[mama cass]

Originally Posted by coolian2

please, don't be sensible.

oops sorry...

(trying not to lol as it does not seem to be permitted in this thread, not even infuriated or exasperated or head-smacking lol-ing it seems)

[coolian2]

Originally Posted by mama cass

oops sorry...

(trying not to lol as it does not seem to be permitted in this thread, not even infuriated or exasperated or head-smacking lol-ing it seems)

WikiLeaks: US Govt Slams Kevin Rudd On Asylum Seekers

yeah, they're all out to get the americans.