US Politics XXXIV: Biden Against the Manchine (Live at the Sinema)

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I don't know the answer to that. My guess world be no. But they should.

We're in the midst of a civil cold war and the Democrats are worried about being polite.

I'm not saying they need to do full scorched earth, but at some point they're going to have to wake up to reality.

Take redistricting. New York should gerrymander the shit out of that state.

It's a paradox. In order to change things to the way you want, you're going to have to do some of the things you want to change.

I tend to agree at these perilous times.
I'm generally a nice person, but I know know how to be
nasty when I have to be (more rare when I want to be).

It's like the philosopher Karl ____?
We have to be intolerant of intolerant people in order for tolerance to exist.

having missed the last pages of the previous thread...

You and your hubs are going on a long vacation, or leaving your area (Virginia, right near DC) for good?
 
Did something in his brain break over the last two decades or was he always like this and 9/11 leadership was outlier ??

Also, I’m starting to dislike Garland more and more. He doesn’t seem to be up for the task. Same with Biden even tho i feel his response on covid and Afghanistan have been good
As far as Rudi goes, BEAL, and I'm a born & bred NYC'r he was racist for a long time. He was a speaker, and inflamed evn more a police rally protesting (there were I beieve home made racist signs) then David Dinkins (first black mayor).

On the very active, boisterous DU - a poster said he'd been a court reporter for 20 years, and felt Garland & Co have to make this case sooo air tight that that's why it's taking too long.

Hopefully he's right. It IS agrievating !
Imho Trump should have been in jail by ?this past mid summer, or earlier for 1/6.

Because even the shit that still only requires 50 votes, like reconciliation and the covid relief checks that went out earlier this year, would have failed without his pasty white ass.
Ok, thanks for the reminder.

Re: the Charlie Kirk stuff
Now that was interesting.... (if I got it right) him (a conservative): telling his audience [not to go to he violent route like some people are threatening (if he's not counting 1/6) bc then they'll be shut down like no tommorow by the (Biden) Feds.

Rachel M
said the Nat'l Archives late Fri night said the ?1600 pages the select 1/6 committee wants Trump can't claim "privilege" bc 1) he's no longer president, 2) it's info that's too important for the country to left hidden; they actually made real references to some outlandish stuff:
Trump making "Presidental Finding" that called for
"Election ____something [sorry, tired, like him trying to mess with it].
There was a seccond one. Also more than eyebrow raising.
Sorry - I'm sure she, or someone will have this up on Twitter.
And since I finally got my Twitter acct going again (not
banned - my user name was messed up, I finally made it
easier. Yay) I'm going to look for it myself. :up:
 
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this is my favorite part of the Washington Post January 6 write up from the weekend...

The Capitol Police directed members to put on their gas masks because tear gas had been deployed outside. The order was met by blank stares from members who had never been trained to use the masks. Some did not even know where they were located. Rep. Raul Ruiz (D-Calif.), a trained emergency room physician, helped Wild rip off the zipper and remove thick foil inside the bag to unveil the mask. As Rep. Paul A. Gosar (Ariz.), a Trump acolyte who just before the attack had led an objection to the certification of Arizona’s results, struggled with his, Rep. Liz Cheney walked over and helped him get it out of the bag and put it on.

Cheney also encountered Rep. Jim Jordan (R-Ohio), another Trump supporter trying to overturn the results. He told her: “We need to get the ladies away from the aisle. Let me help you.” Cheney told him: “Get away from me. You f---ing did this.”

not that we need to make Liz Cheney out to be a hero - we absolutely do not. But to read about these Trump backing chauvinist ass backwards cowards like Gosar and Jordan be put in their place by a female is just :chefskiss:
 
So we’re kind of fucked in 2022 huh?
Well the Democrats have managed to shoot themselves in the foot at every possible turn, so yes.

A moderate former cop won mayor in New York (a democrat).

A referendum to turn the police department into a public safety department in Minneapolis, home of George Floyd, lost.

A progressive candidate for mayor in Buffalo, who ran unopposed, is currently losing.

Read that last one again.

So hey - the take away here is that Trump is incredibly toxic and independent voters and moderate Democrats are repulsed by him - but they really aren't overly crazy about going full progressive, either.

Combine that with Afghanistan and an abject failure of a democratic Congress to accomplish anything and here we are.
 
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Mo money, mo problems

This story is a few days old now, but seems timely to mention in the forum tonight.

Biden Administration Reportedly Considering $450,000 Payments To Families Separated At Southern Border
https://www.forbes.com/sites/annaka...separated-at-southern-border/?sh=76bce52c66f4
The U.S. Departments of Justice, Homeland Security and Health and Human Services are in talks to offer each person who had been separated $450,000, the Journal reports, citing multiple sources close to the discussions.

The offer comes to nearly $1 million per family, as most families who crossed the border included one parent and one child, though the Journal reports the official number could change.
 
Seems like narrative is GQP can run on CRT to spook the white folks, and wink and nod to the smallish Trump base to keep the fire burning there.

Dems had better hope economy stays afloat and covid shit is basically done next year.

Even if they pass legislation to help people, it’s not like they’re good at messaging to let everyone know it was them that extended this relief.
 
I mean wasn’t that the deal all along? People hated Trump. Nobody united voters like Trump did. Nobody brought them out like Trump did. We reset. You better bet your ass that the Republicans win if 2024 is boring.

indeed.

now if the democrats can get their shit together - and at this time next year COVID is in the rear view mirror, the economy is booming, the supply chain issues have resolved, and the agenda has passed?

hey - the democrats will be just fine.

but if this shit lingers into 2022, and the democrats still can't get out of their own way (woah woah oh ohhhhh) and keep letting perfect get in the way of good? it's going to be a blood bath.

pass something. stop bitching about two senators, find out what they want, and pass it. get it done.
 
indeed.

now if the democrats can get their shit together - and at this time next year COVID is in the rear view mirror, the economy is booming, the supply chain issues have resolved, and the agenda has passed?

hey - the democrats will be just fine.

but if this shit lingers into 2022, and the democrats still can't get out of their own way (woah woah oh ohhhhh) and keep letting perfect get in the way of good? it's going to be a blood bath.

pass something. stop bitching about two senators, find out what they want, and pass it. get it done.

Hopefully or Lincoln's ghost will be rolling in his grave.
 
It’s sad seeing that white racial resentment still works, but we knew it did.

The country is in a frustrating place. Thanks to certain state governors and idiot-crybaby citizens (I just drove cross country through many red states and not a mask in sight), COVID is still here and life isn’t normal and everyone hates that. Sinema and Manchin see their role as trying to impede any sort of legislative progress (“what are the D’s doing and how can I fuck with it to strengthen my brand?”), and Biden took the bulleit to get us out of Afghanistan. It was a tough summer and fall.

2022 doesn’t have to be this way. We do need to realize that anything left of center-left is politically toxic and to denounce those who would defund the police and/or whatever other silly policies that may make intellectual sense but sound like they are from outer space to everyday people.

We need to understand that politically conservative voters have now voluntarily subjected themselves to levels of propaganda unmatched in our history. The right wing media complex, which includes Facebook and YouTube, has distorted reality for a lot of folks. That wasn’t quite the case even as little as 10 years ago.

At the end of the day, though, so long as Trump isn’t president, we’ll survive.

For a bit. The biggest issue facing the planet is climate change, and the Republican Party seem to want to do everything they can to make it worse.
 
We do need to realize that anything left of center-left is politically toxic and to denounce those who would defund the police and/or whatever other silly policies that may make intellectual sense but sound like they are from outer space to everyday people.

to build on this - democrats need to realize that yes, everyday people vote and no, everyday people do not watch Rachel Maddow every night and only pay attention to politics when it a) directly impacts their lives (i.e. gas prices, inflation, jobs, etc.) or b) just before the election.
 
It comes down to messaging.

The GQP can rile up their base with their racism and conspiracies, but they can also scare the burbs with the messaging that Dems will fuck with your schools. Whether it's CRT, School Closures (which hopefully are less and less cause it means covid is under control), or insert whatever the next paranoia is about what kids will have to deal with.

This ignores the fact that Dems have tried to pass sensible gun laws to protect children at schools, but that's greeted with MA GUNS AND FREEDOMM!!!

The policies that Dems want to pass (and do) are extremely popular, but due to their messaging people believe it's evil until they discover the benefit for themselves.

Stop running on Trump being on the ballot. He's not. Let him run again and see, but right now the GQP are taking control of local and state houses of government and restricting the vote for 2022 and beyond.

Trying to OUT VOTE didn't work lasts night. You have to be better at telling people what you stand for cause at the moment, no one knows what the Democratic party does or believes in. It can't just be, WE'RE NOT TRUMP!!

Biden and others need to pressure the shit out of Joe M. It sounds like Kyrsten may be on board so it comes down to one dude who loves the attention he's creating. Give him what he wants to just pass something. Then run on that message.

This is the last shot Dems have, cause 2022 and they lose they'll have nothing to run on for 2024.
 
I've been looking for this quote since i heard it last night and almost fell off my couch...

"There are some in the Obama Coalition who don’t want to deal with history. Don’t want to deal with Thomas Jefferson."
-Joy Reid

... um, yea. no shit. it was 200 years ago.

if you told me that the right purposefully suckered the left into this whole statue and canceling of people from the past thing, i'd believe you.

yes, Joy. your average voter does not give a shit about Thomas Jefferson. they give a shit about what impacts their lives now, today.

that doesn't mean that thomas jefferson wasn't racist as fuck - or that there isn't a direct line from slavery through jim crow all the way up to policies regarding policing and housing today. there is. the average american voter's attention span isn't long enough to understand that. we're dumb. we are a stupid stupid nation. simplify your message, focus publicly on what you are going to do about today/now, and get some shit done.
 
https://twitter.com/whstancil/status/1455940313340682240?s=21

https://twitter.com/whstancil/status/1455942338195382275?s=21

https://twitter.com/whstancil/status/1455942477987434499?s=21

Identity politics isn’t going to work for Dems. Bannon called it years ago (and btw, he’s still defying a congress subpoena)

Pass stuff that helps people. Tell people what you did. Attack the other side as fucking traitors cause that’s what they are. They all support the big lie (minus 2-3 reps but they still vote against anything dem related)

Be a stronger party. Your policies are popular
 
Isn’t a lot of this a bit unnecessary? We know that mid terms and non general elections do not have the same demographics. We know republicans show up and democrats don’t
 
I mean wasn’t that the deal all along? People hated Trump. Nobody united voters like Trump did. Nobody brought them out like Trump did. We reset.

:up:

A slight reset and yes, a little reality check, is okay.

And your point on off year and midterm elections is so true. Virginia & NJ go a bit beyond that. You're still right.
 
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