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Old 11-21-2021, 10:48 AM   #241
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Ah, thanks for the pep talk Mikal to enjoy with my morning cup of bleach.
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Old 11-22-2021, 09:43 AM   #242
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Just wanted to say “Self Defense! Not guilty! You’re all sheep for taking the vaccine! Fauci lied! And Let’s Go Brandon!
I know!!! LOL RePUGlicans,!!1!!! They aren't capable of sophisticated, intelligent discourse like us lefties! Anyway, Donald Trump is the single greatest threat to human civilization- nay, the universe- that has ever existed ever, right guys? !?!?!
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Old 11-22-2021, 09:46 AM   #243
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I know!!! LOL RePUGlicans,!!1!!! They aren't capable of sophisticated, intelligent discourse like us lefties! Anyway, Donald Trump is the single greatest threat to human civilization- nay, the universe- that has ever existed ever, right guys? !?!?!
lol you think mikal is a leftie.
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Old 11-22-2021, 01:00 PM   #244
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I know!!! LOL RePUGlicans,!!1!!! They aren't capable of sophisticated, intelligent discourse like us lefties! Anyway, Donald Trump is the single greatest threat to human civilization- nay, the universe- that has ever existed ever, right guys? !?!?!


Given that Trump’s base is overwhelmingly whites without college degrees, how sophisticated do you think pro-Trump dialogue is? Can you cite examples of smart, sharp, sophisticated discourse, rather than resort to ad hominem attacks of the left?
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Old 11-22-2021, 01:18 PM   #245
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lol you think mikal is a leftie.
Mikal is a Democratic neo-establishmentarian
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Old 11-22-2021, 01:53 PM   #246
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lol you think mikal is a leftie.
I don't know or care if he is or isn't. I'm not sure what the point of his post was aside from trying to mockingly reduce the crux of some conservatives' beliefs on Kenosha and Covid to hyperbole and 2-word slogans. And I was pointing out how the left does that just as much. In fact, my Donald Trump example was more-or-less stated in this very thread a few pages back.

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Given that Trump’s base is overwhelmingly whites without college degrees, how sophisticated do you think pro-Trump dialogue is? Can you cite examples of smart, sharp, sophisticated discourse, rather than resort to ad hominem attacks of the left?
White or lacking a formal college degree means not sophisticated or intelligent? Run on that. It'll work great.

On the subject of "sophisticated" dialogue by the left, do you realize how many dozens of prominent people and well-known news outlets over the last few days have said Jacob Blake was A) killed, and B) unarmed? We're talking the Chair of the DCCC. Terry Moran of ABC News. Detroit Free Press. Least surprising of all, MSNBC. The Independent writing that Rittenhouse shot 3 black men. Where are the fact-checkers? Where's Brian Stelter? Where's the Twitter misinformation disclaimers? What fucking tools. When people like that can't even get basic facts about these things correct, it's no wonder their brains can't compute the slightest thought or idea that runs counter to their narrative. To them, anything different seems like gobbeldy-gook.

We can't hope to have honest debate if this kind of thing goes unchallenged or shrugged off. These aren't opinions- these are, again, basic facts that they are- perhaps intentionally- getting wrong. But hey, they may not know the facts, but at least they know the buzzwords to use to rile up their base and sow unnecessary division. So no, I'm not going to paint a picture of what sophisticated discourse is on the conservative side. There's plenty out there, and you're intelligent enough to seek it out if you care to. Tune out the Joy Reids and Toure's and Stephen Colberts of the world, for starters, if you don't already. They don't know the first thing about the average conservative voter in middle America. All I can tell you is that sophisticted discourse certainly isn't what I described in the previous paragraph- by the very people we're supposed to listen to and trust.
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Old 11-22-2021, 02:24 PM   #247
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I don't know or care if he is or isn't. I'm not sure what the point of his post was aside from trying to mockingly reduce the crux of some conservatives' beliefs on Kenosha and Covid to hyperbole and 2-word slogans. And I was pointing out how the left does that just as much. In fact, my Donald Trump example was more-or-less stated in this very thread a few pages back.



White or lacking a formal college degree means not sophisticated or intelligent? Run on that. It'll work great.

On the subject of "sophisticated" dialogue by the left, do you realize how many dozens of prominent people and well-known news outlets over the last few days have said Jacob Blake was A) killed, and B) unarmed? We're talking the Chair of the DCCC. Terry Moran of ABC News. Detroit Free Press. Least surprising of all, MSNBC. The Independent writing that Rittenhouse shot 3 black men. Where are the fact-checkers? Where's Brian Stelter? Where's the Twitter misinformation disclaimers? What fucking tools. When people like that can't even get basic facts about these things correct, it's no wonder their brains can't compute the slightest thought or idea that runs counter to their narrative. To them, anything different seems like gobbeldy-gook.

We can't hope to have honest debate if this kind of thing goes unchallenged or shrugged off. These aren't opinions- these are, again, basic facts that they are- perhaps intentionally- getting wrong. But hey, they may not know the facts, but at least they know the buzzwords to use to rile up their base and sow unnecessary division. So no, I'm not going to paint a picture of what sophisticated discourse is on the conservative side. There's plenty out there, and you're intelligent enough to seek it out if you care to. Tune out the Joy Reids and Toure's and Stephen Colberts of the world, for starters, if you don't already. They don't know the first thing about the average conservative voter in middle America. All I can tell you is that sophisticted discourse certainly isn't what I described in the previous paragraph- by the very people we're supposed to listen to and trust.


Ok. So you can’t do it.

I understand.
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Old 11-22-2021, 02:53 PM   #248
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"However, given how things are looking, Bernie’s anti-intellectual leftist populism is probably more broadly appealing than the academic leftism that’s been ascendant for a little while, which is the kind of legitimate I personally understand and relate to. But I fully realize that what I want (social progress) vs what we need (to win elections) are two very different things, and in fact may be in opposition to one another. So because I view climate change as — aside from more Trump — the looming existential threat to life on earth, I set aside what I want for what’s possible in order to give us a better chance at mitigating climate change. It’s become an organizing principle."


You think Sander's is an anti-intellectual? How so?
Caveat: I have no idea - is populism automatically
anti intellectual?

I probably veer between what I want (progressivism) with what I think we can get (pragmatism).
Drumph, Republicans as they are (vs some of the NE liberal ones quite in the past) getting in the way to actively destroying democracy in their various ways are horrific.

Climate change probably be a range of somewhat nasty some of the time to pontentially terrifying much of the time depending on various factors. How do we try to still mitigate the worst for the most people? I'm not an on going pessimist on this though I have my moments.

As someone, though, who matched, did semi activist work through much of the '80s on multiple Renewable Energies...
...The Who's lyrics (nothing to do with weather) apply to how I feel:
"We tried, but you were yawning...".

All I can do right now is vote, opine, and educate as I can
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Old 11-22-2021, 03:11 PM   #249
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damn, i really should have bought some shares in the strawman factory back in the summer when the price was still low. business has really picked up around here for them lately.
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Old 11-22-2021, 03:37 PM   #250
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damn, i really should have bought some shares in the strawman factory back in the summer when the price was still low. business has really picked up around here for them lately.


Did you know that there was this one time when a reporter got a fact wrong?
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Old 11-22-2021, 03:48 PM   #251
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Did you know that there was this one time when a reporter got a fact wrong?


Well now that I know… racism justified
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Old 11-22-2021, 03:53 PM   #252
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Did you know that there was this one time when a reporter got a fact wrong?
i did not, because i don't pay attention to leftist media. i only follow sophisticated intelligent conservative outlets because they're always 100% factual and honest.
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Old 11-22-2021, 03:58 PM   #253
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I don't know or care if he is or isn't. I'm not sure what the point of his post was aside from trying to mockingly reduce the crux of some conservatives' beliefs on Kenosha and Covid to hyperbole and 2-word slogans. And I was pointing out how the left does that just as much. In fact, my Donald Trump example was more-or-less stated in this very thread a few pages back.
shoe = fits.

and yes, the current republican party is a threat to democracy as we know it. and not everyone who believes that is a leftie, or even a democrat.

i do hope you all figure your shit out - because having the democratic party be the only non batshit crazy party is not healthy for america, either. but supporting trumpism is an existential threat to american democracy and, thus, the world.

if you're a republican that agrees with the trumpism threat? great! stand up and fight for it. i may not agree with liz cheney on many things, but hey, at least she has more balls than 95% of republican leadership. and what'd she get for it? kicked out of her role, stripped of her committees and bounced from the Wyoming republican party. for telling the truth.

cool gang you guys have over there.
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Old 11-22-2021, 04:30 PM   #254
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I'm so glad I'm not running for office and don't have to pretend to give a shit about what half the American population thinks about sociopolitical matters even when they're objectively ignorant and wrong.
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Old 11-22-2021, 05:58 PM   #255
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damn, i really should have bought some shares in the strawman factory back in the summer when the price was still low. business has really picked up around here for them lately.
Oh please.

Everyone knows strawmen prices are rising because the cargo ships are so backed up in SoCal. And even then, there aren't enough truckers to move the strawmen to market
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Old 11-22-2021, 07:42 PM   #256
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Actually they've kept the straw ports open 24 hours a day and there really isn't any straw supply chain issues anymore.
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Old 11-22-2021, 07:46 PM   #257
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https://twitter.com/willsommer/statu...382845445?s=21

And all the Trump signs but yes let’s talk about how intelligent these people are
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Old 11-22-2021, 08:08 PM   #258
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US Politics XXXIV: Biden Against the Manchine (Live at the Sinema)

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https://twitter.com/willsommer/statu...382845445?s=21

And all the Trump signs but yes let’s talk about how intelligent these people are



So … I don’t think it’s about intelligence. The word that was used, and I asked for examples of, was “sophistication.”

I know plenty of intelligent people w/out college degrees.

But I wouldn’t call them sophisticated.

Remember, sophistication is the enemy. It’s elite. It’s liberal. It comes from universities and people who think they’re better than anyone. Say what you will about Trump, no one would mistake him for sophisticated. For all his supposed money, does he support the arts? Has he read any political philosophy?

Compare him to Obama, who was sophistication personified.

And this is why Trump “won”! Because enough people across a handful of swing states were able to tip an 18th century political apparatus in their favor.

I really don’t see good discourse on the right. I see a lot of grift, conspiracy theories, and finger pointing. But not sophistication — because their audience isn’t sophisticated. And their lack of education makes them especially vulnerable/gullible to this kind of snake oil.
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Old 11-22-2021, 09:07 PM   #259
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Heat check !!!
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Old 11-22-2021, 10:04 PM   #260
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https://twitter.com/willsommer/statu...382845445?s=21

And all the Trump signs but yes let’s talk about how intelligent these people are
JFK would be a robust 104.
I can see how these folks can believe he's coming back. Probably think he will take on Harrison Ford and kick his ass in an MMA fight as well.
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