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Old 08-18-2020, 01:13 PM   #61
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In what universe is John Kasich, Meg Whitman, or Susan Molinari convincing even one voter to cast a vote for Joe Biden?
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Old 08-18-2020, 01:18 PM   #62
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because Trump is both mendacious and stupid, this blew up in his face as i predicted and should damage him electorally. but it also goes to show that if someone who wasn't a complete idiot shared his goal of turning the US into an autocracy, there might not be all that much we could do about it:



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WASHINGTON, DC — Postmaster General Louis DeJoy issued the following statement today:

“The United States Postal Service will play a critical role this year in delivering election mail for millions of voters across the country. There has been a lot of discussion recently about whether the Postal Service is ready, willing and able to meet this challenge.

I want to make a few things clear:

The Postal Service is ready today to handle whatever volume of election mail it receives this fall. Even with the challenges of keeping our employees and customers safe and healthy as they operate amid a pandemic, we will deliver the nation’s election mail on time and within our well-established service standards. The American public should know that this is our number one priority between now and election day. The 630,000 dedicated women and men of the Postal Service are committed, ready and proud to meet this sacred duty.

I am announcing today the expansion of our current leadership taskforce on election mail to enhance our ongoing work and partnership with state and local election officials in jurisdictions throughout the country. Leaders of our postal unions and management associations have committed to joining this taskforce to ensure strong coordination throughout our organization. Because of the unprecedented demands of the 2020 election, this taskforce will help ensure that election officials and voters are well informed and fully supported by the Postal Service.

https://about.usps.com/newsroom/nati...-statement.htm
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Old 08-18-2020, 01:27 PM   #63
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Originally Posted by Jerry Dunk View Post
In what universe is John Kasich, Meg Whitman, or Susan Molinari convincing even one voter to cast a vote for Joe Biden?
Yeah, honestly this myth of the independent voter who AT THIS POINT is just stumped and can't decide between Biden and Trump is going to be swayed by freaking John Kasich is something else.

They are doing this in the name of perception when nobody actually cares.
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Old 08-18-2020, 01:36 PM   #64
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Golly gee might as well go and cancel the conventions and debates and just have the election now then.

You would certainly hope that everyone has chosen a side by now and that there's no one left to sway, but I'll let you in on a secret - this is a nation that elected Donald Trump president. We're not smart!
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Old 08-18-2020, 02:40 PM   #65
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It is true that winning elections usually involves getting people who disagree with you on some things to vote for you. It’s also true that Kasich is entirely consistent with the theory of the Biden campaign — that he can and will win over white suburban voters and much of the political middle and persuadable Tepublicans. And this is what he’s done since the primaries and has resulted in a 8-10 point polling lead over Trump. I suppose it’s possible that an 8-10 point polling lead could have been built in another fashion, but this is what we have: a candidate with a dominating lead over college educated voters. I can see many of them maybe not being persuaded but nodding along agreeing that it’s important to put certain disagreements aside — on taxes, or abortions — to stop a dangerous would be autocrat.

I will say, however, that at this point I don’t see Bill Clinton as much of a help.

He had an unquestionably successful presidency. He is a prodigiously gifted public speaker. We also live in a much different world. He should go away.
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Old 08-18-2020, 02:48 PM   #66
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Originally Posted by Jerry Dunk View Post
I'm sure the Obama and Sanders speeches were fine and went over well. But I really don't understand the need to load up the lineup with Republicans. I mean, I do, because the Democratic Party finds more kinship with centrist Republicans than they do with leftists. But it's still fucking offensive. Anti-choice, anti-union, climate change deniers, etc. I don't give a flying fuck about John Kasich's opinion. The guy is a misogynistic, classist piece of shit. Having him on was as embarrassing as Michael Bloomberg in 2016.
I wanted to write a reflexive response here, but as I said before, I do like to see your posts because you do make me pause and think a bit.
So I will try to make this as productive as possible.

First, I'm not sure from you post if you watched Michelle or Bernie's speeches, but if you didn't I think you should.
Second, the theme of last night was unity. So it makes sense that there were Reps in the mix. But to be clear, they did not load up the lineup with them. By my count, they gave 4 Republican women 10 seconds a piece, and Kasich about 1.5 or 2 minutes. So 2 and a half minutes out of 2 and a half hours.

Now it's important to remember why. What we have is a floating group of people that are moderate Repubs that have seen the destruction that Trump has brought. Unlike 2016 where many of these people voted for Trump, didn't vote, or did a write in or something. They now want to actively vote for Biden to remove Trump.
Having Kasich, and other Rep politicians, and I think more so, regular people that voted for Trump but now are voting for Biden given some time in the convention, helps to give hesitant voters "permission" to cross over.
The best part is that many of these people will remain. And when they do, they will also shed a lot of their shitty views when they see success of a more progressive agenda.

And isn't it what we want to bring people into the fold, not just blanket repudiate them because of their history?

Now granted many of those voters would probably return if there was a Romney or something at the top of the Rep ticket. But at this point, half of Republicans think that Romney is a communist traitor. So most likely we see a Cotton or Pompeo on the ticket which will keep these people right where they are.

I think we can agree that we don't just want the Democratic Party to continue to move to the left, but to bring as many people with us as we can. More people brings more progress.

That said, I don't think we can really say that Dems have more of a kinship with moderate Reps than the left.

Let's go down the list of just what Biden has in his platform (much of it improved by working with Sanders)

Pro-choice
Newly, greatly improved climate change plan and green jobs plan
Free public college
Free pre-k
15 dollar minimum wage
Capped child care cost
Prescription drug cost reduction plan
Gun control
Police reform with community program funding
Criminal justice and racial justice plans
Ending private prisons and cash bail
Raising taxes on the wealthy
Universal healthcare (yes, I know not M4A, but i think a definite move toward the Transition to the inevitable M4A) just lowering the age of Medicare to 60 alone, will add 20 million more people to medicare.
Regime change off the table in the Dem platform

The list goes on, but its what i can think of off the top of my head.

I see no crossover with Trump/solid Repubs. There is some limited crossover now with moderate Reps, but very little. What I do see is a candidate labeled a moderate, that has a platform that looks a bit like Sanders in 2016, except for Medicare for all, and the addition of police reform.

In the end, it's better to have the party grow larger, and then have progressive representatives and hopefully presidential candidates pull that larger group to a more progressive place. I know the process is too slow for some, but as long as it keeps moving in that direction, I'm happy. As Michael Moore said yesterday. Progressives have finally realized that it's much better to play offense along side someone like Biden, than to try and play defense against someone like Trump.
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Old 08-18-2020, 02:55 PM   #67
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Golly gee might as well go and cancel the conventions and debates and just have the election now then.

You would certainly hope that everyone has chosen a side by now and that there's no one left to sway, but I'll let you in on a secret - this is a nation that elected Donald Trump president. We're not smart!
Exactly. I think there's more to the numbers than we think. Biden is up about 9 points because a lot of people have shifted from 2016. But the polling average right now shows there are about 6% undecided. That's about 8 million votes. Throw in a couple more percentage points for people that are choosing Biden but would slip back to Trump if the economy or Covid makes a rapid improvement. They are just looking for a justification.

This is a much smaller number than in 2016, which was in the double digits at this point. But still very significant.

I agree with Jerry that the Rep politicians will probably sway nobody. But the every day Trump 2016 voter that now has seen the light, those are the ones that make undecideds feel like they aren't alone, that it's ok to vote Democrat.
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Old 08-18-2020, 03:07 PM   #68
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Originally Posted by Jerry Dunk View Post
In what universe is John Kasich, Meg Whitman, or Susan Molinari convincing even one voter to cast a vote for Joe Biden?


In the american world bruh

Biden is posturing unity. That’s why Kasich and Sanders both had a role. You don’t have to like it to realize it’s effective. It’s less about the progressives getting unity, more about the “we all think this guy is stupid.”
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Old 08-18-2020, 03:42 PM   #69
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Quote:
Originally Posted by womanfish View Post
I wanted to write a reflexive response here, but as I said before, I do like to see your posts because you do make me pause and think a bit.
So I will try to make this as productive as possible.

First, I'm not sure from you post if you watched Michelle or Bernie's speeches, but if you didn't I think you should.
Second, the theme of last night was unity. So it makes sense that there were Reps in the mix. But to be clear, they did not load up the lineup with them. By my count, they gave 4 Republican women 10 seconds a piece, and Kasich about 1.5 or 2 minutes. So 2 and a half minutes out of 2 and a half hours.

Now it's important to remember why. What we have is a floating group of people that are moderate Repubs that have seen the destruction that Trump has brought. Unlike 2016 where many of these people voted for Trump, didn't vote, or did a write in or something. They now want to actively vote for Biden to remove Trump.
Having Kasich, and other Rep politicians, and I think more so, regular people that voted for Trump but now are voting for Biden given some time in the convention, helps to give hesitant voters "permission" to cross over.
The best part is that many of these people will remain. And when they do, they will also shed a lot of their shitty views when they see success of a more progressive agenda.

And isn't it what we want to bring people into the fold, not just blanket repudiate them because of their history?

Now granted many of those voters would probably return if there was a Romney or something at the top of the Rep ticket. But at this point, half of Republicans think that Romney is a communist traitor. So most likely we see a Cotton or Pompeo on the ticket which will keep these people right where they are.

I think we can agree that we don't just want the Democratic Party to continue to move to the left, but to bring as many people with us as we can. More people brings more progress.

That said, I don't think we can really say that Dems have more of a kinship with moderate Reps than the left.

Let's go down the list of just what Biden has in his platform (much of it improved by working with Sanders)

Pro-choice
Newly, greatly improved climate change plan and green jobs plan
Free public college
Free pre-k
15 dollar minimum wage
Capped child care cost
Prescription drug cost reduction plan
Gun control
Police reform with community program funding
Criminal justice and racial justice plans
Ending private prisons and cash bail
Raising taxes on the wealthy
Universal healthcare (yes, I know not M4A, but i think a definite move toward the Transition to the inevitable M4A) just lowering the age of Medicare to 60 alone, will add 20 million more people to medicare.
Regime change off the table in the Dem platform

The list goes on, but its what i can think of off the top of my head.

I see no crossover with Trump/solid Repubs. There is some limited crossover now with moderate Reps, but very little. What I do see is a candidate labeled a moderate, that has a platform that looks a bit like Sanders in 2016, except for Medicare for all, and the addition of police reform.

In the end, it's better to have the party grow larger, and then have progressive representatives and hopefully presidential candidates pull that larger group to a more progressive place. I know the process is too slow for some, but as long as it keeps moving in that direction, I'm happy. As Michael Moore said yesterday. Progressives have finally realized that it's much better to play offense along side someone like Biden, than to try and play defense against someone like Trump.
I don't believe almost any of this. And I think anything they claim to have moved left on is just posturing. Let's see what's been uncovered just today on the climate change front:

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Old 08-18-2020, 03:44 PM   #70
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I will say, however, that at this point I don’t see Bill Clinton as much of a help.

He had an unquestionably successful presidency. He is a prodigiously gifted public speaker. We also live in a much different world. He should go away.
While I disagree that his presidency was "unquestionably successful," I do agree with the rest of this post.
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Old 08-18-2020, 06:30 PM   #71
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Colin Powell said he supports Biden. No surprise there. Wonder if Trump has already attacked him on Twitter.
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Old 08-18-2020, 06:44 PM   #72
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Cindy McCain is a solid add to help build the case. There are a lot of middle income, middle aged white guys who loved McCain, or at least the McCain of 1999/2000, and may need the reassurance to vote for a party that sometimes seems too identity-obsessed for them to feel comfortable.

Flipping an R to a D is a +2.
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Old 08-18-2020, 07:55 PM   #73
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this continues to be a very, very important issue that still isn't getting enough attention:
I have to read your article snip, but I DID hear about it on NPR news.

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Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase View Post
Maybe, and hear me out here, but maybe it's because they want to chase independents and moderate Republicans who are sick of trump so that they can win the election in November.

I know - it's a crazy thought. But golly it might be worth a shot .
On Brian Lerher's (WNYC) show this morning he had undecided voters call in. Yup, there were a bunch of them.
I think Irving's about "getting permission" is a salient one. Who knows - it just make a pivotol change in just the right preceints, in just the right counties a swing State.
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Old 08-18-2020, 07:57 PM   #74
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I don't believe almost any of this. And I think anything they claim to have moved left on is just posturing. Let's see what's been uncovered just today on the climate change front:

We can always start pushing more on Jan 21, 2021.
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Old 08-18-2020, 08:09 PM   #75
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First 10 minutes: "let us assure you the Democrats do have elected officials under age 50."
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Old 08-18-2020, 08:29 PM   #76
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I like how your president might cause a civil war if he doesn't win, but at least you're not Australia.
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Old 08-18-2020, 08:34 PM   #77
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Colin Powell said he supports Biden. No surprise there. Wonder if Trump has already attacked him on Twitter.
He's been persona non grata to the Republicans for years now.
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Old 08-18-2020, 09:06 PM   #78
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australia lost a war against birds.
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Old 08-18-2020, 09:43 PM   #79
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We were on the cusp of victory until the birds formed an alliance with the drop bears.

It’s a shame we also got dragged into America’s failed wars overseas the past few decades, if we could have got the birds past basic training it might have turned the tide in Vietnam.
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Old 08-18-2020, 10:08 PM   #80
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The best stuff tonight was the national security stuff. The line about the blooper reel landed.
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