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Old 02-15-2020, 01:10 AM   #501
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no it probably won't be wildly different. but there are a lot of people who are retired or approaching that age in nevada who have been or were in hospitality and service industry unions for a really long time who are likely to be particularly receptive to his message. i get why the unions want to keep control of their health insurance, but on most other things they seem to align with sanders the most. the dipshit trolls going after the people running the culinary union really ought to stop because they're driving away a potential ally.
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Old 02-15-2020, 02:22 AM   #502
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even though we obviously all have our own opinions on who the candidate should be, and we're in for a long 8.5ish months, i want you all to know that i love you and happy valentine's day.
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Old 02-15-2020, 06:39 AM   #503
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even though we obviously all have our own opinions on who the candidate should be, and we're in for a long 8.5ish months, i want you all to know that i love you and happy valentine's day.
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Old 02-15-2020, 07:06 AM   #504
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no it probably won't be wildly different. but there are a lot of people who are retired or approaching that age in nevada who have been or were in hospitality and service industry unions for a really long time who are likely to be particularly receptive to his message. i get why the unions want to keep control of their health insurance, but on most other things they seem to align with sanders the most. the dipshit trolls going after the people running the culinary union really ought to stop because they're driving away a potential ally.
The hospitality unions, culinary in particular, don't just have good health care... they have amazing health care. Culinary Union health care in Nevada is free. Not a dime is taken from the employee's pay check - and that includes coverage for their families. There are no deductables. The care itself is heavily discounted, and they have supplementary funds set up in case of serious illness. The union has set up their own pharmacy for free generic medications - no copay.

The union also provides interest free housing loans and a very generous pension plan.

They are VERY strong and united. Attacking their leadership was galactically stupid.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out, as this is a union that will be very united and very reluctant to give up their health care plan.
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Old 02-15-2020, 10:05 AM   #505
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The hospitality unions, culinary in particular, don't just have good health care... they have amazing health care. Culinary Union health care in Nevada is free. Not a dime is taken from the employee's pay check - and that includes coverage for their families. There are no deductables. The care itself is heavily discounted, and they have supplementary funds set up in case of serious illness. The union has set up their own pharmacy for free generic medications - no copay.



This is what I’ve been saying and what people — often non-Americans who hear horror stories of bankruptcy or that one Bernie Bro who apparently died because of Hillary Clinton — don’t hear nearly enough. Many people love their health care. There are gigantic problems and it’s too expensive, yes, but the care itself in the US is second to none, and when you get an actual good plan that works very well for you and your family, it’s asking a lot to give all that up. My super-Bernie relatives get unbelievably good health care ... from their employer. They don’t like to talk about that.

Let’s start with a public optio.
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Old 02-15-2020, 10:23 AM   #506
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Many people love their health care.

This is a stretch of a true statement. Do some people like their healthcare plan? Sure. Does that mean they love their healthcare? This is a repeatedly polled question with mixed results. Depending upon how it’s asked, you sometimes see upwards towards 70% saying they like their healthcare, whereas other times you’ll see only a third of the country would rate their healthcare as “good” or “excellent.”


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but the care itself in the US is second to none,
This also just isn’t true at all. The myths and lies that have been propagated to Americans are things straight out of lobbyist playbooks. What, these false notions of extremely wait times in British hospitals etc? So so so false. We have similar wait time issues, and it’s not at every hospital. I’ve personally used multiple national healthcare systems. The care you get? Sure we are a developed nation and we have well trained doctors that operate sophisticated systems. It’s not better than any other developed nation. And the accessibility yo the care, to me, gives the benefit of the doubt to the other systems.

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Let’s start with a public optio.
The public option is not a real thing. It is state-sponsored insurance, not healthcare and is no different from Obamacare, so I’m not sure what you want this supposed public option to be that doesn’t already exist.

I’ve said it time and time again though - a supposed public option is a sure fire way to raise costs for some Americans, without decreasing costs for others. You’re asking individuals who already get employee benefits to pay taxes to prop up a system that they will not use. That is dumb. Unless you have a unified system, you might as well not touch a thing. There’s literally nothing you can do to make the current garbage system any better. It’s already had all the patchwork it can.
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Old 02-15-2020, 12:47 PM   #507
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even though we obviously all have our own opinions on who the candidate should be, and we're in for a long 8.5ish months, i want you all to know that i love you and happy valentine's day.
Right on my friend. I was gonna say. This place was empty last night except for you and I. That might speak about our love life. LOL. But I do love hearing everyone's point of view here. We kind of have a microcosm of what's going on out there in the larger electorate. And it does give a good gauge of how different people are viewing things.

cheers to everyone here!
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Old 02-15-2020, 02:58 PM   #508
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This place was empty last night except for you and I. That might speak about our love life. LOL.
lol my fiancee was in bed by 8:30 because she had to work at 5 this morning but sure
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Old 02-15-2020, 03:22 PM   #509
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lol my fiancee was in bed by 8:30 because she had to work at 5 this morning but sure
yeah, my wife has the flu, So she pretty much slept all day. sigh.
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Old 02-15-2020, 03:30 PM   #510
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I was at a bar with another american, an Australian, an Irish(wo)man, and a South African. In London.

I can (not so) proudly say we were the loudest table and had way too much to drink and they hated us everywhere we went.

But also I was quiet
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Old 02-15-2020, 03:34 PM   #511
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That was you?
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Old 02-15-2020, 03:58 PM   #512
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It’s funny because I was like this guy could totally be from interference.
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Old 02-15-2020, 05:01 PM   #513
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I was at a bar with another american, an Australian, an Irish(wo)man, and a South African.
sounds like the start of a good joke.
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Old 02-15-2020, 06:08 PM   #514
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The hospitality unions, culinary in particular, don't just have good health care... they have amazing health care. Culinary Union health care in Nevada is free. Not a dime is taken from the employee's pay check - and that includes coverage for their families. There are no deductables. The care itself is heavily discounted, and they have supplementary funds set up in case of serious illness. The union has set up their own pharmacy for free generic medications - no copay.

The union also provides interest free housing loans and a very generous pension plan.

They are VERY strong and united. Attacking their leadership was galactically stupid.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out, as this is a union that will be very united and very reluctant to give up their health care plan.
This is so true. As was said a couple days ago. People vote their interests. Why would people getting top notch, free health care, vote to put up a candidate that would give them free, but maybe not as accessible care, or they may need to change their providers, and also have their taxes go up.
Pair that with the fact that Biden is also very pro-union. It's sorta a no brainer.
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Old 02-15-2020, 06:12 PM   #515
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This is so true. As was said a couple days ago. People vote their interests. Why would people getting top notch, free health care, vote to put up a candidate that would give them free, but maybe not as accessible care, or they may need to change their providers, and also have their taxes go up.

Pair that with the fact that Biden is also very pro-union. It's sorta a no brainer.


People don’t understand that they really don’t like their health care even when they like their health care.
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Old 02-15-2020, 06:27 PM   #516
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I know that the narrative is that that Biden has completely collapsed, bottomed out, he's a "corpse".
But I think this is still premature.
If we go by the current polling in NV and SC. I think the following is quite likely.
I put them in order of how they will place along with a general delegate allocation.
I didn't list Pete or Amy, because I don't believe they will reach the threshold to get any delegates.
Then at the bottom, the total amount of delegates that each candidate would have before super tuesday.

Nevada

Sanders - 17
Biden -13
Warren - 6

South Carolina

Biden - 25
S - 20
Steyer - 9


Before super tuesday - It could look like this...
Sanders - 57
Biden - 44
Pete - 23
Warren - 14
Amy - 7

I can't see how Amy could justify moving forward if this is actually how it comes out.
But as you can see, Biden would be in second, and be poised to get a boatload more delegates on super tuesday than Pete.
I know he was hobbled there in IA and NH. But i think the IA fuckup and the fact that there are so many candidates spreading the vote, it really does seem like NV and SC are voting how they want, not really letting those two races alter their opinion much.
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Old 02-15-2020, 06:31 PM   #517
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I can't see how Amy could justify moving forward if this is actually how it comes out.
But as you can see, Biden would be in second, and be poised to get a boatload more delegates on super tuesday than Pete.
I know he was hobbled there in IA and NH. But i think the IA fuckup and the fact that there are so many candidates spreading the vote, it really does seem like NV and SC are voting how they want, not really letting those two races alter their opinion much.


The point is that Biden is a terrible candidate and a disaster in the general. The guy can’t campaign, inspires poor turnout and can’t even raise $. Of all the moderates still in the race, he’s the worst. So he can win a bunch of southern states that are going to go to the GOP in November anyway. Who cares?
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Old 02-15-2020, 07:13 PM   #518
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This is so true. As was said a couple days ago. People vote their interests. Why would people getting top notch, free health care, vote to put up a candidate that would give them free, but maybe not as accessible care, or they may need to change their providers, and also have their taxes go up.

Pair that with the fact that Biden is also very pro-union. It's sorta a no brainer.


I’m not sure you understand how Medicare for all would work. Nor am I sure you get how the health insurance system works. Ok, that’s maybe not fair to say, you’re not dumb. But... their healthcare isn’t “free” in any way. A job benefit is 100% an employer cost, and one would only hope that the mandate for implementation of a single payer healthcare system would explicitly state that those employer costs must be passed along to the employees at their total value. When an employer is paying the union members in benefits, and they’re paying for their dependents too, they’re literally paying an insurer hundreds of dollars per month per person. It’s not free.

There also is no notion of “changing providers” because the notion of healthcare being a product ceases to exist.

And it doesn’t need to be said any further... taxes go up, yes, and you no longer have a monthly premium. In a situation like this, there’s no fucking difference between withholding of taxes and withholding of benefits. Absolutely no difference. Especially not to hospitality workers, who wouldn’t be a part of the tax bracket you would expect to be “paying more.” Which, it’s not clear that someone actually has to pay more or not, because no actual plan has diffed the two systems.
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Old 02-15-2020, 07:20 PM   #519
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https://www.thelancet.com/journals/l...019-3/fulltext

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Improving the prognosis of health care in the USA
Prof. Alison P Galvani PhD, Alyssa S Parpia MPH, Eric M Foster, Burton H Singer PhD, Meagan C Fitzpatrick, PhD
Published: February 15, 2020

Summary

Although health care expenditure per capita is higher in the USA than in any other country, more than 37 million Americans do not have health insurance, and 41 million more have inadequate access to care. Efforts are ongoing to repeal the Affordable Care Act which would exacerbate health-care inequities. By contrast, a universal system, such as that proposed in the Medicare for All Act, has the potential to transform the availability and efficiency of American health-care services. Taking into account both the costs of coverage expansion and the savings that would be achieved through the Medicare for All Act, we calculate that a single-payer, universal health-care system is likely to lead to a 13% savings in national health-care expenditure, equivalent to more than US$450 billion annually (based on the value of the US$ in 2017). The entire system could be funded with less financial outlay than is incurred by employers and households paying for health-care premiums combined with existing government allocations. This shift to single-payer health care would provide the greatest relief to lower-income households. Furthermore, we estimate that ensuring health-care access for all Americans would save more than 68 000 lives and 1·73 million life-years every year compared with the status quo.
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Old 02-15-2020, 07:44 PM   #520
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I was at a great exhibit at the NY Historical Society last eve about Bill Graham gifted rock promoter (Live Aid w as one of his later efforts w their pay-what-you-wish fri eve policy, so belated . .


Oh, and I picked up a copy of The Constitution at their gift shop.
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