US Politics XIX: Just an Echo Chamber Living In Your Heads

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Nothing says you care about the well beings of others like threatening the well being of others who don't agree or act as you do. The extreme left cares so much about minorities that they're willing to let them all be put into cages, arrested, or murdered because some of us didn't vote for their God.

Politics has turned into cult personalities now. It's a religion. It's not really about the values being promoted, it's about following dear leader. For He is PURE!!! And damn it, when I vote it's about ME.
 
DaveC said:
he's clearly talking about elected officials and public figures, not just random "libs", but by all means don't let a little thing like context get in the way of the daily fearmongering.

https://twitter.com/DavidKlion/status/1228356058680381445

https://twitter.com/DavidKlion/status/1228356547866169345

https://twitter.com/DavidKlion/status/1228363557747732487
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Is this how we should be talking to each other though? Why not spare the drama and just state, hey if you support Mike, I support your opponent
 
i'm not a fan of the needlessly-ominous tone, but the pearl-clutching over a journalist saying what essentially amounts to "we will call out hypocrisy from our public representatives" is silly.
 
BEAL said:
Is this how we should be talking to each other though? Why not spare the drama and just state, hey if you support Mike, I support your opponent
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No, you have to say that anyone who votes for a person that you disagree with lacks integrity.

EVERYONE out there who votes is motivated by self-interest to varying degrees. It's no surprise that college-aged voters like the concept of loan forgiveness or free tuition. Just like it's no surprise that old Evangelicals like the concept of Presidents going on about Jesus like they're at the pulpit. And like upper middle class people care about their tax rates.

The Trump voters have absolutely no qualms about admitting that they're voting for their own interests (guns, no scary brown people, no more immigrants stealing their jobs, etc). The centrists are sort of uncomfortable about it. But the far left appears to be the only group that actually equates morality with their votes and brandishes everyone else as having no integrity, claiming that they're the only ones selflessly voting for the greater good. While they are all voting for issues that are self-serving just like the rest of us.

It's tiresome.
 
Bill Bar: "Trump, girl, you gotta stop tweeting about the crimes i'm covering up because i got more crimes to cover up and i might not be able to cover them up so well if you keep tweeting about my crimes."

WASHINGTON — Attorney General William P. Barr has assigned an outside prosecutor to scrutinize the criminal case against President Trump’s former national security adviser Michael T. Flynn, according to people familiar with the matter.

The review is highly unusual and could trigger more accusations of political interference by top Justice Department officials into the work of career prosecutors.

Mr. Barr has also installed a handful of outside prosecutors to broadly review the handling of other politically sensitive national-security cases in the U.S. attorney’s office in Washington, the people said. The team includes at least one prosecutor from the office of the United States attorney in St. Louis, Jeff Jensen, who is handling the Flynn matter, as well as prosecutors from the office of the deputy attorney general, Jeffrey A. Rosen.


https://www.nytimes.com/2020/02/14/...3AQqiGALiol4kE7bvZg_SV1PQwCkK4S5GKgRS_f1NIv_o
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anitram said:
But the far left appears to be the only group that actually equates morality with their votes and brandishes everyone else as having no integrity, claiming that they're the only ones selflessly voting for the greater good. While they are all voting for issues that are self-serving just like the rest of us.
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and some of us believe that a maximalist approach to politics -- especially when coupled with shaming -- is the approach most likely to fail and accomplish nothing, whereas a careful, moderate approach might win real, measurable successes which can be subsequently built up on.
 
https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status/1228387271847686145?s=21

Barr is trying to undo everything about the Mueller Report / Investigation

Seems likely that Barr also stopped Mueller from continuing. Literally weeks after being appointed it was over despite it never actually feeling it it was finished.

We still have next to no information from the report due to all the redactions

Edit: not the report but the grand jury details plus redactions elsewhere
 
BEAL said:
This election has to be one single issue for the Dems, BEAT TRUMP.

Do your policy thing once you've gotten into office.
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This. And if a Democrat gets into office and isn't doing things well enough to the left's satisfaction, then voters can go from there and continue to push and demand the kind of change they want to see. That's how this stuff works.

Also, because it needs to be repeated, apparently, we could have the most progressive, leftist Democrat this country's ever seen become president, but all their dream plans won't go anywhere if they're stuck contending with a Republican-led Senate who'll fight them at every turn. So while discussing who our next president will be is obviously important, I'd also like to focus on getting the Senate to turn blue.

But yes, seriously, the Democrats, be they moderate or farther left-leaning, need to shut the hell up with all the stupid infighting and yelling about who's more liberal than thou and whatnot already and work together. We're all basically on the same side when it comes to supporting the big policies, after all, and we all want Trump and his cronies out of here as soon as humanly possible. Rallying together on those two things really shouldn't be that fucking hard.
 
here's a poll taken in the past few days by the AARP where 55% of respondents were age 54 or older, that shows sanders up by 7 points in nevada:

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/...-finds-1957583/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

and they're probably even undercounting young voters in this because in the survey 5% of respondents were 18-24 years old, whereas turnout for that same age bracket in the 2016 NV caucus was 13%.

but i thought all the olds think he's a scary commie and only millennials who don't vote and angry twitter trolls and peef actually like him.
 
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DaveC said:
here's a poll taken in the past few days by the AARP where 55% of respondents were age 54 or older, that shows sanders up by 7 points in nevada:

https://www.reviewjournal.com/news/...-finds-1957583/amp/?__twitter_impression=true

and they're probably even undercounting young voters in this because in the survey 5% of respondents were 18-24 years old, whereas turnout for that same age bracket in the 2016 NV caucus was 13%.

but i thought all the olds think he's a scary commie and only millennials who don't vote and angry twitter trolls and peef actually like him.
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Well. Are you sure? Cause I looked at 538 for the poll. First, the poll is not rated well by 538. Second, small sample size, with an almost 5% margin of error. Third, there isn't even poll information to look at. No methodology or cross tabs to see what age groups voted for whom. That's really odd for a poll on 538.

But then you're assuming that this poll shows that Bernie did awesome with older voters .
This by no means shows that result

Look at Iowa and NH at how Bernie did.

Iowa
18-29 – 53%
30-39 - 35%
40-49 – 24%
50-64 – 10%
65+ - 8%

NH
18-29 – 51%
30-44 - 36%
45-64 – 19%
65+ - 14%

There were 413 respondents to this poll of which Sanders got 25%, which means he got 103 people choosing him.
So below is an example of how the responses could have come back.

18-24 years = 22 Sanders gets 52% = 12
25-34 years = 45 Sanders gets 47% = 22
35-44 years = 45 Sanders gets 38% = 17
45-54 years = 54 Sanders gets 32% = 17
55-64 years = 83 Sanders gets 18% = 15
65-74 years = 95 Sanders gets 12 % = 12
75+ = 49 Sanders gets 9% = 5

Total = 100

History would show that he is getting around the same results
 
womanfish said:
There were 413 respondents to this poll of which Sanders got 25%, which means he got 103 people choosing him.
So below is an example of how the responses could have come back.

18-24 years = 22 Sanders gets 52% = 12
25-34 years = 45 Sanders gets 47% = 22
35-44 years = 45 Sanders gets 38% = 17
45-54 years = 54 Sanders gets 32% = 17
55-64 years = 83 Sanders gets 18% = 15
65-74 years = 95 Sanders gets 12 % = 12
75+ = 49 Sanders gets 9% = 5

Total = 100

History would show that he is getting around the same results
Click to expand...

yeah the demographics of iowa and new hampshire and nevada are similar enough that this is totally a valid and very scientific method.
 
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DaveC said:
yeah the demographics of iowa and new hampshire and nevada are similar enough that this is totally a valid and very scientific method.
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Yeah, it's more likely that Sanders bucked every poll and both demographic results from the first two primaries, and suddenly got a surge of support from the 60 plus crowd. Especially in a state with 6 times the percentage of black voters as NH and 3 times as many as IA.
 
no it probably won't be wildly different. but there are a lot of people who are retired or approaching that age in nevada who have been or were in hospitality and service industry unions for a really long time who are likely to be particularly receptive to his message. i get why the unions want to keep control of their health insurance, but on most other things they seem to align with sanders the most. the dipshit trolls going after the people running the culinary union really ought to stop because they're driving away a potential ally.
 
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even though we obviously all have our own opinions on who the candidate should be, and we're in for a long 8.5ish months, i want you all to know that i love you and happy valentine's day. :heart:
 
DaveC said:
even though we obviously all have our own opinions on who the candidate should be, and we're in for a long 8.5ish months, i want you all to know that i love you and happy valentine's day. [emoji813]
Click to expand...
7KcZFc.gif
 
DaveC said:
no it probably won't be wildly different. but there are a lot of people who are retired or approaching that age in nevada who have been or were in hospitality and service industry unions for a really long time who are likely to be particularly receptive to his message. i get why the unions want to keep control of their health insurance, but on most other things they seem to align with sanders the most. the dipshit trolls going after the people running the culinary union really ought to stop because they're driving away a potential ally.
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The hospitality unions, culinary in particular, don't just have good health care... they have amazing health care. Culinary Union health care in Nevada is free. Not a dime is taken from the employee's pay check - and that includes coverage for their families. There are no deductables. The care itself is heavily discounted, and they have supplementary funds set up in case of serious illness. The union has set up their own pharmacy for free generic medications - no copay.

The union also provides interest free housing loans and a very generous pension plan.

They are VERY strong and united. Attacking their leadership was galactically stupid.

It'll be interesting to see how it plays out, as this is a union that will be very united and very reluctant to give up their health care plan.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
The hospitality unions, culinary in particular, don't just have good health care... they have amazing health care. Culinary Union health care in Nevada is free. Not a dime is taken from the employee's pay check - and that includes coverage for their families. There are no deductables. The care itself is heavily discounted, and they have supplementary funds set up in case of serious illness. The union has set up their own pharmacy for free generic medications - no copay.
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This is what I’ve been saying and what people — often non-Americans who hear horror stories of bankruptcy or that one Bernie Bro who apparently died because of Hillary Clinton — don’t hear nearly enough. Many people love their health care. There are gigantic problems and it’s too expensive, yes, but the care itself in the US is second to none, and when you get an actual good plan that works very well for you and your family, it’s asking a lot to give all that up. My super-Bernie relatives get unbelievably good health care ... from their employer. They don’t like to talk about that.

Let’s start with a public optio.
 
Irvine511 said:
Many people love their health care.
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This is a stretch of a true statement. Do some people like their healthcare plan? Sure. Does that mean they love their healthcare? This is a repeatedly polled question with mixed results. Depending upon how it’s asked, you sometimes see upwards towards 70% saying they like their healthcare, whereas other times you’ll see only a third of the country would rate their healthcare as “good” or “excellent.”


Irvine511 said:
but the care itself in the US is second to none,
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This also just isn’t true at all. The myths and lies that have been propagated to Americans are things straight out of lobbyist playbooks. What, these false notions of extremely wait times in British hospitals etc? So so so false. We have similar wait time issues, and it’s not at every hospital. I’ve personally used multiple national healthcare systems. The care you get? Sure we are a developed nation and we have well trained doctors that operate sophisticated systems. It’s not better than any other developed nation. And the accessibility yo the care, to me, gives the benefit of the doubt to the other systems.

Irvine511 said:
Let’s start with a public optio.
Click to expand...

The public option is not a real thing. It is state-sponsored insurance, not healthcare and is no different from Obamacare, so I’m not sure what you want this supposed public option to be that doesn’t already exist.

I’ve said it time and time again though - a supposed public option is a sure fire way to raise costs for some Americans, without decreasing costs for others. You’re asking individuals who already get employee benefits to pay taxes to prop up a system that they will not use. That is dumb. Unless you have a unified system, you might as well not touch a thing. There’s literally nothing you can do to make the current garbage system any better. It’s already had all the patchwork it can.
 
DaveC said:
even though we obviously all have our own opinions on who the candidate should be, and we're in for a long 8.5ish months, i want you all to know that i love you and happy valentine's day. :heart:
Click to expand...

Right on my friend. I was gonna say. This place was empty last night except for you and I. That might speak about our love life. LOL. But I do love hearing everyone's point of view here. We kind of have a microcosm of what's going on out there in the larger electorate. And it does give a good gauge of how different people are viewing things.

cheers to everyone here!
 
I was at a bar with another american, an Australian, an Irish(wo)man, and a South African. In London.

I can (not so) proudly say we were the loudest table and had way too much to drink and they hated us everywhere we went.

But also I was quiet :p
 
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