United States of Entropy Part 2

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by digitize

I'm very strongly pro-immigration, but it's impossible to permanently base funding entitlement programs off of a steady stream of immigrants.

Agreed, but it sure helps keep the population younger than it would be.

[INDY500]

The math always catches up to a Ponzi scheme.

[U2DMfan]

I read that if we'd just raise the cap on the SS tax, it would comfortably solve the problem. Hell, it's so easy, you know it will never happen.

Mostly because Grover Norquist has half of American Government by the balls. Why? Because he can defeat those politicians in primaries and that's all the politicians care about - staying if office. And Norquist does it by working on behalf of the super rich, under the guise of keeping taxes low for everybody (that's the plausibly denied politics of it) and "small government". Yes, Norquist, hired by Ronald Reagan, the effective founder of modern Big Government conservatism. All the while continuing to keep millions upon millions of Americans voting against their own best interests, while using political ploys to frame everything as Us vs Them, Makers vs Takers and so on.

[U2DMfan]

Sorry, I just can't resist.

Originally Posted by INDY500

The math always catches up to a Ponzi scheme.

If you can fund it (not that they are, but that they can), it's not a Ponzi scheme.

If you don't like it only because decades of cynical politics has somehow convinced you that it's a bad thing, then it's a "Ponzi Scheme". Although that makes no sense, but why would it need to make any sense?

It's nothing more than a 'good line' to use in a bullshit partisan argument. That's why the political hack that came up with it started using it in the place. It doesn't have to make sense, it just has to be a good barb.

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by U2DMfan

Sorry, I just can't resist.



If you can fund it (not that they are, but that they can), it's not a Ponzi scheme.

If you don't like it only because decades of cynical politics has somehow convinced you that it's a bad thing, then it's a "Ponzi Scheme". Although that makes no sense, but why would it need to make any sense?

It's nothing more than a 'good line' to use in a bullshit partisan argument. That's why the political hack that came up with it started using it in the place. It doesn't have to make sense, it just has to be a good barb.

It spends more than it receives in revenue.
There is only an IOU in the Social Security "lockbox."
The unfunded liability of Soc sec is $10 trillion.

Run a pension plan like that in the private sector and you'd be in jail.

And Europe faces the same demographic problem of funding its Welfare state.

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by U2DMfan

I read that if we'd just raise the cap on the SS tax, it would comfortably solve the problem. Hell, it's so easy, you know it will never happen.

Of course, higher and higher taxes. It's so easy.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Of course, higher and higher taxes. It's so easy.

Present taxes are at historic lows.

It's difficult to take seriously a party that spent 8 years starting wars and gutting revenues via tax breaks for the wealthy to then act as if they know anything about fiscal responsibility.

Let's talk about Obama's tumbling deficits and the Clinton surpluses and the 1990s tax rates.

[U2DMfan]

Originally Posted by INDY500

It spends more than it receives in revenue.
There is only an IOU in the Social Security "lockbox."
The unfunded liability of Soc sec is $10 trillion.

Run a pension plan like that in the private sector and you'd be in jail.

And Europe faces the same demographic problem of funding its Welfare state.

A lot of people spend more money than they make, are they Ponzi schemes too?

Clearly SS is unfunded that far out in the future, but it can always be funded. A Ponzi scheme is inherently unfunded because it's never designed to be funded.

[U2DMfan]

Originally Posted by INDY500

Of course, higher and higher taxes. It's so easy.

We've had one federal tax increase in the last 20 years. And that just happened recently and it only affected people making nearly half-a-million dollars a year. We can survive another increase on the SS tax cap.

Such an increase would only apply to people making well above 100K a year. And no, it's not fair that they'd have to pay more. But many kids born into poverty have almost no chance of ever getting out of it. It's possible, but it's extremely difficult and the odds are against it. Is that fair? No.

So, as I've heard my whole life, growing up in Red State America, surrounded by fiscal conservatives that believe in personal responsibility. "Life's not fair. Get over it."

I'm pretty much still a fiscal conservative in principle, I just can't ignore the realities. And I believe very strongly in Social Security as a necessity.

I also believe in paying that bill. How else would you do it?
Do you want to get rid of Social Security? Tell us how you'd fix the problem.

[INDY500]

Originally Posted by U2DMfan

We've had one federal tax increase in the last 20 years. And that just happened recently and it only affected people making nearly half-a-million dollars a year. We can survive another increase on the SS tax cap.

Such an increase would only apply to people making well above 100K a year. And no, it's not fair that they'd have to pay more. But many kids born into poverty have almost no chance of ever getting out of it. It's possible, but it's extremely difficult and the odds are against it. Is that fair? No.

So, as I've heard my whole life, growing up in Red State America, surrounded by fiscal conservatives that believe in personal responsibility. "Life's not fair. Get over it."

I'm pretty much still a fiscal conservative in principle, I just can't ignore the realities. And I believe very strongly in Social Security as a necessity.

I also believe in paying that bill. How else would you do it?
Do you want to get rid of Social Security? Tell us how you'd fix the problem.

Adjust the retirement age to account for the longer lifespan.

Allow an opt-out with proof of an individual retirement account.

Crackdown on Social Security Disability fraud. Even 60 Minutes took note of the enrollment explosion of the past 5 years.

That's only 3 things but it's three things more than this administration will do.