Unequal Pay

[MrsSpringsteen]

Unbelievable. Both actors represented by the same agency. Quite a pay discrepancy. Not to mention, as stated, that Sony calls Michelle Williams lead actress while Wahlberg is supporting.

Michelle Williams was doing the honorable thing, accepting very little for the reshoots necessitated by dropping Spacey. Would guess she never knew that Wahlberg made so much. He's also the most overpaid actor, as stated in this article. What he's paid vs his box office returns.

Also that situation with Cat Sadler on the E channel, making much less than her male cohost. She quit because of that. On the E Golden Globes red carpet show several actresses called them out for that. I think time should be up for unequal pay for equal work.

https://www.boston.com/culture/enter...less-than-1000

[MrsSpringsteen]

Mark Wahlberg donated his 1.5 million to the Time's Up legal fund. In the name of Michelle Williams.

[Nick66]

What a stupid fiasco.

Apparently, neither actor was contractually required to return for reshoots. When Wahlberg was approached, he asked for 1.5 million and got it. Williams reportedly didn't make any such demands and agreed to do it basically for per diem. What she should have done is said "Sure, I'll come back, pay me what you're paying Wahlberg." Should the studio just paid her more to be nice? Again, why didn't she press for more? If she was needed for the reshoots, she had leverage. If she was just being a reasonable person and not holding the studio over a barrel, great. In fact she said as much...

“When this idea was hatched — that we were gonna go in and try to rewrite history — I was on the frontline,” Williams explained. “I was like, ‘You can have my salary, you can just take it, I don’t even do it… that’s not why I work. If that’ll help you, you can have it, you can have my break and you can have whatever and I’ll just be there waiting.'”

And Wahlberg might have been an unreasonable SOB by demanding all that money. So? The problem, IMO, is they're both rep'd by the same agency. How do people, who are supposed to be representing her interests, allow this to happen? Sounds like a big fail on the part of her agent. Has nothing to do with Wahlberg though, or the patriarchy.

Wahlberg was the highest paid actor of 2017. He took a pay cut to take this gig. The film also is being marketed strongly overseas based on Wahlberg's name...and he's undoubtedly a bigger star (though I have no idea why, he's in a lot of flops). Williams is the stronger actor, IMO, but that's irrelevant. So is the fact that he's support and she's the lead. That's not how movie stars are paid. What does "equal" pay mean in Hollywood anyway? Does anyone think Daisey Ridley should have made more for The Force Awakens than Harrison Ford, even though she's the central character in the film? Is it "fair" that Jennifer Lawrence got paid 20 mil (plus points) for Passengers and Chris Pratt got paid 12 mil, even though he's in more of the movie? Isn't that "unequal"?

Female actors, all other things being equal, should not be paid less than their male peers simply because they're female. That's gender discrimination, flat out. But there are a LOT of intangibles on how these people are paid. So why is Wahlberg negotiating more money for himself, and now donating it? PR, that's it. He didn't do anything wrong. Nor did the studio as far as I can see. This is just another Twitter meltdown where people don't know all the facts and freak out.

That's not to say there's not a ton of sexism and gender discrimination in Hollywood, there certainly is, the place is rife with it. Actresses have been exploited, harassed and screwed over by Hollywood for way too long. I just think there are plenty of examples of all that better than this. This sounds to me like one performer negotiating a better deal than his co-star.

[MrsSpringsteen]

Jennifer Lawrence got paid more than Chris Pratt because she's a bigger box office generator. Which isn't true for Wahlberg, according to the stats in the original article. Michelle Williams had no idea he was paid that much, that's how these things happen.

The most overpaid actor in Hollywood and a very respected actress, repped by the same agency. One has a vagina. I can do the math.

It's a microcosm of pay inequality in general. Pay inequality that still exists in 2018.

[cobl04]

Originally Posted by Nick66

What a stupid fiasco.

Apparently, neither actor was contractually required to return for reshoots. When Wahlberg was approached, he asked for 1.5 million and got it. Williams reportedly didn't make any such demands and agreed to do it basically for per diem. What she should have done is said "Sure, I'll come back, pay me what you're paying Wahlberg." Should the studio just paid her more to be nice? Again, why didn't she press for more? If she was needed for the reshoots, she had leverage. If she was just being a reasonable person and not holding the studio over a barrel, great. In fact she said as much...



And Wahlberg might have been an unreasonable SOB by demanding all that money. So? The problem, IMO, is they're both rep'd by the same agency. How do people, who are supposed to be representing her interests, allow this to happen? Sounds like a big fail on the part of her agent. Has nothing to do with Wahlberg though, or the patriarchy.

Wahlberg was the highest paid actor of 2017. He took a pay cut to take this gig. The film also is being marketed strongly overseas based on Wahlberg's name...and he's undoubtedly a bigger star (though I have no idea why, he's in a lot of flops). Williams is the stronger actor, IMO, but that's irrelevant. So is the fact that he's support and she's the lead. That's not how movie stars are paid. What does "equal" pay mean in Hollywood anyway? Does anyone think Daisey Ridley should have made more for The Force Awakens than Harrison Ford, even though she's the central character in the film? Is it "fair" that Jennifer Lawrence got paid 20 mil (plus points) for Passengers and Chris Pratt got paid 12 mil, even though he's in more of the movie? Isn't that "unequal"?

Female actors, all other things being equal, should not be paid less than their male peers simply because they're female. That's gender discrimination, flat out. But there are a LOT of intangibles on how these people are paid. So why is Wahlberg negotiating more money for himself, and now donating it? PR, that's it. He didn't do anything wrong. Nor did the studio as far as I can see. This is just another Twitter meltdown where people don't know all the facts and freak out.

That's not to say there's not a ton of sexism and gender discrimination in Hollywood, there certainly is, the place is rife with it. Actresses have been exploited, harassed and screwed over by Hollywood for way too long. I just think there are plenty of examples of all that better than this. This sounds to me like one performer negotiating a better deal than his co-star.

What a hill to die on.

[Hewson]

Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen

Jennifer Lawrence got paid more than Chris Pratt because she's a bigger box office generator. Which isn't true for Wahlberg, according to the stats in the original article. .

Wahlberg is a much bigger box office generator than Michelle Williams.


Mark Wahlberg Movie Box Office Results


Michelle Williams Movie Box Office Results

Whether or not he's overpaid is a different argument, but his draw is definitely bigger than hers, 2.9 Billion to 816 million over their careers (domestic), average draw of 70Mil for Wahlberg Movies vs 28Mil for Williams' movies.

Obviously the style of movies has a lot to do with that, but to say Wahlberg is less of a box office generator than Williams is wrong.

The problem with this particular situation definitely lies with the agency that represents both of them

[Nick66]

Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen

Jennifer Lawrence got paid more than Chris Pratt because she's a bigger box office generator. Which isn't true for Wahlberg, according to the stats in the original article. Michelle Williams had no idea he was paid that much, that's how these things happen.

The most overpaid actor in Hollywood and a very respected actress, repped by the same agency. One has a vagina. I can do the math.

It's a microcosm of pay inequality in general. Pay inequality that still exists in 2018.

You might want to check your math. Actually, Pratt and Lawrence are a lot closer in box office than Wahlberg and Williams (who aren't close at all).

Jennifer Lawrence: Lifetime Gross Total: $2,486,696,187 (Domestic)
Chris Pratt: $2,083,204,577 (Domestic)

And Pratt's average is actually higher than Lawrence's...approx 138 mil vs. 130 mil.

I'm not suggesting Pratt should have made as much as Lawrence...again, there are other factors at play here. As there was with the Williams case. She's not nearly as big a star as Wahlberg, that's just a fact. How respected she is, or how good of an actress she is, has little to do with it (if it did, Meryl Streep would be the highest paid actress, and she's not by far). And Wahlberg has been in a lot of "blockbusters"...he has much more international name recognition.

But the facts don't support your suggestion that she got paid less because she "has a vagina". That's absurd. As I said previously, that happens in Hollywood, much more than it should. But this just isn't a good example of it. As I and other have said, it's her agency who failed her in this case.

[DaveC]

Originally Posted by Nick66

Not really.

i'm just going to start reporting these posts from you that serve no other purpose than to be a condescending asshole.

edit: lol nice edit, good thing i got it quoted for when diemen comes to check out the report i sent him. for the record, the entire post was nick quoting only mrsspringsteen's "i can do the math" and replying with this pretentious douchery above before editing it into an actual post.

[Hewson]

And the argument the article cites about Wahlberg being overpaid is a bit flawed as well (and quite typical of the Boston Globe/Boston.com to not tell the complete story).
Foreign box office needs to be taken into account as well. And the last 2 Transformers movies which starred Wahlberg made huge money outside the US, including 320 Mil and 228 Mil in China alone. Now of course Wahlberg is by no means the main draw there, but he was top billed in both films and they made a fortune overseas.


Edit...and I just noticed this gem from the article that names Wahlberg the most overpaid actor of 2017:

To create this ranking, Forbes looked at the last one to three films that actors released prior to June 1, 2017, excluding animated movies, projects in which actors had small roles, and releases shown on fewer than 2,000 screens. For Wahlberg, Forbes included Patriots Day (which earned $50.5 million at the box office) and Deepwater Horizon (which brought in $121.8 million). The cutoff date ruled out Transformers: The Last Knight and Daddy’s Home 2.

So just leave off the 2 films that made the most in his year including one that earned over 600 Million worldwide. That's damn fine reporting. Not sure when the calendar started declaring June 1 as year's end.

[mama cass]

didn't Harrison Ford get paid a lot more than Mark Hamill in the later Star Wars? and wasn't it the other way round initially?

again, why base such important discussions on the alien bubble that is Hollywood? wouldn't it be more interesting and pertinent to look at unequal pay in normal life, like, for the masses? would be interesting to hear personal experiences on this...

in my early experience as a graduate salaried worker, i was paid the same as my male colleagues doing the same job... wages should be based on skills for the job, and not gender... we have the minimum wage here in France, which is thankfully the same for men and women

[Nick66]

Originally Posted by DaveC

i'm just going to start reporting these posts from you that serve no other purpose than to be a condescending asshole.

That's OK...you can post one of your funny memes and get slammed again like last time.

[DaveC]

Originally Posted by Nick66

That's OK...you can post one of your funny memes and get slammed again like last time.

i have no idea what you're even talking about. when have i ever been one to post "funny memes" here?

[Nick66]

It's all about self-awareness.

And now, if you don't mind, I'll bow out of this. No desire to be accused to continuing an argument. You just report away.

[DaveC]

Originally Posted by Nick66

It's all about self-awareness.

And now, if you don't mind, I'll bow out of this. No desire to be accused to continuing an argument. You just report away.

nice to know that you'll just make shit up about people and then smugly walk away when challenged on it. that's some fine strawmannery

i really wish you had stayed the hell out of FYM and not proceeded to destroy the respect i previously had for you, but i guess that ship has sailed.

[Nick66]

Originally Posted by mama cass

didn't Harrison Ford get paid a lot more than Mark Hamill in the later Star Wars? and wasn't it the other way round initially?

again, why base such important discussions on the alien bubble that is Hollywood? wouldn't it be more interesting and pertinent to look at unequal pay in normal life, like, for the masses? would be interesting to hear personal experiences on this...

in my early experience as a graduate salaried worker, i was paid the same as my male colleagues doing the same job... wages should be based on skills for the job, and not gender... we have the minimum wage here in France, which is thankfully the same for men and women

Ford got paid something like 20 mil for the last Star Wars film he was in, and I believe Hammill got one million. Daisy Ridley got 200,000 I believe, even though she's the main character in the movie. Ford got that bank for obvious reasons.

And you're right, Hollywood is about the worst barometer we can use for all this stuff. There's little to nothing representative about it.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Say hello to ya motha faw me

[MrsSpringsteen]

I could talk about actual unequal pay, thought this might actually inspire such discussion. But I don't think anyone's interested in the subject. Other than the few women who post here who have actually been affected by it. Previous attempts to discuss it over the years haven't amounted to much.

You have far more free time than I do Nick, to actually look all that up. It seems to be extremely important to you to be right about anything and everything . Good on you? Won't say what I'd really like to say.

I can do math, thanks. I have a college degree too. Your targeting is obvious.

[Hewson]

Originally Posted by Nick66

Ford got paid something like 20 mil for the last Star Wars film he was in, and I believe Hammill got one million. Daisy Ridley got 200,000 I believe, even though she's the main character in the movie. Ford got that bank for obvious reasons.

And you're right, Hollywood is about the worst barometer we can use for all this stuff. There's little to nothing representative about it.

And the original Star Wars in 1977, Ford got 10K and no royalties, and Hamill got 650K plus a small percent of profits.

Things changed quickly for Ford after that though.

Ford is still listed as the highest grossing actor in history according to IMDB.

[Moonlit_Angel]

Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen

I could talk about actual unequal pay, thought this might actually inspire such discussion. But I don't think anyone's interested in the subject. Other than the few women who post here who have actually been affected by it. Previous attempts to discuss it over the years haven't amounted to much.

I'm willing to have a proper discussion on the topic. I can't speak to any personal experience with pay issues-I honestly have no clue what any of my co-workers have ever made at any jobs I've worked at over the years, and what's more, all the jobs I've worked at thus far, I've had female bosses and mostly female co-workers. So I haven't had to really deal with the gender issues between co-workers that others have (at least, not that I'm aware of, anyway).

But I fully agree that this is an important discussion worth having, and I'd like to hear more from those of you who have noticed or experienced unequal pay situations, and see how you/your workplaces dealt with it (or if the workplaces even dealt with it at all). And it'd be good to discuss various ways we can and should tackle this issue on a national scale, too.

[anitram]

It's really hard to have this discussion because most of the unequal pay statistics out there are not terribly helpful and are very much skewed by the fact that there are many more high-income-earning men than women. The problem these days is not so much that Jack and Jane doing the exact same job are paid differently but the odds that Jack is Jane's boss.

This in turn requires a proper evaluation of why there are more men in those positions. Some of it is historical bias, some of it is institutional sexism, some of it is much more nuanced sexism, some of it is self-selection out by women often for family reasons (and there are sexism issues underlying these decisions as well), some of it is workplace inflexibility and so on. It's a hugely complicated issue with few easy solutions.