U.S. and Allies Strike Libya

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This was no US solo action, so he can't take credit.


he can certainly share credit. and the reason he can is because the GOP are presently congratulating the UK and France, but not the president, because they refuse to give him any credit for anything.

don't forget, Obama and Hillary received enormous criticism from both the right and the left, so just because it wasn't a solo action doesn't mean that it wasn't without controversy, or that there isn't credit to be given afterward.

i'm glad it wasn't a solo action. things tend to suck when we do them alone.





It would be a great victory if Obama could step up to the Cairo talk about Palestinian state though.


i agree.

sadly, the Republican Party is further to the right on this issue than even the Likud.
 
I suppose this is good news. At least he is symbolic of the old regime. Now the long task of establishing democracy with foreign influence in Libya.

Is it a good thing that an ancient society is now open for business? Is the West really welcome? Libyan people must know they have intentions.
 
"Is there no Republican that can be gracious and statesmanlike in this situation? We removed a dictator in six months losing no American soldiers, spending, like, a billlion dollars rather than a trillion dollars, and engendering what appears to be good will to people who now have a story of their own indpendence to tell. Anybody want to give credit? What the f**k is wrong with you people?" ~ Jon Stewart



leading from behind, ftw. :up:
 
Well supposedly the insurgents killed him with his own gun, or he was killed in crossfire. Whatever the real story is. The airstrike made him crawl into the drainpipe so I suppose indirectly they played a part. I guess they aided the insurgents too.

I don't know about no US troops on the ground, who knows what really happened there.
 
I think it is important that it looks like the rebels got him. I am sure that Western Allies did most of the 'heavy lifting' and turned the tide in this battle. I am glad a tyrant is gone and Libya is moving forward.

But really, he is one man. Are all Libyans going to start adhere to principles or democracy? It will take generations before the country starts to see some progress.

That is some serious karma. Dying like a rat in a sewer.

Here's to Libya's future.
 
I think it is important that it looks like the rebels got him. I am sure that Western Allies did most of the 'heavy lifting' and turned the tide in this battle. I am glad a tyrant is gone and Libya is moving forward.

I bloody well hope so but I'm hardly confident about it.
 
I think it is important that it looks like the rebels got him. I am sure that Western Allies did most of the 'heavy lifting' and turned the tide in this battle. I am glad a tyrant is gone and Libya is moving forward.

But really, he is one man. Are all Libyans going to start adhere to principles or democracy? It will take generations before the country starts to see some progress.

That is some serious karma. Dying like a rat in a sewer.

Here's to Libya's future.

:up:

I wouldn't have minded him being blown-up in an airplane on his way to The Hague. I think karma would have kicked him in the nuts when he realized he was the only person on board.
 
Anyone that approves of the manner of Ghadaffi's brutal execution is clearly sick. As a matter of fact, even the bare fact of his execution in the absence of judicial process was a criminal act. Even if you fulsomely support the Libyan revolution, you would have to acknowledge that.

In relation to the photos and footage of his murder that it has been hard to avoid over the past few days, I can only guess that the neo-liberal/Bilderberg establishment believe, probably correctly, that it helps de-humanise us to be repeatedly exposed to stuff like that. That is why we are bombarded with it at every turn. Newspapers, 6 o' clock news, etc etc. Well, call me old-fashioned, but I believe in basic human rights for everyone. Looks like that's a far out, controversial opinion in these times!

Hilary Clinton in particular is fairly obviously a psychopath. The way I see it, the western world is run by people at least as brutal as Saddam or Ghaddafi.

We are living in a very scary and inhumane age.
 
Nothing defines the post-Gaddafi National Transitional Council (NTC) regime better than the shockingly brutal manner in which Colonel Moammar Gaddafi was literally beaten to death after his capture on Thursday in Sirte. To reiterate the cliché that all is fair in love and war in this context is no comfort. The reports and footage of Gaddafi’s last moments are nothing short of hair-raising. This was a barbaric act in the extreme. With its usual expedient blinkers where its interests are concerned, the west, whether governments or the media, have tucked away their moral compass somewhere out of sight and convenient. The NTC pro-west regime they are triumphantly supporting is less likely to be, as the Libyan Ambassador in London claimed, a state ruled by law so much as a western imperialist satrap. Given that this treatment of a captured leader was not the first manifestation of the brutality of the NTC fighters (note the violence perpetrated against unarmed migrant African workers captured by the NTC and accused of being Gaddafi mercenaries without any proof), what is the explanation for this barbarism?

The NTC forces include al Qaeda affiliated groups who have been trying to overthrow Gaddafi through armed uprisings (especially in eastern Libya) over the years. Ironically, the very west that claims to be fighting al Qaeda worldwide turned a convenient blind eye to the troubling inclusion of these extremist jihadi groups in the NTC ranks. One faction of these al Qaeda affiliates was held responsible for the murder of a Gaddafi regime senior general who defected to the rebels and was leading their military campaign. Yet to date, no one has been held accountable for this murder. Libya presents the picture of the pattern likely to be used by the west from now on to take out regimes that oppose its imperialist ambitions. The model is to use local dissident or rebellious forces on the ground, supported by the US and Nato’s overwhelming technological superiority in air power, missiles and other 'remote’ weapons to help crush regimes that do not play ball with the west. US President Obama boasted after Gaddafi’s brutal end was confirmed that not one American life had been lost in the Libyan campaign. What he conveniently forgot to mention was the role of covert special forces attached to the NTC rebels that arguably helped and directed their relatively amateur military efforts. Obama’s triumphalism pulled whatever thin fig leaf was put up by Washington under the rubric 'leading from behind’.

Like in any detective novel, the two critical questions to be asked are: motive, and beneficiary, to determine the villain of the piece. Libya’s oil and gas riches are what the US-led west has been slavering over for a very long time. Gaddafi’s support to anti-imperialist movements worldwide earned him more than a fair share of the ire of the powers that be in our (still) post-Cold War unipolar world. France and Britain, that led the anti-Gaddafi pack, are licking their lips over the lucrative ingress they have gained through bringing the NTC to power into Libya’s oil and gas. As in Iraq, energy sources and imperialist intervention have a symbiotic relationship.

Shocking brutality :: www.uruknet.info :: informazione dal medio oriente :: information from middle east :: [vs-1]
 
Anyone that approves of the manner of Ghadaffi's brutal execution is clearly sick. As a matter of fact, even the bare fact of his execution in the absence of judicial process was a criminal act. Even if you fulsomely support the Libyan revolution, you would have to acknowledge that.

In relation to the photos and footage of his murder that it has been hard to avoid over the past few days, I can only guess that the neo-liberal/Bilderberg establishment believe, probably correctly, that it helps de-humanise us to be repeatedly exposed to stuff like that. That is why we are bombarded with it at every turn. Newspapers, 6 o' clock news, etc etc. Well, call me old-fashioned, but I believe in basic human rights for everyone. Looks like that's a far out, controversial opinion in these times!

Hilary Clinton in particular is fairly obviously a psychopath. The way I see it, the western world is run by people at least as brutal as Saddam or Ghaddafi.

We are living in a very scary and inhumane age.

Good post. I agree wholeheartedly. I can't shake the feeling that whatever will happen in Libya in the future, the people will lose.
 
Anyone that approves of the manner of Ghadaffi's brutal execution is clearly sick. As a matter of fact, even the bare fact of his execution in the absence of judicial process was a criminal act. Even if you fulsomely support the Libyan revolution, you would have to acknowledge that.

In relation to the photos and footage of his murder that it has been hard to avoid over the past few days, I can only guess that the neo-liberal/Bilderberg establishment believe, probably correctly, that it helps de-humanise us to be repeatedly exposed to stuff like that. That is why we are bombarded with it at every turn. Newspapers, 6 o' clock news, etc etc. Well, call me old-fashioned, but I believe in basic human rights for everyone. Looks like that's a far out, controversial opinion in these times!

Hilary Clinton in particular is fairly obviously a psychopath. The way I see it, the western world is run by people at least as brutal as Saddam or Ghaddafi.

We are living in a very scary and inhumane age.

Amazing how few people have spoken against the sheer idiocy contained in this post. I guess it isn't really that surprising. But let's just say if you had said a few different token things, this thread would have EXPLODED.

Even the inclusion of the term "Bilderberg" is in the vein of batshit territory.
But whatever, if you want to see it that way, you better be prepared to defy reality across the board. Calling HRC a "psychopath" is not only hilarious but more so, it is telling. Nobody became indignant with you. If you had said the same thing about the Chosen One, you'd already be a racist in the eyes of the vaunted Leftist members around here.

Truth is good. Find it.
 
Even the inclusion of the term "Bilderberg" is in the vein of batshit territory.
But whatever, if you want to see it that way, you better be prepared to defy reality across the board. Calling HRC a "psychopath" is not only hilarious but more so, it is telling. Nobody became indignant with you. If you had said the same thing about the Chosen One, you'd already be a racist in the eyes of the vaunted Leftist members around here.

Truth is good. Find it.

There are leftist members here? In FYM?
 
Amazing how few people have spoken against the sheer idiocy contained in this post. I guess it isn't really that surprising. But let's just say if you had said a few different token things, this thread would have EXPLODED.

I love the outrage you express that nobody commented on a post that was posted on Sunday night at 8:30 pm for an astounding 5 hours.
 
there is a lot of speculation on how Ghadaffi died
some are saying his own people shot him, so he would not have an opportunity to implicate others.

He chose to go down this way, he had chances to leave, like the leaders in Tunisia. He showed no mercy for his opponents, called them rats, if he captured any of them he would have surely executed them. This is what he did.

And those who think this is such a shame. It could have been much worse, we could have had the a spectacle like what occurred in Iraq with Saddam, a victor's sort of justice.
 
You know, as much as financeguy totally laid on the hyperbole, I'm surprised these two parts of his post would meet with much disagreement or disdain as "batshit":

As a matter of fact, even the bare fact of his execution in the absence of judicial process was a criminal act. Even if you fulsomely support the Libyan revolution, you would have to acknowledge that.

....

Well, call me old-fashioned, but I believe in basic human rights for everyone. Looks like that's a far out, controversial opinion in these times!

Pretty fair comments to me.
 
I do find myself a bit disturbed by how much people around the globe posting pics and video of this. Its like when any people like this die. At the end of the day, it's still another human being and I'm not about to watch what amounts to a snuff film.
 
It's perfectly okay to not feel any sympathy when seeing Gaddafi bloodied and getting kicked around. I don't give a shit about him either. But you can't call that 'justice' and then pop up in another thread decrying the death penalty or waterboarding or whatever. Be consistent. Human rights are universal for a few very good reasons. And 'we' are attempting to strengthen institutions like the ICC for a few very good reasons too.

And not to go quite as far as financeguy - he was most probably killed simply by accident, via a jumped up mob who quite possibly all had a 'personal' score to settle, and it got out of hand - but I reckon there were probably more than a few sighs of relief when he popped up dead, and not at an airport awaiting the next plane to the Hague. Again, real 'justice' would have been something very, very different.
 
This isn't a political piece.

by Blake Gopnik (Newsweek), Oct. 21
Images of Muammar Gaddafi, taken Thursday as he was battered and bleeding and then dead, are everywhere, and everyone should find them hard to look at. They operate as war porn and gore porn, not much different from the ton of less newsworthy carnage that floats free in cyberspace, and that probably shouldn’t. But we still need to look at the Gaddafi shots, I think, because pornography is only part of their story. To my Christian-trained eyes, there’s huge pathos in these images, regardless of the monster they show. Since the Middle Ages at least, Western image-making has had the sight of greatness, cast down and bloodied, right at its heart. Before any war was caught in pictures, before any artist had even painted a subject from life, Europeans already had images of a great figure--the Christ himself, King of Kings and God of Gods, as Handel has us sing in Messiah--tortured and strung up and then finally slaughtered. It goes without saying that Gaddafi himself was perfectly evil and un-Christ-like. Anyone who believes in hell imagines him there now. But our Western eyes aren’t as smart as our morals: They see those photos of Gaddafi, alive and suffering and then as a blasted corpse, and head straight to the crucifixion scenes that are the bedrock of our visual culture. Some Christians would say that this is one of the gifts that their religion and its art give them: That they can understand the suffering of Christ as standing for the suffering that anyone else could ever endure. Even in the case of someone as evil as Gaddafi, say Christians, we profit from being able to see a piece of suffering humanity in him, because what he’s enduring was also endured by God’s son. I’m the most convinced of atheists, but I like to think that the Christian images I’ve been immersed in help me see the tortured man in pictures of a monster dying.

...But looking hard at the Gaddafi photos shows that they also allow a totally different, less familiar reading that may justify their taking, and their circulation. They show Gaddafi as damaged goods, as worthless carrion, as trash. Which means that they accurately reveal, you could say, the repugnant reality that was always there under the grand surface Gaddafi liked to present to the world. With Gaddafi, the contrast isn’t just between a live guy in a dull suit and his equally dull-looking corpse, as we get with images of slaughtered Western tyrants such as Mussolini or Ceausescu. Gaddafi liked to present himself as splendid and regal; he often dressed in shades of gold, like the uniform he was wearing when he died, because he wanted to be seen as inherently precious. The greatness that he claimed wasn’t really built on particular actions and their positive results for his people. (As time passed, it got harder and harder to claim such results, even for an inveterate liar like Gaddafi.) This leader’s greatness was built on the idea that he, in his person, was greatness incarnate. That’s why that person had to be destroyed, smashed, made worthless and ugly, and then recorded in that state.
 
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