Tipping Point - Sexual Harassment In America

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anitram said:
I understand what you mean and I think you come from a good place, here and generally with your views, but I can't help but notice that the concern here is 100% with men, socially awkward or otherwise. It is just kind of...tiresome from the other side to see this. Kind of how when racism gets discussed and instead of going in depth on the implications for people of colour we concentrate on how it affects white people when they are accused of racism even though they may not be true "n-word racists" but something a bit less.

I hope that makes sense.
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Hey, thanks for the kind intro!

A forum like this is difficult because context can be hard to obtain. Unless posters have been here, posting their opinions, for years, how do the others know the context behind your posts? As a lurker for most of my time here, I know you and others here don't know me, what I stand for, etc etc.
Truth is, if you knew me you'd know what I'm doing with comments like the one you responded to, and some I've made in the politics thread.
I'm outspoken and active in the fight for equality, acceptance and human rights. I'm very socially liberal, and that's in a country much more socially liberal than the US (and possibly Canada too - as a whole).
I'm also a long-time journalist and have learned that the best way to change hearts and minds is to understand opponents' points of view and address them, as well as explaining your own. Maybe I'm wrong, but that's my take on my experiences.
Therefore, I tend to play devil's advocate a bit. Not because I enjoy being a contrarian, but because A/ I think it's counterproductive to just talk 'at' people and B/ I think it's helpful to not exaggerate your position.

Re my comment, no I didn't mention the victims. My comment was about a possible extrapolation of what's happening becoming something other.
I think all posters in this part of the forum are clever enough to hold multiple parts of an issue in their head at once. I don't think every post needs to be prefaced by an acknowledgement of the obvious - that sexual harassment and assault is horrendous for the victims, who are overwhelmingly women, needs to be stamped out, and victims need to be nurtured, empowered and heard.
Going back to context - if you knew me you'd know those points are implied already.

What I was saying was something beyond that. I don't believe anyone here is truly naive of what can happen in the US especially re false accusations/lime-lighting/etc. There is a precedent that if you throw mud at people who trade on their reputation, not much of that mud needs to stick for the person to be affected.
There's a precedent of people throwing mud falsely.
And there's a precedent of people having to/choosing to pay-off the false accusers.

As you know far better than me Anitram, the law is full of tests, checks, balances. You can't just accuse someone and the next day they lose their head. We tried that, as a civilisation, and decided it wasn't good. Yet that's what's happening here.

Like I said, I'm not defending anyone currently named. I don't know half the people and from what I'm reading they're admitting to it on the whole. What I am saying is we need to be careful of lynch mobs, of trial by media, of hype, as in the wrong hands these things can have nasty consequences. And you're seriously fucking clever and I know you know all this - apologies if I'm coming off as condescending/patronising/mansplaining. I'm just trying to re-convey the point I was making, as I think it is a valid point.

Of course the flipside is those like Trump, Cosby, Weinstein etc who have significant allegations laid against them but seem to be able to ignore/slow/limit the effects of those allegations because of their power. That's horrible and if being discussed. I'm aware of that, part of that, but like I said, we can discuss multiple parts of an issue without having to reference every other part.

I can see people misusing this current fervour for their own dishonest gains, and then see the Trumps and Cosbys of this world using those examples to further THEIR own gains.

Hence my point, that lynch mobs are bad. We should embrace what's happening but council proper process, soberness and caution. Or not. It's just an opinion after all.

Oh, and to whoever was knocking my 'sex is icky comment' - I forget who that was - come on, are you serious? Sex taints a reputation like nothing else. Someone being found out for having consensual sex in a manner that people dislike can be destroyed - despite no law breaking.
There was a NZ politician who was, it was discovered, engaging in consensual sex where he dressed up in nappies. Weird. But no laws broken, no-one hurt. And that was effectively the end of his career.
According to our laws, he had done nothing wrong.
Conversely, a politician was found to be trying to get off speeding tickets/drink driving charges by intimidating police officers using his position. Seriously illegal. He suffered a little, but nowhere near as badly as the sex guy. Why? Sex is icky to many people. It is attached to shame, and morals, etc. I can't believe folk here would genuinely deny this.
Although I am completely aware I may have not explained myself properly the other day.
 
MrsSpringsteen said:
He says "I always felt I was persuing shared feelings". Did he ask them first? That's a suggestion. He thought that about at least eight women? And he says he didn't realize that wasn't the case until now. Dude you're 75.

I don't want to read the details. Ick.
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Like, yeah, really!!
And, eeewww! Clueless! (at least consciously) Can you spell
i-n-a-p-p-r-o-p-r-a-t-e-!-!-! in 150 pt type size. :| :| :|

deep said:
Senator Franken seems to have a problem
Woman says Al Franken inappropriately touched her in 2010 - CNNPolitics
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2010! What the hell is wrong w you, Senator. :| :sigh:
 
anitram said:
I understand what you mean and I think you come from a good place, here and generally with your views, but I can't help but notice that the concern here is 100% with men, socially awkward or otherwise. It is just kind of...tiresome from the other side to see this. Kind of how when racism gets discussed and instead of going in depth on the implications for people of colour we concentrate on how it affects white people when they are accused of racism even though they may not be true "n-word racists" but something a bit less.

I hope that makes sense.
Click to expand...
I agree w you, anitram. And Irving I understand you saying "give men something to do" if I remember correctly.

It's somewhat similar (if someone pointed this out already, I missed it) that it took one man to accuse Spacey and everyone got (rightly) upset. While dozens, hundreds, thousands plus women who have been brave enough to say something have usually over and over again been dismissed.

PhilsFan said:
I have seen men use their inherent awkwardness to excuse bad behavior, as well. And it makes it harder for others to call them out on it because they're unsure of what they're seeing at any given moment.

It all comes back to the fact that you need to understand the world outside your own head.
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PF thanks for your honesty.

And not only the world outside your own head, but your own group. And of course, we all each belong to more than one group.
 
Last edited:
“Here’s a good rule of thumb,” Meyers said Tuesday on “Late Night.” “If your face isn’t pulling in the babes, your penis isn’t going to make the difference.”
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Ha. Sooooooooooo true. The "Bachelor" comment was a good one as well.

I also greatly loved his response to the craziness around Moore, especially the joke ad supporting him: "Paid for by a group of chickenshit assholes." is right. Trump supporting Moore isn't surprising, unfortunately (it's incredibly infuriating, though), but good lord, all the other bullshit arguments in favor of voting for him are just flat out insane. How much more stupid and desperate can some people get?

I have no idea how likely this will be, but I hope like mad that Jones wins that Alabama race, and that it's not a close win, either.

Anywho, back to Seth Meyers-thanks for the link, MrsS. I need to remember to check out his "Closer Look" segments more often, I like the few I've seen thus far.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
I do have a fear that, in this era of misinformation, that this moment will be used for political gain before anyone can realize what's happening.
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A woman who falsely claimed to The Washington Post that Roy Moore, the Republican U.S. Senate candidate in Alabama, impregnated her as a teenager appears to work with an organization that uses deceptive tactics to secretly record conversations in an effort to embarrass its targets.

...

On Monday morning, Post reporters saw her walking into the New York offices of Project Veritas, an organization that targets the mainstream news media and left-leaning groups. The organization sets up undercover“stings” that involve using false cover stories and covert video recordings meant to expose what the group says is media bias.
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These people are scum.
 
What were they thinking? That no one would check her story? And it sounds like she did the whole thing in such a hamfisted, obvious way that it would raise red flags with anyone, to say nothing of a seasoned reporter.

Idiots.
 
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