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Old 08-20-2018, 12:51 PM   #761
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tribalism.

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tribalism.


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tribalism.


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tribalism.


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tribalism.


Lol
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Old 08-20-2018, 01:27 PM   #762
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edit: never mind, it's just going to get ignored by our resident hypocrite anyways.
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Old 08-20-2018, 01:51 PM   #763
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Asia Argento

ewwww
Yeah, that is really disappointing if true.

Even though it pretty much discredits her, it does not discredit the whole #MeToo movement at all. And by that, I mean, even though she has a right to call out Weinstein, it doesn't mean she's excused or exempt from any horrible behavior.
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Old 08-20-2018, 02:59 PM   #764
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Someone has to counteract your snarkiness and tribalism masked as moral outrage. Sorry I don't spend my entire life tied to this forum. One of my goals in life is not 50000 posts, but it would be nice to see the handful of you that keep FYM going actually be bipartisan in your "moral outrage".

It speaks volumes as well that you rarely address the issues I bring up, but just either toss a personal insult or try to get a laugh by being a smart ass.
Lolz this guy, amirite?

Which post that isn't a link to a Facebook post would you like me to comment on? I'll do my best to answer it in a "bipartisan" way, but it'll be hard to control my moral outage considering I'm all tribal and all.

And apologies for being a member of this forum for 18 years. Next time I get a time machine I'll head back to 2000 and tell my younger self to lay easy on the posts so as not to upset you.

I'll tell myself to not register as a republican, either - knowing what the party will end up as and all. It'll hurt my liberal tribal cred.
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Old 08-20-2018, 03:05 PM   #765
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Yeah, that is really disappointing if true.

Even though it pretty much discredits her, it does not discredit the whole #MeToo movement at all. And by that, I mean, even though she has a right to call out Weinstein, it doesn't mean she's excused or exempt from any horrible behavior.
It doesn't necessarily discredit her.

There's a thing called bully-victims; people who are victims themselves who then go out and do the same to others. It's a psychological defense mechanism.

It doesn't excuse her behavior by any stretch - but it is a real thing and is more common than you think. It's another reason why victims of any sort of harassment need to get the help they need and get it very early on.
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Old 08-20-2018, 04:18 PM   #766
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It doesn't necessarily discredit her.

There's a thing called bully-victims; people who are victims themselves who then go out and do the same to others. It's a psychological defense mechanism.

It doesn't excuse her behavior by any stretch - but it is a real thing and is more common than you think. It's another reason why victims of any sort of harassment need to get the help they need and get it very early on.


I see the relationship but I don’t think that rapey Weinstein and her actions are the same thing.

First of all, statutory rape and age of consent laws are dumb laws. They make sense in that they protect minors, but it’s difficult to define where the boundaries lay. There are efforts to bandaid their shortcomings (so called “Romeo and Juliet” laws) that protect people of close age. I’d argue that 20 years isn’t very close in age... so her actions are super weird and creepy, but not child rapey creepy. Anyways, there are mental aspects of it that are why the line gets drawn, but I suppose my point is that I never want to step on toes over two consenting adults - but a 17 year old is truly a case by case basis if they qualify as an “adult.” So from that angle, I have no desire to criticize her behavior, even if it’s a strange age difference.

And I do intend to separate her as not being a victim who has become a perp in the sense that Harvey, the original perp, raped her and others. What she’s done, in my eyes, is more off the scummy note of a Louis C K. And for the record, it took open air discussion on here for me to really be harsher on him. But what she’s done is what he did - abusing power as a senior member of their field, effectively, to get what she wants.

Harvey forcefully raped people and abused his power to cover up immoral acts. She abused her power not likely understanding that she’d done so, but more out of pure lust and desire.

It’s not forgivable, but it is different. We should treat it differently, and before ousting someone like this, offer them a path to repair. She’s done awful things, but she is not an awful person.
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Old 08-20-2018, 04:22 PM   #767
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I see the relationship but I don’t think that rapey Weinstein and her actions are the same thing.

First of all, statutory rape and age of consent laws are dumb laws. They make sense in that they protect minors, but it’s difficult to define where the boundaries lay. There are efforts to bandaid their shortcomings (so called “Romeo and Juliet” laws) that protect people of close age. I’d argue that 20 years isn’t very close in age... so her actions are super weird and creepy, but not child rapey creepy. Anyways, there are mental aspects of it that are why the line gets drawn, but I suppose my point is that I never want to step on toes over two consenting adults - but a 17 year old is truly a case by case basis if they qualify as an “adult.” So from that angle, I have no desire to criticize her behavior, even if it’s a strange age difference.

And I do intend to separate her as not being a victim who has become a perp in the sense that Harvey, the original perp, raped her and others. What she’s done, in my eyes, is more off the scummy note of a Louis C K. And for the record, it took open air discussion on here for me to really be harsher on him. But what she’s done is what he did - abusing power as a senior member of their field, effectively, to get what she wants.

Harvey forcefully raped people and abused his power to cover up immoral acts. She abused her power not likely understanding that she’d done so, but more out of pure lust and desire.

It’s not forgivable, but it is different. We should treat it differently, and before ousting someone like this, offer them a path to repair. She’s done awful things, but she is not an awful person.
Not at all saying what she did is on the same line as Weinstein... only that it's not uncommon for victims of abuse to end up abusing themselves. It's definitely more common in males who have been abused than in females... alas.

There's also a bit more than just an age of consent thing going on here.
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Old 08-20-2018, 05:23 PM   #768
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I see the relationship but I don’t think that rapey Weinstein and her actions are the same thing.

First of all, statutory rape and age of consent laws are dumb laws. They make sense in that they protect minors, but it’s difficult to define where the boundaries lay. There are efforts to bandaid their shortcomings (so called “Romeo and Juliet” laws) that protect people of close age. I’d argue that 20 years isn’t very close in age... so her actions are super weird and creepy, but not child rapey creepy. Anyways, there are mental aspects of it that are why the line gets drawn, but I suppose my point is that I never want to step on toes over two consenting adults - but a 17 year old is truly a case by case basis if they qualify as an “adult.” So from that angle, I have no desire to criticize her behavior, even if it’s a strange age difference.

And I do intend to separate her as not being a victim who has become a perp in the sense that Harvey, the original perp, raped her and others. What she’s done, in my eyes, is more off the scummy note of a Louis C K. And for the record, it took open air discussion on here for me to really be harsher on him. But what she’s done is what he did - abusing power as a senior member of their field, effectively, to get what she wants.

Harvey forcefully raped people and abused his power to cover up immoral acts. She abused her power not likely understanding that she’d done so, but more out of pure lust and desire.

It’s not forgivable, but it is different. We should treat it differently, and before ousting someone like this, offer them a path to repair. She’s done awful things, but she is not an awful person.
wow, this is the most ridiculous excuse for a defense I have read on this subject.

oh sorry, correction: it's the only defense I have read on this subject (Asia specifically).

just can't make this stuff up. amazing the double standards at play here. Good job Lucky #7, good job.

and a shout out to Headache for stepping in and reaffirming this hypocritcal bullshit. you guys rock.
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Old 08-20-2018, 05:49 PM   #769
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wow, this is the most ridiculous excuse for a defense I have read on this subject.

oh sorry, correction: it's the only defense I have read on this subject (Asia specifically).

just can't make this stuff up. amazing the double standards at play here. Good job Lucky #7, good job.

and a shout out to Headache for stepping in and reaffirming this hypocritcal bullshit. you guys rock.
I'm sorry, what exactly did I do to defend or excuse anyone?

By saying that people who are abused can sometimes end up abusing themselves down the road? That's not an excuse for behavior. It's merely another reason why the cycle of abuse must end, why we need to get people who are abused the help they need, and why the shame associated with being abused needs to end at that people CAN get the help they need.

That she became an abuser herself doesn't change what Weinstein did to her. It also doesn't excuse her actions in any way.
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Old 08-20-2018, 05:58 PM   #770
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wow, this is the most ridiculous excuse for a defense I have read on this subject.

oh sorry, correction: it's the only defense I have read on this subject (Asia specifically).

just can't make this stuff up. amazing the double standards at play here. Good job Lucky #7, good job.

and a shout out to Headache for stepping in and reaffirming this hypocritcal bullshit. you guys rock.


Dude (or dudette), I have literally no opinion of you and if I’ve ever interacted with you negatively, I certainly didn’t keep a tab. But, you know, read the way you unnecessarily just responded to me like a dick. You deserve people keeping tabs on you when you respond so pompously. Just can’t make this stuff up!

It wasn’t a defense. I’d explain why it wasn’t a defense, but most of that would just be copying and pasting the post you quoted. So, that’s not helping anyone.

As for “double standards,” fuck off. By all means, go several pages back. I referenced it in the post you quoted. I made this same argument for Louis C K where I did not believe it was fair to lump him into Weinstein territory. Those are MY views, asshole. So think twice before going and collecting someone else’s views and pasting them on to me.
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Old 08-20-2018, 06:01 PM   #771
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Not at all saying what she did is on the same line as Weinstein... only that it's not uncommon for victims of abuse to end up abusing themselves. It's definitely more common in males who have been abused than in females... alas.

There's also a bit more than just an age of consent thing going on here.


To your last point, it is more of an age of consent thing going on here. I agree. Thats why I related it back to Louis C K. I was attempting to refine exactly what she’s done wrong here - she isn’t a rapist, but she grossly abused her position of power.
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Old 08-20-2018, 07:16 PM   #772
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To your last point, it is more of an age of consent thing going on here. I agree. Thats why I related it back to Louis C K. I was attempting to refine exactly what she’s done wrong here - she isn’t a rapist, but she grossly abused her position of power.
Meh, while it's certainly not to the level of a serial abuser like Weinstein, I'd put it above that of Louis C.K.
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Old 08-20-2018, 07:58 PM   #773
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Dude (or dudette), I have literally no opinion of you and if I’ve ever interacted with you negatively, I certainly didn’t keep a tab. But, you know, read the way you unnecessarily just responded to me like a dick. You deserve people keeping tabs on you when you respond so pompously. Just can’t make this stuff up!

It wasn’t a defense. I’d explain why it wasn’t a defense, but most of that would just be copying and pasting the post you quoted. So, that’s not helping anyone.

As for “double standards,” fuck off. By all means, go several pages back. I referenced it in the post you quoted. I made this same argument for Louis C K where I did not believe it was fair to lump him into Weinstein territory. Those are MY views, asshole. So think twice before going and collecting someone else’s views and pasting them on to me.
you have, but that's ok, you're not alone.

your post read like a defense.

looking back on my own post, I admit that could have been less in your face about it.
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Old 08-20-2018, 08:01 PM   #774
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Well, my bottom line was just that people like her have committed acts that we need to learn how to properly approach, punish, and rehabilitate. And I do not buy the “abused became the abuser” in this case. The reason why I distinguish a Harvey Weinstein (or a Mario Batali or whoever) is because they’ve committed acts where they sexually assaulted people with their powers. Anyone could figure that’s morally reprehensible.

I equate these pettier but still reprehensible actions to otherwise good people akin to falling into addiction of their own sexual ego. It’s entirely possible that during the time they never questioned their behavior. It’s the kind of stuff that should invalidate you from ever running for office, you know, and perhaps it should end your time in fame, but it shouldn’t force society to reject you.

People make mistakes. Yes, these people don’t deserve their fame and should have it stripped away. Or perhaps they should be forced into a life of labor for the cause. Think, for example, Tim Hardaway. Fringe HOF candidate owes the rest of his life in repentance for who he was. He’s nobody now. But who he’s chosen to become since then has made his life worthwhile.

I’m one for never forgetting. The bad and the good.
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Old 08-20-2018, 08:50 PM   #775
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Well, my bottom line was just that people like her have committed acts that we need to learn how to properly approach, punish, and rehabilitate. And I do not buy the “abused became the abuser” in this case. The reason why I distinguish a Harvey Weinstein (or a Mario Batali or whoever) is because they’ve committed acts where they sexually assaulted people with their powers. Anyone could figure that’s morally reprehensible.

I equate these pettier but still reprehensible actions to otherwise good people akin to falling into addiction of their own sexual ego. It’s entirely possible that during the time they never questioned their behavior. It’s the kind of stuff that should invalidate you from ever running for office, you know, and perhaps it should end your time in fame, but it shouldn’t force society to reject you.

People make mistakes. Yes, these people don’t deserve their fame and should have it stripped away. Or perhaps they should be forced into a life of labor for the cause. Think, for example, Tim Hardaway. Fringe HOF candidate owes the rest of his life in repentance for who he was. He’s nobody now. But who he’s chosen to become since then has made his life worthwhile.

I’m one for never forgetting. The bad and the good.
I think you're seriously playing down what is alleged to have occurred.

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In the documents, Bennett sought to sue Argento for an alleged May 9, 2013 encounter at the Ritz-Carlton hotel in Marina del Rey, Calif. Bennett arrived with a family member but Argento reportedly sent them away so she could be alone with him. At that time, Bennett alleges that she showed him notes she had previously written to him and gave him alcohol. She then reportedly kissed him, pushed him back on the bed, performed oral sex on him and then the two had intercourse.
This is more than an abuse of a power. She plied him with alcohol before having sex with him.
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Old 08-20-2018, 09:02 PM   #776
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exactly, she is no better than any other person who has committed a similar act. it's unclear if this is a serial thing with her or a one off, but we can't let her off the hook any more than anyone else. and the fact that she is apparently ignoring/denying repeated requests for comment, says a lot.
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Old 08-20-2018, 09:16 PM   #777
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I think you're seriously playing down what is alleged to have occurred.

This is more than an abuse of a power. She plied him with alcohol before having sex with him.

Fair enough. But still, it’s hard to genuinely understand what happened. I don’t doubt the claimant’s emotional trauma following the event. But, the impression I get was that they were already friends and the alcohol thing wasn’t something new.

But maybe you’re right, maybe I’m downplaying it.
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Old 08-21-2018, 01:35 PM   #778
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Oh wow, seriously? She's now blaming her deceased boyfriend like this? I don't know what to think...I mean, I can't see Bourdain doing this. But I didn't know the guy.

Asia Argento Denies Alleged Sexual Assault, Says Anthony Bourdain Paid Off Accusser
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Old 08-21-2018, 03:51 PM   #779
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He was 17 and she played his mother in a movie when he was 14 I believe. They referred to each other as mother and son. Yes indeed she abused her position of power, and it is complete hypocrisy. This topic has come up in the past here, and in the past it was a few males who dismissed it as some rite of passage/teenage boy fantasy-when it is nothing but sexual abuse. I have zero double standard about that.

This will have a negative impact on the Weinstein case. His lawyer was already on tv this morning saying he told Weinstein about Asia Argento. And acting as if that somehow vindicated Weinstein, already trying to imply that other accusers were lying hypocrites too. It affects the Me Too movement. If they don't speak out about this and call it sexual abuse, they're hypocrites. In the court of public opinion, they're going to lose. There are plenty of people looking for ammunition against MeToo, you can't hand it to them on a silver platter by staying silent about hypocrisy and sexual abuse of boys by women.
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Old 08-21-2018, 04:24 PM   #780
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Well said, MrsSpringsteen. Rose McGowan has actually been asking people to be "gentle" toward Asia. That's really going to hurt #MeToo and all future attempts to do something about male-on-female sexual abuse.
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