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Old 12-07-2017, 09:11 AM   #241
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Old 12-07-2017, 09:17 AM   #242
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It would be a great opportunity to finally say that we believe Anita Hill after all these years.

It was rhetorical, of course, and not a terribly smart political move with Trump as president, and his replacement would almost certainly be a white male.

I’m not so frustrated about Frankin anymore. I was, initially, as his behavior is world’s away from Moore and Trump. But as more accusers come forward, this does give the Democrats the opportunity to seize the moral high ground, and better use Moore as the Todd “shut it down” Aikin in 2018.

But I also come back to CT because this was the beginning of it all. I was barely in middle school at the time, but I would read aboutnin in Newsweek and be startled by the lurid revelations. In hindsight, it’s clear that Anita Hill was destroyed by powerful men, and Clarence Thomas, for so many other reasons as well, was never fit to serve.

If this is a cultural watershed, let’s go back to where it all started.
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Old 12-07-2017, 09:23 AM   #243
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Thanks.
What's so jarring is it feels like only yesterday that even the sniff of something like this would derail a political career.
Although as I type that I think 'Bill Clinton'. But then he's never run for office since his scandal...

.
I assume you are referring to using Monica Lewinsky as his personal humidor.
But Bill had plenty of scandal prior to that, none of which prevented him from being elected in 1992 and re-elected in 1996.
Start with googling Paula Jones, Kathleen Wiley and Gennifer Flowers, that's just the tip of the iceberg.
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Old 12-07-2017, 09:53 AM   #244
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I wonder...Bill Clinton has been a featured speaker at every Democratic National Convention since 1988.

Anyone think he'll be invited in 2020?
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Old 12-07-2017, 09:56 AM   #245
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If this is a cultural watershed, let’s go back to where it all started.
Adam and Eve ?
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Old 12-07-2017, 09:58 AM   #246
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Adam and Eve ?


So sexual harassment is a good and natural expression of heterosexuality?
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:02 AM   #247
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This watershed "moment" is a little deja vu'...

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Old 12-07-2017, 10:34 AM   #248
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Adam and Eve ?
The adult "toy" and "movie"store?
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:45 AM   #249
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The adult "toy" and "movie"store?
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Old 12-07-2017, 10:55 AM   #250
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Adam and Eve ?
What do fairly tales have to do with anything?
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Old 12-07-2017, 12:40 PM   #251
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So sexual harassment is a good and natural expression of heterosexuality?
Yeah, the woman component of heterosexuality doesn't agree....

The Republicans should be rebranded The Party of Roy Moore. In every ad in 2018.
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Old 12-07-2017, 01:03 PM   #252
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Yeah, the woman component of heterosexuality doesn't agree....

The Republicans should be rebranded The Party of Roy Moore. In every ad in 2018.
That will certainly be the plan and I can see why politically it seems smart for them to push Franken out (even if I think it's sort of bullshit that he was thrown under the bust this way). And that's part of the strategy that involves getting rid of people like Franken & Conyers (though I hate to put them in the same sentence).

But those guys were essentially freebies. The 2018 elections are a year off, and they better hope that there aren't more accusations of Dem pols coming. Because they've set this standard now, and what if next time it's a Senator from a state with a GOP Governor? If you spend six months drawing a bright line and going against the GOP on this issue, and then more Dems end up implicated? That's a dangerous strategy given how bad behaviour by men knows no ideology.
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Old 12-07-2017, 01:18 PM   #253
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I think context is needed on individual cases. I don't think that if Franken's only accusation was that photo by the one journalist we'd be here today. But they added up and added up, suggesting a history of inappropriate behaviour.

Roy Moore is an obvious liar based on his own words, has a very questionable ethical record, is unfit to serve even without the accusations and there are multiple women with similar stories and no incentive to lie. He has no business sniffing near the Senate either.

If you look at the polling in Alabama, which admittedly is questionable as it is done by external outfits mostly in an off year, but the % of college educated WHITE women supporting Doug Jones is the exact same % as the women who voted D in Virginia a few weeks back. That is devastating to Republicans if it plays out to be true - not so much in Alabama because they can survive the number in that state. But they absolutely cannot survive it in basically every other state where Trump surprisingly overperformed.
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Old 12-07-2017, 01:47 PM   #254
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I really hope Roy Moore loses that race. The guy is just loathsome in so many ways.
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Old 12-07-2017, 08:33 PM   #255
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Another creepazoid gone from Congress. Trent Franks, smell you later. Resigned because a "discussion of surrogacy" with two former female staffers "left them uncomfortable."

I'm sure it was a "discussion."
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Old 12-08-2017, 02:56 PM   #256
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time to press pause? food for thought.

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There was one notable absence in his speech: Franken did not apologize. In fact, he made it clear that he disagreed with his accusers. “Some of the allegations against me are simply not true,” he said. “Others I remember very differently.” Earlier, Franken had in fact apologized to his accusers, and he didn’t take his apologies back now, but he made it plain that they had been issued in the hopes of facilitating a conversation and an investigation that would clear him. He had, it seems, been attempting to buy calm time to work while a Senate ethics committee looked into the accusations. But, by Thursday morning, thirty-two Democratic senators had called on Franken to resign. The force of the #MeToo moment leaves no room for due process, or, indeed, for Franken’s own constituents to consider their choice.

Still, the force works selectively. “I, of all people, am aware that there is some irony in the fact that I am leaving while a man who has bragged on tape about his history of sexual assault sits in the Oval Office and a man who has repeatedly preyed on young girls campaigns for the Senate with the full support of his party,” said Franken, referring to Donald Trump and the Alabama Senate candidate Roy Moore. Trump and Moore are immune because the blunt irresistible force works only on the other half of the country.

That half is cleaning its ranks in the face of—and in clear reaction to—genuine moral depravity on the other side.
The Trump era is one of deep and open immorality in politics. Moore is merely one example. Consider Greg Gianforte, the Montana Republican who won his congressional race earlier this year after not only being captured on tape shoving a newspaper reporter but then also lying to police about it. Consider the tax bill, which is stitched together from shameless greed and boldface lies. Consider the series of racist travel bans. Consider the withdrawal from a series of international agreements aimed at bettering the future of humanity, from migration to climate change to cultural preservation. These are men who proclaim their allegiance to the Christian faith while acting in openly hateful, duplicitous, and plainly murderous ways. In response to this unbearable spectacle, the roughly half of Americans who are actually deeply invested in thinking of themselves as good people are trying to claim a moral high ground. The urge to do so by policing sex is not surprising. As Susan Sontag pointed out more than half a century ago, Christianity has “concentrated on sexual behavior as the root of virtue” and, consequently, “everything pertaining to sex has been a ‘special case’ in our culture.”

The case of Franken makes it all that much more clear that this conversation is, in fact, about sex, not about power, violence, or illegal acts. The accusations against him, which involve groping and forcible kissing, arguably fall into the emergent, undefined, and most likely undefinable category of “sexual misconduct.” Put more simply, Franken stands accused of acting repeatedly like a jerk, and he denies that he acted this way. The entire sequence of events, from the initial accusations to Franken’s resignation, is based on the premise that Americans, as a society, or at least half of a society, should be policing non-criminal behavior related to sex.

While this half (roughly) of American society is morally superior and also just bigger than the other half (roughly), it is not the half that holds power in either of the houses of Congress or in the majority of the state houses, and not the half that is handing out lifetime appointments to federal courts at record-setting speed. And while the two halves of this divided country may disagree on the limits of acceptable sexual behavior, they increasingly agree on the underlying premise that sexual behavior must be policed. As I wrote in an earlier column, drawing on the work of the pioneering feminist scholar Gayle Rubin, we seem to be in a period of renegotiating sexual norms. Rubin has warned that such renegotiations tend to produce ever more restrictive regimes of closely regulating sexuality. While policing such unpleasant behavior as groping or wet kisses landed on an unwilling recipient may seem to fall outside the realm of sexuality, it is precisely this behavior’s relationship to sex that makes it a “special case”—and lands us in the trap of policing sexuality.

https://www.newyorker.com/news/our-c...force-of-metoo
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Old 12-08-2017, 03:48 PM   #257
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I think we have enough "due process" in Franken's case

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Old 12-08-2017, 04:29 PM   #258
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Guess i don’t quite feel the rage from that photo.

Wasn’t a smart move on his part but unless i missed it he didn’t touch her right ? Or take any other measures while she was asleep?

I just can’t lump this photo in with sexual assault
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Old 12-08-2017, 04:36 PM   #259
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I think we have enough "due process" in Franken's case



Without that photo, Franken would still have a job. It’s deadly. And it’s rightly upsetting to anyone.

The point of the article is that half the country doesn’t care about this stuff if it involves someone from their tribe.
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Old 12-08-2017, 04:55 PM   #260
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The case of Franken makes it all that much more clear that this conversation is, in fact, about sex, not about power, violence, or illegal acts. The accusations against him, which involve groping and forcible kissing, arguably fall into the emergent, undefined, and most likely undefinable category of “sexual misconduct.” Put more simply, Franken stands accused of acting repeatedly like a jerk, and he denies that he acted this way. The entire sequence of events, from the initial accusations to Franken’s resignation, is based on the premise that Americans, as a society, or at least half of a society, should be policing non-criminal behavior related to sex.
Yeah. Part of what's causing all these cases to be lumped together is that the lay definitions for what's occurring are so vague ..."sexual assault" is everything from pinching someone's ass to holding them down and penetrating them. "Unwanted sexual advance" ranges from leaning over to kiss someone on a first date who might not be interested yet to repeatedly trying to kiss or proposition a co-worker. It's absurd.

Whatever you think of what Franken did, it's not in the same league as what people like Moore, Conyers and Weinstein did (or are accused of doing). If the punishment for every case, however mild or serious, is going to be the death penalty (rhetorically speaking), the backlash is going to be swift, and that isn't going to do anyone any good.
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