The War Against Boys

[Pearl]

Bono Saint, I'm taking a class right now on 20th century American masculinity. It's fascinating, and hearing how the young men's speech reveals thoughts about essentialism and gender roles is most fascinating of all. It's a great subject but I don't think it could be done justice in a forum like this.

How could it not do justice here in FYM? I don't understand why you think like this.

I see nothing wrong with treating both boys and girls with respect. Turning the tables does not sound like a rational, wise way to solve problems. I think it is highly possible to teach boys that girls are equal to them while still allowing them to be boys - high energy and all.

 

[jeevey]

What I mean is that masculinity and femininity are complex constructs. Forum discussions tend to be fairly reductionist and settle into two parties who disagree but without covering the full spectrum of the issues at hand. It's just a format that lends itself to that sort of dialogue. Coming to a subject like gender construction without a shared background of theory would be tough. And as a complicated personal topic, it's really easy to be offensive and for people to get pissed and lose the train of what's important. It's easy to do that even sitting in a room with people you know and like, so I think it would be extra likely here. I'm not saying don't discuss it, I'm just saying a nuanced, informed discussion would be a trick to pull off.

 

[Pearl]

I see your point. Gender roles are difficult to discuss because most won't realize what is nurture or nature. Even more so, most won't see a problem with certain roles, such as men mowing the lawns or women doing the laundry. I have no problem with roles like that and don't see the point in having a brain hemorrhage over them. But if gender roles say men are to be the breadwinners and women stay at home and be submissive to their husbands, then I cry foul on that.

 

[Galeongirl]

From what I've heard, Europeans treat sexual harassment like it is no big deal. I had friends who studied abroad in Italy or France, and whenever a guy pinched their ass, they were mocked for complaining about it.

I think that you're overlooking a big culture gap here between Northern European countries and the Mediterranean. As sexual harassment is definitely a big deal here. Yet in Italy, Spain or France, men are generally more macho, flirty and have issues taking no for an answer. Something about bbeing doted on by their mothers or so. No but not to generalize too much here, but I do think that there's a difference per country.

 

[anitram]

^ Agreed.

I lived in Europe for about a decade and truth be told the only place I really experienced totally obnoxious catcalling, hooting, etc was Italy (and much moreso in Rome and south thereof than in the north). A bit of it in Spain as well, but frankly the rest of Europe I found to be quite similar to North America.

 

[Pearl]

Sorry about my post. I knew about the attitudes in France and Italy, but I wasn't so sure about the rest of Europe. Should've made that part clear.

 

[Irvine511]

Sorry about my post. I knew about the attitudes in France and Italy, but I wasn't so sure about the rest of Europe. Should've made that part clear.

Europe is definitely a big, complex place. Like the US. This underscores the difficulty if making direct comparisons between, say, Iceland and Italy, let alone Iceland and the US.

I looked briefly today, but couldn't find the articles I had read earlier about more entrenched notions of gender essentialism in many European counties (France in particular). I actually may have posted them in the SSM thread, and I think some of the old threads on monogamy had some interesting discussion on the topic.

 

[Galeongirl]

For the record, if any guy tried to grab my ass I'd punch them in the face. And most of my female friends would probably too. So we're not quite all accepting, haha.

 

[deep]

I did not want to start a new thread so I thought I will drop this in here:

First picks in the NFL draft get millions of dollars to play football. But at one high school, that “number one draft” formula has been applied controversially to something else: Finding a date for prom. And not everyone is happy about it.

Corona del Mar High School in Newport Beach, Calif., lets male students select their prom date through a slotted system, much like a professional sport draft. The rules and results get posted on Twitter.

Some parents and school officials, however, do not want the female students to feel as if they are being judged or ranked.

Outrage as teens hold prom draft. Yep, like the NFL | HLNtv.com


One could just say they are getting prepared for the real world.

 

[corianderstem]

This is why we can't have nice things! need feminism.

 

[Vlad n U 2]

It's disgusting but I'm not surprised.

 

[Dfit00]

^ Agreed.

I lived in Europe for about a decade and truth be told the only place I really experienced totally obnoxious catcalling, hooting, etc was Italy (and much moreso in Rome and south thereof than in the north). A bit of it in Spain as well, but frankly the rest of Europe I found to be quite similar to North America.

I actually noticed the typical Italian guy screaming and insulting from the car the very first day that I arrived to Rome.

Thankfully, I had been in Hamburg before and everything in Northern Europe in general is much more organized, even crime itself is better organized.