The Truth, Still Inconvenient

[kramwest1]

Originally Posted by INDY500

The science is settled. The evidence that carbon-dioxide emissions from cars, power plants, buildings and other sources is heating the Earth's atmosphere is as rock solid as Einstein's E=mc2.

I don't know why there was so much coverage of that this week. I thought some x-rays could escape black holes--hence they travel faster than light.

And then there is the thought of slingshoting a black hole with a spacecraft--the result could be travel faster than the speed of light.


FWIW

[Canadiens1131]

Originally Posted by INDY500

There are two global ideologies at present that publicly declare themselves sacrosanct and beyond criticism from apostates.

One is climate change.

One is agreed upon by the majority of the scientific community doing climate research.

The other is supported by a minority of the scientific community and propped up by lobbying money from high-carbon producers and a right-wing who is heavily invested in seeing those companies continue to do business as usual.

You are making this way too easy.

[kramwest1]

Science Friday Newsbriefs: Lake Tanganyika Heating Up, Warmest In 1,500 Years

Jessica Tierney, lead scientist on the project and currently a post-doctoral researcher with National Oceanographic and Atmospheric Administration’s Climate and Global Change program, analyzed core samples from the lake floor to deduce lake surface temperatures over the past 1,500 years.

Lake temperatures have fluctuated in the past but this warming is unprecedented. “The warmest it’s ever gotten was 24.3 degrees Celsius. It’s never happened to the degree it is happening now,” says Tierney. Lake Tanganyika last reached 24.3 degrees Celsius during a warm period between 600 and 900 years ago. It is currently 26 degrees Celsius, or 78.8 degrees Fahrenheit.

[the iron horse]

Originally Posted by purpleoscar

I did. The jury is still out on CO2. I actually hope for warming because I live on the frontlines where more cold is too much. 10 times the CO2 couldn't stop ice ages let alone a mini ice age.

I think the jury is still out and on a picnic with Al Go$e.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by the iron horse

I think the jury is still out and on a picnic with Al Go$e.

Al did not invent, nor did he even shine the brightest light on climate change.

[PhilsFan]

How do you use a dollar sign to replace the R in a name? How did that ever make sense when you were typing that post? I have honestly no idea what to think about that.

[purpleoscar]

Originally Posted by BVS

Al did not invent, nor did he even shine the brightest light on climate change.

You should say Anthropogenic Global Warming (AGW) otherwise you're sending propaganda. Climate change can be natural. "Climate change" sends the impression that ALL real climate change is man-made. It also sends the impression that the weather now is unprecidented and there was a golden age of climate that we ruined. Or is that what you want everyone to think?

[BVS]

Otherwise I'm sending propaganda?



Have you ever stopped to think maybe you're the only one that's that impressionable?

[Canadiens1131]

Who is Al Gose?

[purpleoscar]

Originally Posted by BVS

Otherwise I'm sending propaganda?



Have you ever stopped to think maybe you're the only one that's that impressionable?

LOL! Who are you fooling? Lots of people will be impressionable if there's a constant drumbeat (from authentic scientists, UN, politicians) that all storms and extreme weather are our fault. Where have you been since Kyoto? In Copenhagen politicians were actually acting like they could climate control the planet with carbon taxes. It's not just that, it's also any changes to flora and fauna on the planet. Guilt (especially misplaced guilt) over and over again is wearing out the public as we speak.

Didn't Kramwest just create a post that (AGAIN) says that we are warmer than anytime in the past 1,500 years (which includes Medieval warming period)? That was a historical period that allowed crops in higher latitudes than today. If you go back farther to the Holocene it was even warmer.

It's obvious that 6 degree increases in average temperature with a doubling of CO2 isn't going to happen. As Richard Lindzen pointed out:

http://curryja.files.wordpress.com/2...11-lindzen.pdf

Moreover, the high sensitivity of some current models would render the stability of the earth over 4.5 billion years dubious. Engineers have long recognized this and generally avoid feedback factors greater than about 0.1.

All you're left with is a small warming that won't matter much one way or another. The rest is just the U.N. acting like an aggressive panhandler looking for a slush fund for green cronies.

[BVS]

I made one of the most benign comments in this thread and you used it to accuse me of propaganda(eventhough you know the majority in here are intelligent enough to understand the damn phrase) and to jump into your UN-cronie-socialist right wing paranoia speech.

It's a tired sad broken record.

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by purpleoscar

Didn't Kramwest just create a post that (AGAIN) says that we are warmer than anytime in the past 1,500 years (which includes Medieval warming period)? That was a historical period that allowed crops in higher latitudes than today. If you go back farther to the Holocene it was even warmer.

Actually, no he didn't - you misread (or didn't bother reading the whole thing). His post refers to reports that one particular lake, Lake Tanganyika, is warmer than anytime in the past 1,500 years.

[kramwest1]

Originally Posted by Diemen

Actually, no he didn't - you misread (or didn't bother reading the whole thing). His post refers to reports that one particular lake, Lake Tanganyika, is warmer than anytime in the past 1,500 years.

Yeah, it's a fairly compartmentalized article and only just touches on the real human consequences of the lake's rising temp.

If warming waters worldwide is a natural cycle or human-caused, the effects are real and serious for all life including, and most alarmingly, human.

[purpleoscar]

Originally Posted by kramwest1

Yeah, it's a fairly compartmentalized article and only just touches on the real human consequences of the lake's rising temp.

If warming waters worldwide is a natural cycle or human-caused, the effects are real and serious for all life including, and most alarmingly, human.

This is an old story:

Brown Geologists Show Unprecedented Warming in Lake Tanganyika | Brown University News and Events

And of course the human fault is?????

Climate change models show a general warming in the region, which, if accurate, would cause even greater warming of the Lake Tanganyika’s surface waters and more stratification in the lake as a whole. “So, as you move forward, you can imagine that density gradient increasing,” said Russell, an author on the paper.

Twentieth-Century Warming in Lake Tanganyika is Unprecedented | UANews.org

The team attributes the lake's increased temperature and the decreased productivity during the 20th century to human-caused global warming.

Emphasis mine

Of course as you mention there could be more reasons:

JSTOR: An Error Occurred Setting Your User Cookie

Watershed deforestation, road building, and other anthropogenic activities result in sediment inundation of lacustrine habitats.

So is this going to be a general environmentalist thread that includes deforestations, etc or are we going to stick to CO2 being the main culprit?

[Badyouken]

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by purpleoscar

So is this going to be a general environmentalist thread that includes deforestations, etc or are we going to stick to CO2 being the main culprit?

Did you just mention deforestation and CO2 as if they weren't related?

[purpleoscar]

Originally Posted by Diemen

Did you just mention deforestation and CO2 as if they weren't related?

Deforestation is less of a problem in rich countries than poor ones. Improving with modern farming uses less land, feeds more people and requires less trees to be cut down. The solution for poor countries is to get rich which will involve fossil fuels. That's why people who think organic farming should be everywhere is just a bunch of crazy talk.

[kramwest1]

Originally Posted by purpleoscar

That's why people who think organic farming should be everywhere is just a bunch of crazy talk.

I think organic farming should be everywhere, but located in agri-towers (multistory buildings/skyscrapers that can be built anywhere).
There are companies out there with excellent models. Some Middle Eastern countries are very interested.

We romanticize farming too much in the U.S.

[Diemen]

Originally Posted by purpleoscar

The solution for poor countries is to get rich

Oh, well then. If they'd just thought of that earlier they wouldn't still be poor!

Do you realize how completely out of touch that sounds?

[BVS]

Originally Posted by purpleoscar

The solution for poor countries is to get rich which will involve fossil fuels. That's why people who think organic farming should be everywhere is just a bunch of crazy talk.

Are you for real? Is this what you consider an adult answer?