The Truth, Still Inconvenient

[purpleoscar]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

By the way, you're taking your information from a man that wrote this sentence

"a process called a 'chloroplast'"
What a fucking idiot

If you're going to ignore context and pick out little things like that then why don't you use that against people who eliminate the historical medieval warm period in their tree studies. Did people just pretend that it was warm back then? That was Michael Mann. How about people making predictions so wildly inaccurate as to assume New York would be underwater by the year 2000. That was James Hansen of NASA.

My point is that doubling of the CO2 can't be the end of the world since multiple times that in the past would have prevent animals from ever evolving to the level of humans now and have conversations like we are having now.

[purpleoscar]

Originally Posted by AEON

Even if your CO2 argument is correct (which I doubt) - would you agree that we should have some environmental controls? For instance, it is a fact that Lake Eerie was once dead due to pollution. It is a fact that certain pollutants are known to increase cancer rates. Should industry simply go on, completely unchecked?

I'm not against common sense environmental controls because we can afford some, but reducing CO2 without an alternative that can create as much energy is reckless. There are also good stories about the environment but like bad news selling it takes effort to get people to even notice. I would recommend reading The Skeptical Environmentalist by Bjorn Lomborg and the Rational Optimist by Matt Ridley for you to get where I'm coming from. None of these people want to let either extreme to takeover. The global warming movement to me is one of the most extreme environmentalist movements ever.

Originally Posted by AEON

Is it really - in the end - all about money? If so, what a sad, sad way to look at life...

The U.N. and governments that want carbon taxes aren't thinking about money? Money is simply a means of exchange for the work we do. The blood, sweat, and tears do matter. Do you go to work for free? Don't you like it when your pay-cheque is received and you can use it for your life plans? If the government controls more of your pay-cheque don't they also control more of your resources? When you get older and unless you have a government pension, how are you going to survive when you can't keep working? If you have a pension (lucky you) just pray it doesn't get watered down.

Poo-poohing money reeks of snobbishness and hypocrisy. It doesn't fool me for a second. If you're not trying to fool me then stop fooling yourself.

[purpleoscar]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

Stop talking about taxes.

I will if the U.N. does. The tax that Republicans helped stop in Congress would have been hundreds of millions.

Inhofe Takes on Global Warming Alarmist Attempted Ambush - YouTube

Hey! Some of us conservatives want you to not get ripped off.

I hope you don't want these brainwashed kids and socialist engineers taking your money to pretend to save the world.

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

Don't talk about our 'species' as if you have some concern about the ecosystem we exist in. You're concerned about money. You're concerned about your amygdala and your dopamine reuptake because god forbid should you have to alter your lifestyle and act responsibly. Fuck taxes, bro. They cramp my dopamine fix

We get Dopamine when we achieve goals, have sex, eat food, enjoy U2. In a dopamine starved environment it's like depression. If we yearn for those things that make us happy we release coritsol when it's not fullfilled. I agree that dopamine addiction is bad (we can be addicted to anything we like) but the other extreme is not healthy.

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

There will always be new jobs to replace the vestigial ones. Were you equally as teary eyed when the music industry changed models? Did you petition for all the record executives?

Not buying music that you like is bad but that's hardly on the scale of energy starvation. If green technologies are cheap enough then there's no economic problem.

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

I think you're spending too much time on that site. A different reference would be nice. You pick out the one in 20 that fits with your views and claim it as fact. Do you have any anti vaccine sites I should be looking at?

I like Climate Audit, wattsupwiththat, and Climate Depot for aggregating skeptical science because if you look elsewhere they try to prevent you from seeing it. I already know what the U.N. believes and watch plenty of debates (usually involving Gavin Schmidt). Anti-vaccine argument is just like the smoking one. It doesn't work.

[purpleoscar]

Govts tried to cover up data showing lack of global warming | The Daily Caller

“Germany called for the reference to the slowdown to be deleted, saying a time span of 10-15 years was misleading in the context of climate change, which is measured over decades and centuries.”

“The U.S. also urged the authors to include the ‘leading hypothesis’ that the reduction in warming is linked to more heat being transferred to the deep ocean,” the AP noted. “Belgium objected to using 1998 as a starting year for any statistics. …Using 1999 or 2000 as a starting year would yield a more upward-pointing curve. Hungary worried the report would provide ammunition for skeptics.”

What does this have to do with science?

[Jive Turkey]

Can't argue logic with a conspiracy theorist (or an Albertan (I assume?) who's arguing for the oil companies ). So I'm doing what I did with the gent on facebook that tried to argue lung cancer isn't caused by cigarettes, but is rather some sort of Big Pharma money making scheme (complete with links to websites, too).... I'm walking away

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

Can't argue logic with a conspiracy theorist (or an Albertan (I assume?) who's arguing for the oil companies ). So I'm doing what I did with the gent on facebook that tried to argue lung cancer isn't caused by cigarettes, but is rather some sort of Big Pharma money making scheme (complete with links to websites, too).... I'm walking away

This is just your appeal to authority you eugenicistic leftist

[purpleoscar]

Classic.

[the iron horse]

Here's one way to shutdown discussion:

LA Times bans letters from climate skeptics | Fox News

I'm glad that I am still allowed to express myself
as a skeptic here.

[anitram]

Talk about an inaccurate article title. But it's Fox "News" so that's about par for the course.

[AEON]

Still doubting?

Solar Energy Has Blown Past Grid Parity

The cost of solar power is moving lower, while the cost of generating electricity from traditional sources typically rises 1%-3% each year. With solar already past grid parity in Chile, on California roofs, and on most utility scale projects, the sky is the limit for the industry.

Grid parity marks the point where solar demand should explode worldwide, and it's blowing through that point faster than most people think.

[purpleoscar]

Sounds great! Don't need the U.N. and worldwide cap and trade. Let solar and nuclear and wind compete. Unless a new technology is cheap enough it won't make it.

[Jive Turkey]

Here's a good article for the anti-science climate change deniers

Skeptic � eSkeptic � Wednesday, February 8th, 2012

[the iron horse]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

Here's a good article for the anti-science climate change deniers

Skeptic � eSkeptic � Wednesday, February 8th, 2012

I read the article, but I enjoyed reading
the many comments even better.

Here's one I liked:

'Why is this article in a sceptical website? The one thing it entirely denies is any idea of scepticism."

[purpleoscar]

Originally Posted by the iron horse

I read the article, but I enjoyed reading
the many comments even better.

Here's one I liked:

'Why is this article in a sceptical website? The one thing it entirely denies is any idea of scepticism."

Don't waste your time. It's all about trolling. None of these people are interested in living without cheap energy and they enjoy plane trips and using cars. They love air-conditioning and heating fuel.

7 Ways to Be a Troll - wikiHow

Find a good audience. This is a common trolling method, in which you lead your audience to believe that you honestly think something that you don’t. Pulling off this troll means finding a space where people usually express their opinions. I mean, you can shout about how you’re sure Obama is an alien bent on stealing the world’s supply of classic Transformers action figures while you’re in the middle of a grocery store, but you’re unlikely to get very much attention. Unless it’s from police.

Common targets are political or religious forums. Or anything to do with politics and religion. Man, people really cannot keep it together when it comes to these topics. These are the easiest trolling targets and a great way to cut your teeth.

I've wasted hours and it doesn't matter. This website is mainly about U2. I've ignored PMs from other posters that figured this out years ago. It's nice to reclaim some hours back.

[Diemen]

I suggest you lay off the trolling accusations.

[the iron horse]

They were going to the location on a fossil powered boat to check on
climate change and then three rescue attempts by fossil powered boats
and a helicopter.

The media carefully avoided the climate change part of the misadventure.

Frozen Out: 98% of Stories Ignore That Ice-bound Ship Was On Global Warming Mission | NewsBusters

[AEON]

Originally Posted by the iron horse

They were going to the location on a fossil powered boat to check on
climate change and then three rescue attempts by fossil powered boats
and a helicopter.

The media carefully avoided the climate change part of the misadventure.

Frozen Out: 98% of Stories Ignore That Ice-bound Ship Was On Global Warming Mission | NewsBusters

I predict this "debate" about climate change won't last more than a few more years. Alternative energy is rapidly on its way to becoming cheaper and more abundant than fossil fuels - this will naturally result in a more sustainable future.

The focus will then shift to cleaning up the mess we've already caused...

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by AEON

I predict this "debate" about climate change won't last more than a few more years. Alternative energy is rapidly on its way to becoming cheaper and more abundant than fossil fuels - this will naturally result in a more sustainable future.

The focus will then shift to cleaning up the mess we've already caused...

i really, really, really hope you're right.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

i really, really, really hope you're right.

The trend is already set...

Already Deutsche Bank, in a recent report, wrote "The cost of unsubsidized solar power is about the same as the cost of electricity from the grid in India and Italy. By 2014 even more countries will achieve solar 'grid parity.'"

The total number of watts of electricity produced by solar energy is growing exponentially, doubling every two years. It is now less than seven doublings from 100%.

In other words, solar will soon be the cheapest energy source on the planet.

CNN article

[the iron horse]

Now that the three-fourths of the United States has been deep chilled by the dreaded Polar Vortex. A term the news and weather people started using a few days before it hit. They always have used the term artic blast.

But I do remember this from The Rocky Horror Picture Show
where everybody in the audience shouts, “Oh no, not the hydromagnetic polar vortex!” before Frank N. Furter throws the switch.

That sounds even scarier that just Polar Vortex!