The Toll of the Anti-Vaccine Movement

[anitram]

I don't have a problem with vaccines, but Gardasil is dangerous and not worth the risk.

Which peer reviewed study convinced you of this?

And I had to wonder why various doctors over the past few years have been pushing me to get it when I'm obviously not someone who needs to worry about STDs. $$$?

Any man who has ever had sex (with a woman or a man) without a condom is a potential HPV carrier. Any woman who has had sex with a man without a condom is potentially infected. So for the few women who die virgins or the few women who only sleep with men themselves are virgins or who were diligent EACH TIME they had sex and used a condom EACH TIME, yes, they don't need Gardasil. For the rest of us, i.e. nearly everyone, it isn't about being "the sort" of person who gets STDs. Wow, honestly.

 

[corianderstem]

 

[Irvine511]

Thinking that there's "a sort" of person who gets STDs is really dangerous.

Treat everyone as if they have an STD until you know otherwise.

 

[Danny Boy]

Agreed that this idiocy is bipartisan.



But let me add:



1) Most vaccine companies have left the country due to medical lawsuits. This falls directly on the Democratic Party which resists all attempts at tort reform.



2) Illegal immigration greatly exacerbates this problem. Am I allowed to say that?

You are allowed to say whatever you want.

However, the US has had the Vaccine Injury Compensation Program since 1986 to protect vaccine manufacturers from frivolous lawsuits and to buffer them from having to pay large settlements. The bill was authored by Henry Waxman, who I'm sure you are aware is a democrat.

 

[Galeongirl]

We just had big news in the paper today, that the vaccine we use for HPV has shown to be extra effective in girls below 15 years of age. So they now will receive 2 shots instead of 3. With older girls the effect isn't as significant, so they'll still receive 3. I have no idea which variant of the vaccine we have, but it also mentioned that it treats the two varieties of the disease that covers 70% of the cases.

 

[LadySpinHead]

I know several women who are in committed, loving marriages, who got HPV from their husbands. It is SO common. I wish the vaccine was available when my friends and I were teens.

And, as a new mom, I can say that to vaccinate or not is a big issue in the "mommy wars." Several months ago I had dinner with a group of pregnant women and the issue of vaccinations brought the table to a heated discussion and then stony silence- way more than the usual suspects of breastfeeding vs. formula and cloth diapers vs disposables. And I'll add that my cousin didn't believe in vaccinations until her infant son was hospitalized and almost died from RSV.

 

[mama cass]

And, as a new mom, I can say that to vaccinate or not is a big issue in the "mommy wars." Several months ago I had dinner with a group of pregnant women and the issue of vaccinations brought the table to a heated discussion and then stony silence- way more than the usual suspects of breastfeeding vs. formula and cloth diapers vs disposables. And I'll add that my cousin didn't believe in vaccinations until her infant son was hospitalized and almost died from RSV.

wow! it wasn't that bad when i was a new mum - it was very rare NOT to vaccinate back then, despite the current MMR scare at the time...

 

[mama cass]

Treat everyone as if they have an STD until you know otherwise.

that's sensible

 

[anitram]

Thinking that there's "a sort" of person who gets STDs is really dangerous.

Treat everyone as if they have an STD until you know otherwise.

 

[Pearl]

Any man who has ever had sex (with a woman or a man) without a condom is a potential HPV carrier. Any woman who has had sex with a man without a condom is potentially infected. So for the few women who die virgins or the few women who only sleep with men themselves are virgins or who were diligent EACH TIME they had sex and used a condom EACH TIME, yes, they don't need Gardasil. For the rest of us, i.e. nearly everyone, it isn't about being "the sort" of person who gets STDs. Wow, honestly.

Thinking that there's "a sort" of person who gets STDs is really dangerous.

Treat everyone as if they have an STD until you know otherwise.

The myth that you can tell that someone is clean comes to mind here.

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

the fact that all these diseases that had been all but eradicated is just baffling to me. i've had every vaccine any doctor has ever recommended to me, i even started getting flu shots this year. granted the winter's not over yet, but so far i haven't even had my usual sinus infection. to me the question of getting vaccinated for something seems like a no-brainer. if it's been fda approved, your doctor recommends it, and the benefits outweigh the risks, there's really no reason left not to get vaccinated for whatever it is.

 

[Galeongirl]

wow! it wasn't that bad when i was a new mum - it was very rare NOT to vaccinate back then, despite the current MMR scare at the time...

I think that comes with the fact that we're spoilt rotten by good healthcare now. Few decades ago those diseases were still around, everybody knew of them and the risks, so it was common sense to vaccinate your children. Nowadays, nobody listens to the doctor anymore, they go on the internet. The internet harbours so many different opinions and of course the loudest are the least realistic. But as people have no idea, they take it for granted, thus don't vaccinate.

It's some kind of cycle, high infection rates + low vaccinations > high infection rates + high vaccinations > lower infection rates + high vaccinations > lower infection rates + low vaccinations > high infection rates, low vaccinations.. something like that. Human stupidity exceeds itself. We need an epidemic before people come to their senses and vaccinate again. Which is totally the point of vaccinating, oh wait...

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

But as people have no idea, they take it for granted, thus don't vaccinate.

taking this slightly out of context as you were referring to people being internet doctors, but people are really taking this to new heights. pox parties are becoming all the rage again. when one kid in a neighbourhood gets sick with one of these contagious diseases like chickenpox, a "party" is thrown and kids come over to basically get sick. the idea is that their parents could then control when they got sick and basically hurry it up, build up their immunity early, and then in theory their kid (along with the rest of the neighbourhood) wouldn't get that disease anymore.

that was all fine back in the day, that's what they did when my mom was a kid because vaccinations for most contagious diseases didn't exist then. but to decide to let your child get sick instead of getting a freaking vaccine? how selfish.

to put it in perspective, keeping with using chickenpox as the example, the vaccine itself causes ~100-150 deaths/year. chickenpox itself (as of 2010, this number's probably gone up now) caused 6800 deaths. not to mention the complications that can arise of the possibility of getting shingles later in life, etc.

 

[Pearl]

taking this slightly out of context as you were referring to people being internet doctors, but people are really taking this to new heights. pox parties are becoming all the rage again. when one kid in a neighbourhood gets sick with one of these contagious diseases like chickenpox, a "party" is thrown and kids come over to basically get sick. the idea is that their parents could then control when they got sick and basically hurry it up, build up their immunity early, and then in theory their kid (along with the rest of the neighbourhood) wouldn't get that disease anymore.

that was all fine back in the day, that's what they did when my mom was a kid because vaccinations for most contagious diseases didn't exist then. but to decide to let your child get sick instead of getting a freaking vaccine? how selfish.

to put it in perspective, keeping with using chickenpox as the example, the vaccine itself causes ~100-150 deaths/year. chickenpox itself (as of 2010, this number's probably gone up now) caused 6800 deaths. not to mention the complications that can arise of the possibility of getting shingles later in life, etc.

My mom did this to me, and I knew a few other moms who did this to my friends. I grew up thinking she did some good for me, but knowing I may get shingles - which is extremely painful - is not pleasant.

 

[martha]

My mom taught deaf students in the 1960s. Many of those children were deaf because their mothers contracted Rubella while pregnant. It's a mild disease in children, but it can fuck up a fetus pretty badly. Before the vaccine came out, my mom sent us across the street to play with the little boy who had a case of Rubella, because she didn't want me to get it when I was old enough to become pregnant, and she didn't want my brother to get it and possibly pass it along to his pregnant wife when the time came. Then, when I was in third grade, the vaccine finally came out. We got it in school, and I got very sick from it. No one cared, though, because then I was protected from a very dangerous disease.

My husband didn't get he vaccine, for whatever reason, and contracted Rubella in college. He was very sick. We also both had chicken pox as adults, and my husband was very nearly hospitalized.

I don't really know what my point is, except than this anti-vaccination bullshit is insane.

 

[martha]

You guys all saw this, right?


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfdZTZQvuCo

 

[bono_212]

Cavallari: She and Cutler not vaccinating their kids

 

[IWasBored]

Makes no sense to me. "I'd rather run the risk of my kid dying of polio than possibly being autistic, because I choose to blindly believe things that have been disproven." Right, that's intelligent.


I generally tend to not get a flu shot, but that has a lot more to do with laziness (and not remembering or wanting to be awake to drive into work to get one when they're offered) than anything else. And count me in as one of those kids who was brought over to play with the neighbor kid when they got chicken pox (pre-vaccine though...doesn't really count).

 

[Pearl]

Measles is spreading in NYC

http://m.nydailynews.com/1.1742983

I just began a job at a private elementary school and we're on alert about this. We're going through students' records to really make sure all the kids are vaccinated, while the NYSDOH breathes down our necks to make sure everyone, even the janitor, is vaccinated. Some of the administrators here are from South Asia and they say the First World got too comfortable and forgot what serious diseases are. But yikes, this is terrible and nerve wracking.

 

[Danny Boy]

Big outbreak in California now, too. And we just received a health alert in Washington about a woman who attended a Kings of Leon concert and visited several other public places while contagious.

Congrats, anti-vaccine morons. We are starting to really feel the effects of your lunacy.

 

[deep]

listened to this on the radio today

How Public Health Advocates Are Trying To Reach Non-Vaccinators : Shots - Health News : NPR

apparently, Whole Foods Stores shoppers and Libertarians are more likely to be the smart people that opt out

 

[Kieran McConville]

In fairness, flu shots are not quite analogous to the polio, measles etc. vaccines.

I mean they're (flu shots) a good idea I guess, but more of a hail-mary pass than anything. Not a guarantee, given how variable the strain may be from season to season.

 

[Galeongirl]

Flu shots are not the same as general vaccines, at all. As Keiran already said, the Flu virus changes rapidly so a vaccine active now might not be useful next year. The vaccines for measles, polio and all the other 'child' vaccine diseases all get their ass kicked by their vaccins so they are easily exterminated by just giving your kid their goddamn shots.

 

[anitram]

Flu shots are always basically guesswork - you have to guess correctly at NEXT year's strain. They include the main flu epidemic strains + whatever the mathematical model predicts will be the main strain next year (based on this year's and previous years' data).

Flu shots are primarily intended for the old, the very young, pregnant women and the immunocompromised. And healthy adults who work in the medical community. For the rest of us, it's a take-it-or-leave-it sort of proposition, tbh.

 

[Galeongirl]

I find flu shots for healthy adults not necessary, cause it really is managable. The Man-Flu, on the other hand..... they really oughta get some meds for that.