The Religion of Peace?

[Vlad n U 2]

He was a socialist once upon a time, wasn't he?

[AEON]

Originally Posted by Vlad n U 2

He was a socialist once upon a time, wasn't he?

Even if he was - does that mean he can't say something valid about the struggle between Islam and Western Civilization?

[AEON]

Wonderful, another acid attack...

[Pearl]

Richard Dawkins' Anti-Muslim Tweets Spark Furor, Even Among Atheist Supporters

He has a point that Muslims were more advanced 1,000 years ago compared to Europe, and these days they aren't doing so great. But coming from him and his choice of words doesn't allow much dialogue or anything constructive.

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by Pearl

But coming from him and his choice of words doesn't allow much dialogue or anything constructive.

His choice of words was matter of fact. The article put "Muslims as a group haven't achieved anything worthwhile since the Middle Ages" into his mouth

[Jive Turkey]

They also fail to mention that the whole thing started this way:

@RichardDawkins 6 Aug
On reflection @mehdirhasan may not believe winged horse. But on reflection can a man of his intelligence believe ANYTHING in Islam?

@RichardDawkins
"MUSLIMS GAVE YOU ALCHEMY AND ALGEBRA!!!!!". Indeed, where would we be without alchemy? Dark Age achievements undoubted. But since then?

@RichardDawkins 8 Aug
All the world's Muslims have fewer Nobel Prizes than Trinity College, Cambridge. They did great things in the Middle Ages, though.

It was a reply to a boast someone tweeting him. But to point that out wouldn't fit the "omg Richard Dawkins is a racist" theme they're desperate to put forward.

Also, it was DAWKINS who tweeted this

@RichardDawkins 8 Aug
Trinity College Cambridge has more Nobel Prizes than any country in the world except USA, Britain, Germany & France. Remarkable fact.

Thanks for the investigative journalism, Huffington Post

[Jive Turkey]

Dawkins' sensible rebuttal is worth a read too. And the last point he addresses is funny if you imagine him saying it

[Pearl]

Originally Posted by Jive Turkey

It was a reply to a boast someone tweeting him. But to point that out wouldn't fit the "omg Richard Dawkins is a racist" theme they're desperate to put forward.

Calling someone makes anti-Muslim comments a racist is silly, because Islam is not a race. Muslims could be any race: black, white, Asian, and so on.

[Jive Turkey]

Indeed

[AEON]

I think it is time the Left admits that Islam is not playing according to rules...

Chris Hitchens saw that, Richard Dawkins sees it...

This is not about Christianity vs. Islam. This is about Western Civilization and everything we hold dear in the post-Enlightenmnet world.

[Irvine511]

Originally Posted by AEON

I think it is time the Left admits that Islam is not playing according to rules...

Chris Hitchens saw that, Richard Dawkins sees it...

This is not about Christianity vs. Islam. This is about Western Civilization and everything we hold dear in the post-Enlightenmnet world.

I feel really badly that average Muslims who go tonwork and love their children have to put up with crap like this.

[AEON]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

I feel really badly that average Muslims who go tonwork and love their children have to put up with crap like this.

Is there another religion out there (as it is practiced today) that singles out and slaughters non-believers?

[LJT]

States are not being held back by Islam, Afghanistan for instance has been a war zone for decades if not for most of the last century or so, I would find that much more pertinent in discussion of a nation's development.

I don't see how we are making the correlation between lack of development and Islam? Saudi Arabia is held back by a dictatorship we are only happy to remain in control of the land's natural resources. In the scheme of things in the middle east I would suggest there are larger structural issues for 'lack of development'. If only we could all be as good as 'western civilisation' able carry on making profits on much of historical ill gotten wealth. Our development came at the price of many others. I am not saying that excludes criticism of anyone but there is a broader context for why much of the middle east is pretty shit place to be, but it isn't really down to Islam or your average Muslim on the street.

At what point in world history did Islam become a limiting factor? How was it a good thing during the the early middle ages and then bad later on? Doctrinal changes happen but there is no universal Islam, it isn't just any one thing, like your Christianity is different from mine, your atheism isn't the same as my atheism. So yes there are certainly strands within Islam that are abhorrent but I do wonder what is the point of this whole sale condemnation of a religion? What do you suggest we do about it?

As an aside on what Dawkin's said, even within context it's fairly daft...the nobel prize has only existed for a century and a bit for the majority of that time only certain upper class white kids got into Cambridge and the like. Might as well say white wealthy bastards have won more nobel prizes than everyone else put together and it would probably be true. There are probably only a few who you would describe as coming from a 'poor' background.

[iron yuppie]

As far as I understand it, Islam became a rallying point for the Middle East during the decolonization period of the early to mid 1900s. It was a means of reforging identity as the European influence dwindled and eventually collapsed. If we consider that states typically suffer mightily in political and economic terms after a colonial power has abruptly left (not by any fault of their own), one can see how the association between Islam and "limitations" or whatever one wants to call it is made. I've said this before, but I think it's a case of false cause to attribute all or the bulk of the problems in the Middle East to Islam.

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by Irvine511

I feel really badly that average Muslims who go tonwork and love their children have to put up with crap like this.

I don't feel bad for them because they have the common sense to pick and choose what parts of their religion they practice. Just like average Christians

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by LJT

States are not being held back by Islam, Afghanistan for instance has been a war zone for decades if not for most of the last century or so, I would find that much more pertinent in discussion of a nation's development.

Might want to talk to some people from the UK

As an aside on what Dawkin's said, even within context it's fairly daft...the nobel prize has only existed for a century and a bit for the majority of that time only certain upper class white kids got into Cambridge and the like. Might as well say white wealthy bastards have won more nobel prizes than everyone else put together and it would probably be true. There are probably only a few who you would describe as coming from a 'poor' background.

There's a shit ton more oil money in the middle east than there is money in the UK. It isn't about money

[LJT]

What do you mean I might want to speak to some people in the UK? I live in Manchester.

Where is that money going to in the middle east? I highly doubt it's doing the local population much good in these areas.

[Jive Turkey]

Are you claiming there are no problems in the UK with regard to muslim extremism?

(though I understand if you're more concerned with Chavs than Muslims)

[Jive Turkey]

Originally Posted by LJT

Where is that money going to in the middle east? I highly doubt it's doing the local population much good in these areas.

Where is the big money being made by "white wealthy bastards" going? Are a couple Saudis hording all the oil money? You don't think there are wealthy populations of muslims in the same way there are wealthy populations in the west?

[LJT]

Don't be silly of course there are wealthy Muslims. Are there as many wealthy Muslims as there are wealthy white folk? Doesn't really matter as most of the countries we are talking about are dictatorships, the money tends to hang around in those elite circles, not much redistribution going on. While redistribution of wealth is pretty crap in Western countries it's nowhere near as bad as it is in the middle east.

I don't think Islamic extremism is a big as problem in the UK as many would like to think, while terrible some of these ideas people espouse are or the attack on the soldier Lee Rigby was, more people still die from traffic accidents, alcohol, domestic abuse, 'normal' murders than any form of terrorism on this soil. We take things way out of proportion and while certain ideas need combating, I don't sit worrying about 'Islamic extremism' when we are still treating our own people and others abroad like crap as well.