The Pope resigns / New Pope discussion - Page 6

Danny Boy · 03-13-2013, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by corianderstem

I look forward to saying "Lighten up, Francis" in the coming years.

His first official decree was actually, "Any of you touch my stuff, and I'll kill you."

Irvine511 · 03-13-2013, 06:03 PM

seems he's really focused on poverty and not being wealthy, and that he acknowledges other religions exist.

Paul Ryan -- a rich kid who took a summer job flipping hamburgers so you know he's self-made and knows about workin' for a livin' -- is going to hate him.

**Diemen** · 03-13-2013, 06:10 PM

Well, it's about as progressive a choice as one could hope for given the state of the Catholic Church and its hierarchy. Definitely more a "man of the people" than Ratzinger ever was, and has some encouraging views on the overly clerical nature of the Church, but he's still virulently homophobic and hasn't offered much in the way of hope on reforming the church's view on the role of women in the church. But who knows. There's definitely a greater chance of seeing some meaningful reform than had we gone with Turkson or any of the Italians.

Pearl · 03-13-2013, 07:24 PM

I'm not being overly optimistic that the Catholic Church will do a 180 and be more in touch with the times. It saddens me that the church has so many leaders with very archaiac views, as if found in many religions. Maybe when I'm 75, religious leaders will think as they should've at the age I am now.

bono_212 · 03-13-2013, 07:46 PM

I just don't know what you want from the Church, honestly. Be more in touch with the times? That's not exactly the Church's job.

Pearl · 03-13-2013, 08:14 PM

Hey, I grew up Catholic and it was a big part of my life. I've heard some people say the whole Catholic culture never really leaves you and you always feel some sort of connection to it. I say I don't identify as Catholic, yet I say I am because I was raised as one. I certainly don't agree with its social views and some of it's traditions, so it's not like I'm overly defendant of the church.

As for being in touch with the times not being the Church's job, I find that comment odd. Are you saying it is supposed to keep it's medieval mindset?

**Diemen** · 03-13-2013, 08:25 PM

I think the argument is that the church's job is to be a (or the) moral authority throughout times, changing or not. The church and its teachings should be constant and unwavering regardless of changing times. If the church changes whenever the culture does, then it loses the moral heft of its positions coming down from God.

Some would argue, anyway. I would argue that God gave us the intelligence to learn about, experiment, and form a better understanding of the world around us, and if that's true then we should be able to reinterpret our understanding of God's teachings in light of that increased understanding.

Badyouken · 03-13-2013, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by anitram

Damn, picked the wrong Argentinian to bet on.

Yeah, I also bet on Messi.

bono_212 · 03-13-2013, 08:52 PM

Basically what Dieman said.

Pearl · 03-13-2013, 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diemen

I think the argument is that the church's job is to be a (or the) moral authority throughout times, changing or not. The church and its teachings should be constant and unwavering regardless of changing times. If the church changes whenever the culture does, then it loses the moral heft of its positions coming down from God.

Some would argue, anyway. I would argue that God gave us the intelligence to learn about, experiment, and form a better understanding of the world around us, and if that's true then we should be able to reinterpret our understanding of God's teachings in light of that increased understanding.

Thanks for clarifying. I also agree with most of what you said.

Of course, there's nothing wrong with religious leaders being more open to women's issues and the gay community - which is what I was referring to. I don't mean the church should sell out, but not be so dogmatic.

cobl04 · 03-13-2013, 09:09 PM

An organisation that huge should really adapt to the changing social landscape. We now understand that scrutinising against gays and women is ridiculous. Why stay so rooted in 12th century ideals?

That said it is great to see a pope from South America and one who is in touch with the poor.

Kieran McConville · 03-13-2013, 09:27 PM

I believe the Church could and, at some point must, shed the dogma that rests on tradition alone. Some of this stuff could be let go of very easily. The business of strict celibate priesthood was a medieval innovation initially on practical grounds (preventing clerical dynasties, not to mention the costs of supporting a priest's family), the evidence suggests the very early Church did have women acting in clerical roles and as our departed Melon pointed out time and time again the prohibition on homosexuality is based upon a terrible misunderstanding of scripture.

That leaves abortion. You can't please everyone.

LemonMelon · 03-13-2013, 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kieran McConville

I believe the Church could and, at some point must, shed the dogma that rests on tradition alone. Some of this stuff could be let go of very easily. The business of strict celibate priesthood was a medieval innovation initially on practical grounds (preventing clerical dynasties, not to mention the costs of supporting a priest's family), the evidence suggests the very early Church did have women acting in clerical roles and as our departed Melon pointed out time and time again the prohibition on homosexuality is based upon a terrible misunderstanding of scripture.

That leaves abortion. You can't please everyone.

Yeah I completely agree with this, particularly with regards to marriage. Paul was very explicit about the potential harm of celibacy and it has manifested itself.

corianderstem · 03-13-2013, 10:06 PM

I heard a newscaster say "Latin America has been waiting 20 centuries for this!"

Um ..... yeah. Pretty sure that would have been pretty low on their wish list up until the last handful of centuries.

Pearl · 03-13-2013, 10:21 PM

This pope reportedly as only one lung. And he's 76 years old. They couldn't have agreed on a Latin American cardinal was a little younger and more healthier?

corianderstem · 03-13-2013, 11:09 PM

If I heard correctly, he lost the lung when he was quite young. If he's made it this far, I think he's doing fine managing with just the one.

Danny Boy · 03-13-2013, 11:19 PM

Indeed paired organs are meant to be redundant.

cobl04 · 03-13-2013, 11:48 PM

Pope Francis Resigns | Video | The Onion - America's Finest News Source

Jive Turkey · 03-14-2013, 12:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bono_212

I just don't know what you want from the Church, honestly. Be more in touch with the times? That's not exactly the Church's job.

To be less irresponsible with the millions of followers would be a good start. Maybe condoms for Africans isn't such a bad idea

bono_212 · 03-14-2013, 12:51 AM

HUUURRRRRRR

I hate the Onion sometimes.

03-13-2013, 06:03 PM	#102
Irvine511 Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 34,215 Local Time: 11:45 AM	seems he's really focused on poverty and not being wealthy, and that he acknowledges other religions exist. Paul Ryan -- a rich kid who took a summer job flipping hamburgers so you know he's self-made and knows about workin' for a livin' -- is going to hate him. __________________

03-13-2013, 07:46 PM	#105
bono_212 Blue Crack Distributor Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 83,919 Local Time: 08:45 AM	I just don't know what you want from the Church, honestly. Be more in touch with the times? That's not exactly the Church's job. __________________

03-13-2013, 08:52 PM	#109
bono_212 Blue Crack Distributor Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 83,919 Local Time: 08:45 AM	Basically what Dieman said. __________________

03-14-2013, 12:51 AM	#120
bono_212 Blue Crack Distributor Join Date: Oct 2005 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 83,919 Local Time: 08:45 AM	HUUURRRRRRR I hate the Onion sometimes. __________________ __________________

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03-13-2013, 06:10 PM	#103
Diemen Resident Photo Buff Forum Moderator Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Somewhere in middle America Posts: 13,687 Local Time: 10:45 AM	Well, it's about as progressive a choice as one could hope for given the state of the Catholic Church and its hierarchy. Definitely more a "man of the people" than Ratzinger ever was, and has some encouraging views on the overly clerical nature of the Church, but he's still virulently homophobic and hasn't offered much in the way of hope on reforming the church's view on the role of women in the church. But who knows. There's definitely a greater chance of seeing some meaningful reform than had we gone with Turkson or any of the Italians.

03-13-2013, 07:24 PM	#104
Pearl Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 5,741 Local Time: 11:45 AM	I'm not being overly optimistic that the Catholic Church will do a 180 and be more in touch with the times. It saddens me that the church has so many leaders with very archaiac views, as if found in many religions. Maybe when I'm 75, religious leaders will think as they should've at the age I am now.

03-13-2013, 08:14 PM	#106
Pearl Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 5,741 Local Time: 11:45 AM	Hey, I grew up Catholic and it was a big part of my life. I've heard some people say the whole Catholic culture never really leaves you and you always feel some sort of connection to it. I say I don't identify as Catholic, yet I say I am because I was raised as one. I certainly don't agree with its social views and some of it's traditions, so it's not like I'm overly defendant of the church. As for being in touch with the times not being the Church's job, I find that comment odd. Are you saying it is supposed to keep it's medieval mindset?

03-13-2013, 08:25 PM	#107
Diemen Resident Photo Buff Forum Moderator Join Date: Sep 2000 Location: Somewhere in middle America Posts: 13,687 Local Time: 10:45 AM	I think the argument is that the church's job is to be a (or the) moral authority throughout times, changing or not. The church and its teachings should be constant and unwavering regardless of changing times. If the church changes whenever the culture does, then it loses the moral heft of its positions coming down from God. Some would argue, anyway. I would argue that God gave us the intelligence to learn about, experiment, and form a better understanding of the world around us, and if that's true then we should be able to reinterpret our understanding of God's teachings in light of that increased understanding.

03-13-2013, 09:09 PM	#111
cobl04 45:33 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: East Point to Shaolin Posts: 59,011 Local Time: 01:45 AM	An organisation that huge should really adapt to the changing social landscape. We now understand that scrutinising against gays and women is ridiculous. Why stay so rooted in 12th century ideals? That said it is great to see a pope from South America and one who is in touch with the poor.

03-13-2013, 09:27 PM	#112
Kieran McConville ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Hi, Violet Posts: 10,253 Local Time: 01:45 AM	I believe the Church could and, at some point must, shed the dogma that rests on tradition alone. Some of this stuff could be let go of very easily. The business of strict celibate priesthood was a medieval innovation initially on practical grounds (preventing clerical dynasties, not to mention the costs of supporting a priest's family), the evidence suggests the very early Church did have women acting in clerical roles and as our departed Melon pointed out time and time again the prohibition on homosexuality is based upon a terrible misunderstanding of scripture. That leaves abortion. You can't please everyone.

03-13-2013, 10:06 PM	#114
corianderstem Blue Crack Distributor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 64,498 Local Time: 08:45 AM	I heard a newscaster say "Latin America has been waiting 20 centuries for this!" Um ..... yeah. Pretty sure that would have been pretty low on their wish list up until the last handful of centuries.

03-13-2013, 10:21 PM	#115
Pearl Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 5,741 Local Time: 11:45 AM	This pope reportedly as only one lung. And he's 76 years old. They couldn't have agreed on a Latin American cardinal was a little younger and more healthier?

03-13-2013, 11:09 PM	#116
corianderstem Blue Crack Distributor Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Seattle Posts: 64,498 Local Time: 08:45 AM	If I heard correctly, he lost the lung when he was quite young. If he's made it this far, I think he's doing fine managing with just the one.

03-13-2013, 11:19 PM	#117
Danny Boy Rock n' Roll Doggie FOB Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Harvard Supermodel Activist of the Decade Runner-Up Posts: 9,562 Local Time: 07:45 AM	Indeed paired organs are meant to be redundant.

03-13-2013, 11:48 PM	#118
cobl04 45:33 Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: East Point to Shaolin Posts: 59,011 Local Time: 01:45 AM	Pope Francis Resigns \| Video \| The Onion - America's Finest News Source