The Murder Of Ahmaud Arbery

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BEAL said:
I feel like we’re trying to force a solution to a reality that doesn’t exist.

I get that other countries will authorize firearms when they have problems escalate and I’m jealous that it seems to be few and far between (at least what makes the world news)

Considering the gun violence and crime here in the States, we’d be authorizing weapons all day every day where it’d probably make sense to just give them a gun again.

On CNN two cops were shot, one killed for a traffic stop. Disarming the police doesn’t stop the gun violence here.

I don’t even know if there can be a solution. Our politicians are scared to pass laws to restrict because they’ll get voted out and replaced with people who’ll roll everything back. And the cycle of death continues.

We’re seeing the same thing play out over a virus. How dare you try and regulate my health!
America = kill or be killed if i wanna
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Throwing our hands up and saying "Things can never get better, we're too far gone" is not a solution.
 
No, I’m saying i don’t know what to do. I would ban guns if it was feasible. It’s not. Regulations, restrictions , common sense laws. Finding ways to get less guns in public is better than nothing.

I don’t agree disarming a police force in a country with this many guns is a good idea.

We can disagree. You can point to other countries but they are not even remotely like the US.

Australia banned weapons but they don’t have a cult of gun worship like here. And who knows if something like that would pass today in their country. Attitudes change.

We have a police culture problem and a gun problem. Both can be improved.

Can we find people with enough guts to do it ?
 
I don't know if police culture can be improved, but I think taking their guns away is a good way to start. And I do think we need to be clear that the idea is not that there are no law enforcement officers anywhere without guns. But most officers do not need them, and they usually lead to violence unnecessarily.

At the very least, a good place to start would be that the 40 percent of police officers with domestic violence in their past should be disarmed. I'm not sure they should even be law enforcement, but they certainly shouldn't have guns.
 
I agree with that. Any sort of violent background should keep them off the force.

Somehow the culture of cops being above the law and some weird fraternity needs to be broken up.

Why not a government oversight that’s separate from DOJ / politics that does nothing but focus on police reform and investigations?
 
Good article. Where reality meets theory, especially as violent crime is starting to rise in major US cities after almost 3 decades of decline.

Excerpt:


Residents in this small Southeast Washington apartment community share the same fears of police and the same desire for a cultural change as those protesting the killing in police custody of George Floyd in Minneapolis. They want bad officers to be fired and jailed. They want society to confront racial bias in law enforcement. And they support pouring money into alternative justice programs.

But their relationship with law enforcement is more complicated and nuanced than the slogans shouted in front of the White House. They are not so quick to support shrinking the size and wallets of the police force. If anything, they want more police, and they’re willing to invest to get them better trained and more attentive to their communities.

Matthew Underwood, 23, a landscaper who said he has been racially profiled — once searched for weapons because he said his seat belt was unfastened in a parked car — complained a police officer was at the far end of Cedar Street when Davon was shot.

“He wasn’t up there where the shooting came from,” Underwood said, noting two gunmen had shot up the street with assault-style weapons five days earlier. “That to me don’t make sense. They got to be more vigilant. They know where it’s coming from.”

Ebony Kibler, who has lived on Cedar Street for more than a decade, said both police and criminals put her 10-year-old son “at risk for maybe not coming back home to me. We already got crime going on. We don’t want to have to feel like we have to fight the police too.”

[...]


Five people have been killed in Anacostia so far this year, and slayings across the city are up 18*percent from last year’s decade high. As frustration mounts, so does the search for solutions.

After the D.C. Council unanimously voted last week for a budget that strips the District’s police force of millions of dollars, which will probably result in a smaller force, Mayor Muriel E. Bowser (D) said, “They made the District less safe.”

The police chief wants more officers and harsher penalties for repeat gun offenders, noting two of the suspects in Davon’s killing were awaiting trial in firearms cases. Members of the D.C. Council say those ideas don’t work and want a smaller force and money diverted to other programs to help communities.

The challenge is to address underlying causes of violence — rooted in a wide array of urban ills that police argue they’re ill-equipped to deal with but confront on a daily basis — poverty, drug addiction, joblessness, underfunded schools and lack of opportunity, to name a few.

Bowser, answering questions about Davon and her city’s spending plan last week, made it clear there are no easy solutions. “Are you suggesting to me there’s some magic answer that’s reflected in my budget?” the mayor said. “I wish there were.”

She added, “But it all makes us feel powerless to stop gun violence.”



Balencia Adams’s mother lives on Cedar Street and saw gunmen as they ran from Davon’s shooting, close enough she saw green laser sights on the guns.

Adams, who is raising a 9-year-old son, lives near the complex and visits often. Before Davon was killed, Adams, 30, said, “I would say defund them,” referring to police. Now she is having second thoughts. Noting the death of the boy, she said, “This is beyond. Police need more presence here. They need to step it up. They’re sitting in their cars. Walk around. Where are all the police people on bicycles?”

Canethia Miller, 23, is raising two young sons on Cedar Street. She is starting a business to teach teens and young men how to invest money.

Miller said she fully supports Black Lives Matter — “it’s about time somebody said something” about police violence. “They need to put their money into training, because the way they’re being trained is not correct.

“The best advice I can give you is stay in the house. I’m so serious. You go outside and think you’re having fun, the police might stop you from doing something, or claim it’s illegal, or you might get shot outside. Either way, it doesn’t work for us.”

Both officials and residents must look for answers, said William Borum, 59, who has lived on Cedar Street for eight years. He attended the demonstrations at Black Lives Matter Plaza and wants changes in policing. He also wants politicians to more strictly regulate firearms and thinks parents should go through their children’s things to learn what they’re up to.

But defund policing?

“Of course not,” Borum said. “That’s totally, totally wrong.”

Nyeem Smith watched Davon since he was 5 and saw him grow alongside his own son. The boys played football together, dreaming of one day playing professionally as teammates. Smith supports the progress the Black Lives Matter movement has made in sparking conversations about *revamping the criminal justice system but said police are still needed.

“If someone shoots someone in the community, there has to be consequences,” Smith said. “For now, they are the only system in place to stop the people who killed Davon.”

But that system is flawed. He wants to see more programs to promote peaceful resolutions to disputes. He thinks police need more homegrown recruiting because “we don’t have people from our communities policing our community.” And he thinks departments need deeper psychological checks to find out if potential hires harbor racist beliefs.

“I think the BLM movement has opened the door,” Smith said. “They have perked up the ears of the people in charge to listen. I ain’t going to say dismantle it, but something has to change.”




https://www.washingtonpost.com/loca...0f46de-c143-11ea-b4f6-cb39cd8940fb_story.html
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I’m waiting for all the info to come out before making any sort of judgement.

The headlines make it sound like he was just a dude getting into his car and got popped in the back by police. My fear is that the narrative being created right could come crashing down once facts are released and the right wing will
Pounce on it and the movement.

What i want to know:

What was the reason for the cops being there
What happened before the video clip starts ?
Why couldn’t five or so cops stop this guy from walking around his car ?
What was the guy doing getting into his car ? If driving away then zero reason to be shot ever.
If he had weapons in front of car, that would explain why the cop shot him.

None of the above excuses the excessive force as seeing the cop pull on the shirt versus a legit restraint was cringeworthy (and that would have meant putting his gun away)

Apologies if more info has come out and I’m behind
 
To me there’s no amount of info that can come out that makes this a trap.

Doesn’t matter if there’s a fucking gun in his car. Sorry, but three officers drew a weapon on a man who has no weapon drawn on anyone.

Obvious ability to have apprehended what they considered to be a suspect via any other means but they chose to shoot. If there’s a gun in the car and therefore not on his person yet, drawing their weapons in the first place is unacceptable and they’re racist fucks who escalated the situation out of fear and hate. If there’s no gun in the car, they’re murderers.
 
LuckyNumber7 said:
To me there’s no amount of info that can come out that makes this a trap.

Doesn’t matter if there’s a fucking gun in his car. Sorry, but three officers drew a weapon on a man who has no weapon drawn on anyone.

Obvious ability to have apprehended what they considered to be a suspect via any other means but they chose to shoot. If there’s a gun in the car and therefore not on his person yet, drawing their weapons in the first place is unacceptable and they’re racist fucks who escalated the situation out of fear and hate. If there’s no gun in the car, they’re murderers.
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I agree with all of this except the murderers part, as he's still alive.
 
LuckyNumber7 said:
To me there’s no amount of info that can come out that makes this a trap.

Doesn’t matter if there’s a fucking gun in his car. Sorry, but three officers drew a weapon on a man who has no weapon drawn on anyone.

Obvious ability to have apprehended what they considered to be a suspect via any other means but they chose to shoot. If there’s a gun in the car and therefore not on his person yet, drawing their weapons in the first place is unacceptable and they’re racist fucks who escalated the situation out of fear and hate. If there’s no gun in the car, they’re murderers.
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Blake was tased prior to the video clip shown - so there was an effort to use non lethal force. The person who recorded the video also stated that he heard police yell "drop the knife" prior to when he began recording.

That's not an excuse for shooting him in the back whatsoever - but if there was a knife it does give a reason as to why guns were already drawn.

Unless there was a gun in the car that he was reaching for - which or these was you would clearly think it would have come out by now - then there is zero reason to shoot him and yes, that should be prosecuted as murder.
 
Headache in a Suitcase said:
Blake was tased prior to the video clip shown - so there was an effort to use non lethal force. The person who recorded the video also stated that he heard police yell "drop the knife" prior to when he began recording.

That's not an excuse for shooting him in the back whatsoever - but if there was a knife it does give a reason as to why guns were already drawn.

Unless there was a gun in the car that he was reaching for - which or these was you would clearly think it would have come out by now - then there is zero reason to shoot him and yes, that should be prosecuted as murder.
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Mmm you see, the notion that a knife constitutes four guns in retaliation is something wrong with our policing. Knife crime happens all the time in the UK and the police are equipped to deal with it. It can in fact constitute armed police, but not necessarily.

Police are trigger happy. “A weapon” is enough evidence to shoot you. It could be a freaking butter knife and they’d shoot you. It could be a baseball bat and they’d shoot you.

Police in our country are trained to shoot. They’re trained to use their weapons. People who become police officers want to shoot. They want to use their weapons. You can tell by the way that officer held his gun like a fucking piece and unloaded copious amounts of bullets into a slumped over dying individual. Every single shot beyond shot #1 was indefensibly “you didn’t listen to me and this is what you get.” Maybe shot #1 was that too, or maybe just accidental trigger happiness.
 
They've put out a warrant for the 17-year-old kid who drove from Illinois with his militia buddies and murdered two people last night. He's apparently returned to Illinois and has not been apprehended.

ETA: He may have since been arrested. When the initial complaint was announced, he had not been arrested yet.
 
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