The legacy of President George W. Bush

The friendliest place on the web for anyone that follows U2.
If you have answers, please help by responding to the unanswered posts.

CTU2fan

Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS
Joined
May 21, 2004
Messages
5,366
What will it be? How will history view the GWB Presidency in 10, 20, 50 years? He's still got a year & a half to go but right now what stands out to me is (of course) Iraq and his appointments to the SCOTUS.

I think it's interesting to look at Bush because he's a pretty unpopular President, yet he's served 2 terms. I also doubt there's ever been a US President with a more negative image throughout the world...do you see any scenario where Bush and the Bush Administration are viewed historically in a positive light?
 
Even if Iraq did become a shining beacon of light for democracy in the Middle East I doubt it could ever be attributed to Bush, Blair and co.

So no I don't think he and the current administration could ever be viewed in a positive light at the very least in foreign policy.
 
Re: Re: The legacy of President George W. Bush

Ormus said:


He will be the Emperor Commodus of our day.

Bush would be have to be mad to try to claim he herculean in anyway...and he would derfinitely be bad if he started to rename Washington or the senate in his honour.

What parallels are you drawing though between Commodus and Bush? Meglomania and just a general destruction of the administration?
 
Re: Re: Re: The legacy of President George W. Bush

LJT said:
Bush would be have to be mad to try to claim he herculean in anyway...and he would derfinitely be bad if he started to rename Washington or the senate in his honour.

What parallels are you drawing though between Commodus and Bush? Meglomania and just a general destruction of the administration?

Bush doesn't have to overtly claim that he is "Herculean," but he and his supporters certainly go out of their way to make a president who comes across as "weak" and "dim-witted" seem like a "strong leader"--which is, in a way, "Herculean" in itself.

Commodus is the second emperor to be the son of a previous Roman Emperor, just as Bush is the second president to be the son of a previous president (John Quincy Adams being the first son of a president to become president).

Commodus' reign was initially dominated by his father's senior advisors, just as Bush's was (and, to a substantial degree, still is).

Then I'm reminded of the quote from Dio Cassius that Commodus' reign turned the Roman Empire "from a kingdom of gold to one of rust and iron," which is a good metaphor for what he has turned the United States into in the minds of the world. We've gone from a "great nation" to a parody of one.

And the choice of Commodus, rather than another emperor, was particularly purposeful, because he was far from the cruelest or worst emperors even within the earlier or later periods of the Empire, and while he's noted as the emperor that started the Empire's slow descent into disintegration, there were emperors after him that were relatively strong and tried to halt the decline.

Bush, like Commodus, should never have been a leader of any state.
 
he will be remembered as being arguably the most incompetent executive ever to hold office. "worst" is a hard thing to quantify; "incompetent" is more tangible.
 
unico said:
I hear that his approval rating is at an all time low 29%
I don't think that is low enough!

Cheney is at 13%. That's 10 points away from the margin of error!
 
Re: Re: Re: Re: The legacy of President George W. Bush

Ormus said:


Bush doesn't have to overtly claim that he is "Herculean," but he and his supporters certainly go out of their way to make a president who comes across as "weak" and "dim-witted" seem like a "strong leader"--which is, in a way, "Herculean" in itself.

Commodus is the second emperor to be the son of a previous Roman Emperor, just as Bush is the second president to be the son of a previous president (John Quincy Adams being the first son of a president to become president).

Commodus' reign was initially dominated by his father's senior advisors, just as Bush's was (and, to a substantial degree, still is).

Then I'm reminded of the quote from Dio Cassius that Commodus' reign turned the Roman Empire "from a kingdom of gold to one of rust and iron," which is a good metaphor for what he has turned the United States into in the minds of the world. We've gone from a "great nation" to a parody of one.

And the choice of Commodus, rather than another emperor, was particularly purposeful, because he was far from the cruelest or worst emperors even within the earlier or later periods of the Empire, and while he's noted as the emperor that started the Empire's slow descent into disintegration, there were emperors after him that were relatively strong and tried to halt the decline.

Bush, like Commodus, should never have been a leader of any state.

Ah Ok gotcha...but does this mean you think the US is in a slow state of decline as the world's superpower? The Roman Empire went on for another century and a half after Commodus relatively intact...and of course the Byzantine Empire was a continuation of the Roman Empire of sorts and it lasted another 600 years after that.
 
Wasn't expecting the Commodus comparison...seems somewhat apt, there are parallels to be sure.

Hopefully some of the GWB supporters will chime in.
 
President Bush will be remembered as a triumphant president who led our country through the most turbulent times in the last 60 years. Who unexpectedly was not told by the previous administration of intelligence that there was going to be terrorist attacks, and guided our nation through our worst national disaster ever. I applaud him for doing his best to resolve and punish those involved, but also solidify relationships with countries who were not before that always get overmentioned.

He also added 8.2 million jobs during his 8 years to the economy. Not bad. Inflation rates dropped. Overall the economy is better than it has ever been and our nation is flourishing. Taxes are low, which is good for all of us. He has reformed many things, gone against his parties will at times, but also done what he believes is best for the American people.

I look at the legacies of Reagan, Carter, Ford. Presidents who were not popular when they were president. They are now cherished and very well respected for the policies they put in place. I think we will see the same for President Bush. We will look in 7 or 8 years after this next president and say, "Wow, he really was right. Thank you."
 
struckpx said:
President Bush will be remembered as a triumphant president who led our country through the most turbulent times in the last 60 years.

I'm curious, could you please list some of Bush's triumphs so far?

Who unexpectedly was not told by the previous administration of intelligence that there was going to be terrorist attacks

"Bin Laden Determined to Strike the United States" wasn't clear enough for him, was it? And I find it absolutely hilarious(ly pahetic) that you are implying that 9/11 is the fault of the Clinton administration, like they knew it would happen and said nothing. Absolute and utter bullshit.

We will look in 7 or 8 years after this next president and say, "Wow, he really was right. Thank you."

If we're lucky 7 or 8 years will be enough to rebuild our tarnished image with the rest of the world.
 
Last edited:
struckpx said:
President Bush will be remembered as a triumphant president who led our country through the most turbulent times in the last 60 years.

Based on the fact that you are in the very small minority about Nixon, I feel safe that Bush's legacy will paint him as one of the worse presidents in history.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


Based on the fact that you are in the very small minority about Nixon, I feel safe that Bush's legacy will paint him as one of the worse presidents in history.

nowhere in this thread do I mention Nixon. He was a balanced president however, both foreign and domestic.
 
struckpx said:


nowhere in this thread do I mention Nixon. He was a balanced president however, both foreign and domestic.

Not my point. I'm saying your judgment of president's doesn't have the best track record.
 
struckpx said:


nowhere in this thread do I mention Nixon. He was a balanced president however, both foreign and domestic.


Well, but your opinion of Nixon voiced in the Nixon thread hasn't changed, has it?

People often like to forget about the bad things, and start to paint everything nicer that it was later. Hence the saying of the good ol' times. You can see it with some East Germans who are now getting nostalgic about the GDR and the good aspects of it, conveniently leaving out how bad they wanted to get out of there because of lack of freedom, goods and oppression etc.
 
Vincent Vega said:



Well, but your opinion of Nixon voiced in the Nixon thread hasn't changed, has it?

People often like to forget about the bad things, and start to paint everything nicer that it was later. Hence the saying of the good ol' times. You can see it with some East Germans who are now getting nostalgic about the GDR and the good aspects of it, conveniently leaving out how bad they wanted to get out of there because of lack of freedom, goods and oppression etc.

the nixon thread has nothing to do w/ this thread.
 
BonoVoxSupastar said:


Not my point. I'm saying your judgment of president's doesn't have the best track record.

there we go. since i disagree with you on nixon, i have a bad track record. every time someone does not agree with you, you give them a negative view. great way to live life.
 
phillyfan26 said:
Bush will be remembered as being terrible, there's no doubt about that.

how so? there have been no terrorist attacks here since he became president. 9/11 is directly related to clinton and his failures to do anything about it. i would call that a huge success. have you not read about the different plots that have been foiled? or are you to high to read anything positive about bush?
 
struckpx said:
or are you to high to read anything positive about bush?

That sentence kills me. :lol:

Bush Jr. will go down in history as one of the worst presidents of all time. Not just because of his policies, but his mishandling of said policies and corrupt, bureaucratic administration.

I'd put him on the list right now with Richard Nixon, Andrew Jackson, Andrew Johnson, and Herbert Hoover.

At this point, it would not surprise me if Bush was the last president before the apocalypse.
 
struckpx said:


the nixon thread has nothing to do w/ this thread.

"Based on the fact that you are in the very small minority about Nixon, I feel safe that Bush's legacy will paint him as one of the worse presidents in history."

My, is it so hard? Your opinion about Nixon is the same, isn't it?
Taking this, BVS concluded that you set different standards for a President to perform well under your eyes.
 
struckpx said:


how so? there have been no terrorist attacks here since he became president. 9/11 is directly related to clinton and his failures to do anything about it. i would call that a huge success. have you not read about the different plots that have been foiled? or are you to high to read anything positive about bush?

Wrong. It was an attack on the "Western World", which is neither related to Bush sr. Clinton, or Bush jr.
They didn't care who was President and what he did.
 
Vincent Vega said:


Wrong. It was an attack on the "Western World", which is neither related to Bush sr. Clinton, or Bush jr.
They didn't care who was President and what he did.

Clinton's administration has gone on the record saying they had prior intelligence relating to 9/11 type attacks.
 
struckpx said:


how so? there have been no terrorist attacks here since he became president. 9/11 is directly related to clinton and his failures to do anything about it.

Funny, I seem to remember Bush getting an urgent memo entitled "Bin Laden Determined to Attack United States" and doing nothing about it, and Ms. Rice even publicly admitting as much. Richard Clarke also spoke of trying to pass on information about terrorist activity once the Bush administration took over, and essentially being brushed aside. Those seem like pretty large failures there.

Do you have any evidence to back up the claim that 9/11 is directly related to Clinton and his failures to do anything about it? Because that's not the kind of claim you can make without presenting some sort of evidence.
 
Diemen said:


Funny, I seem to remember Bush getting an urgent memo entitled "Bin Laden Determined to Attack United States" and doing nothing about it, and Ms. Rice even publicly admitting as much. Richard Clarke also spoke of trying to pass on information about terrorist activity once the Bush administration took over, and essentially being brushed aside. Those seem like pretty large failures there.

Do you have any evidence to back up the claim that 9/11 is directly related to Clinton and his failures to do anything about it? Because that's not the kind of claim you can make without presenting some sort of evidence.

good source, Richard Clarke. Let's decipher the critiques he makes of the Clinton administration in his fine book about the lack of organization they used towards combatting al-Qaeda.

examples from his book for reference:

pg. 223 - it says that in late 2000, of the National Security Council convened — among them, the heads of the CIA, the FBI, the Attorney General, the chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, and the secretaries of State, Defense. It was just after al Qaeda’s attack on the USS Cole. But neither the FBI nor the CIA would say that al Qaeda was behind the bombing, and there was little support for a retaliatory strike.

Of course today we know Al Qaeda was behind it, for they have even admitted it publicly.

pg. 204 - Clarke vents his frustration at the CIA’s slow-walking on the question of killing bin Laden. Why could we not find a group of Afghans, Americans, third-country citizens, etc. to kill him?

pg. 210 - on the CIA's refusal to budget the money towards al-qaeda: “The formal, official CIA response was that there were [no funds],” Clarke writes. “Another way to say that was that everything they were doing was more important than fighting al Qaeda.”

pg. 217 - describes a colleague, Roger Cressey, who was frustrated after meeting with an FBI representative on the subject of terrorism. “That fucker is going to get some Americans killed,” Clarke reports Cressey saying. “He just sits there like a bump on a log.”

Clinton had the best opportunity to kill Bin Laden, take care of the movement that we see today, but he did nothing. The commander-in-chief, could not find the will to order the military into action against al Qaeda, and Bill Clinton, the head of the executive branch, could not find the will to order the CIA and FBI to act.

So, Mr. President Clinton, the next time you are on Fox dissing Bush, remember your history of leading our country during a time of terror. All of these relate directly to 9/11
 
Hmmm, all of those seem to be more of a problem with the CIA and not Clinton directly.

And none of that explains the fact that for the first 8 months of Bush's presidency he did nothing to combat terrorism either.
 
Diemen said:
Hmmm, all of those seem to be more of a problem with the CIA and not Clinton directly.

And none of that explains the fact that for the first 8 months of Bush's presidency he did nothing to combat terrorism either.

source/evidence?
 
Back
Top Bottom