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#161 |
Refugee
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,943
Local Time: 06:53 AM
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The main point I was making on that issue was that the overwhelming majority of US military personal were never involved or engaged in such actions. I'm not surprised though that some still don't understand that.
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#162 | |
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,246
Local Time: 02:53 AM
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Obama will be held to the same standard. but that article doesn't seem to have much to stand on. it's obsessed with the "ticking time bomb" scenario, which totally misunderstands the situation. |
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#163 | ||
Blue Crack Supplier
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Washington, DC
Posts: 33,246
Local Time: 02:53 AM
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here's a direct riposte to the torture-apologia op-ed posted earlier:
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now that we know that the very "bad apples" that some used to try and excuse and laugh away such serious crimes were positioned at the very top of the barrell -- namely, Mr. Bush himself -- i wonder if we could come up with a number. the exact number of innocent people (or perhaps just petty angry kids) it would be okay to torture based on the slim chance that, just once, someday, we'll get something out of someone who knows something about a terrorist plot scheduled in an hour and we can then send Jack Bauer to dismantle the atomic bomb. how many? |
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#164 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 11:53 PM
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![]() ![]() Christmas in Baghdad BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- From a distance, it looks like an apparition: a huge multi-colored hot-air balloon floating in the Baghdad sky, bearing a large poster of Jesus Christ. Below it, an Iraqi flag. ![]() Santa and his helpers stand under palm trees at Baghdad's first public Christmas festival. 1 of 3 more photos » Welcome to the first-ever public Christmas celebration in Baghdad, held Saturday and sponsored by the Iraqi Interior Ministry. Once thought to be infiltrated by death squads, the Ministry now is trying to root out sectarian violence -- as well as improve its P.R. image. The event takes place in a public park in eastern Baghdad, ringed with security checkpoints. Interior Ministry forces deployed on surrounding rooftops peer down at the scene: a Christmas tree decorated with ornaments and tinsel; a red-costumed Santa Claus waving to the crowd, an Iraqi flag draped over his shoulders; a red-and-black-uniformed military band playing stirring martial music, not Christmas carols. On a large stage, children dressed in costumes representing Iraq's many ethnic and religious groups -- Kurds, Turkmen, Yazidis, Christians, Arab Muslims not defined as Sunni or Shiite -- hold their hands aloft and sing "We are building Iraq!" Two young boys, a mini-policeman and a mini-soldier sporting painted-on mustaches, march stiffly and salute. Even before I can ask Interior Ministry spokesman Major-General Abdul Karim Khalaf a question, he greets me with a big smile. "All Iraqis are Christian today!" he says. "Now that we have crossed that hurdle and destroyed the incubators of terrorism," he says, "and the security situation is good, we have to go back and strengthen community ties." In spite of his claim, the spokesman is surrounded by heavy security. Yet this celebration shows that the security situation in Baghdad is improving. ![]() Many of the people attending the Christmas celebration appear to be Muslims, with women wearing head scarves. Suad Mahmoud, holding her 16-month-old daughter, Sara, tells me she is indeed Muslim, but she's very happy to be here. "My mother's birthday also is this month, so we celebrate all occasions," she says, "especially in this lovely month of Christmas and New Year." Father Saad Sirop Hanna, a Chaldean Christian priest, is here too. He was kidnapped by militants in 2006 and held for 28 days. He knows firsthand how difficult the lot of Christians in Iraq is but, he tells me, "We are just attesting that things are changing in Baghdad, slowly, but we hope that this change actually is real. We will wait for the future to tell us the truth about this." He just returned from Rome. "I came back to Iraq because I believe that we can live here," he says. "I have so many [Muslim] friends and we are so happy they started to think about things from another point of view and we want to help them." The Christmas celebration has tables loaded with cookies and cakes. Families fill plates and chat in the warm winter sun. Santa balloons hang from trees. An artist uses oil paint to create a portrait of Jesus. In the middle of the park there's an art exhibit, the creation of 11- and 12-year-olds: six displays, each about three feet wide, constructed of cardboard and Styrofoam, filled with tiny dolls dressed like ordinary people, along with model soldiers and police. They look like model movie sets depicting everyday life in Baghdad. Afnan, 12 years old, shows me her model called "Arresting the Terrorists." "These are the terrorists," she tells me. "They were trying to blow up the school." In the middle of the street a dead "terrorist" sprawls on the asphalt, his bloody arm torn from his body by an explosion. Afnan tells me she used red nail polish to paint the blood. A little plastic dog stands nearby. "What is he doing?" I ask. "He looks for terrorists and searches for weapons and explosives," Afnan says. Her mother, the children's art teacher, Raja, shows me another child's display called "Baghdad Today." "This is a wedding," Raja explains. "Despite the terrorism, our celebrations still go ahead. This is a park, families enjoying time. And this is a market where people go shopping without fear of bombings. This is a mosque where people can pray with no fear." In the middle is a black mound that looks like a body bag. Policemen and Interior Ministry forces surround it. "This is terrorism," she tells me. "We killed it and destroyed it, and our lives went back to normal." A Christmas tale perhaps, I think, but one that many Iraqis hope will come true. ![]() |
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#165 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: The Wild West
Posts: 12,518
Local Time: 04:53 PM
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"we should invade their countries, kill their leaders and convert them to Christianity." - Anne Coulter
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#166 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,600
Local Time: 10:53 PM
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It looks like Bush is finally creating new jobs
putting people back to work ![]() Quote:
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#167 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 11:53 PM
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On Character:
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#168 |
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,647
Local Time: 01:53 AM
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To privately meet with families and those they've directly sent into harm's way is the least they could do, frankly.
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#169 | ||
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 11:53 PM
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#170 |
Resident Photo Buff
Forum Moderator Join Date: Sep 2000
Location: Somewhere in middle America
Posts: 13,647
Local Time: 01:53 AM
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No I didn't miss that. I'm glad he did it, but again, when you're directly responsible for sending them into harm's way in the first place, meeting with and/or writing personal letters to the families of those who died is the least you could do, in my view anyway.
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#171 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 11:53 PM
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Yeah uh hum.
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#172 |
Babyface
Join Date: Dec 2008
Posts: 19
Local Time: 12:23 PM
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Yeah you are right. It's almost impossible to illustrate any of the positive examples during his rule. On the contrary, if we have to mention the negatives, believe the list is endless full of violence and misdeeds.
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#173 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,600
Local Time: 10:53 PM
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One of his best supporters says that optimistically, the best history will eventually give W is a C - .
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#174 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 10,885
Local Time: 01:53 AM
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I would like to point out that, if a member of the United States Military is given an unlawful order it is that soldier's duty and responsibility to not carry out the order.
I think that is it reprehensible to the thousands of soldiers who do their duty on a daily basis, to be lumped in with the people who committed the acts of troture. What is also reprehensible is that this administration has been found to have participated in acts of deception with the American people. It appears now, that the acts of torture originated high up the chain. At this time, there is more, way more, than enough evidence that this administration hand picked the intelligence that favored the position that there were WMD in Iraq. In doing this, and the ignoring of the information that demonstrated any position to the contrary, this president led us to war under false pretenses. So his saying it does not matter, he would have made the same decision, is utter and complete bullshit said to save face. Colin Powell, someone who has more credibility, has publicly stated otherwise. The president, could not have EVER convinced the congress to authorize the use of force, had the intelligence not been cherry picked to make their case. This administration will go down in history as an utter failure as historians poor through the documents we have yet to see. Never mind what we already know. Ultimately, the middle east was not threatened by Saddam since the Iraq War. Ultimately, he was contained. Ultimately, history will judge this adminstration harshly for the manner in which they convinced this country to go to war. Eventually, as the years go by, the evidence will pile up, and we will know the truth. Right now, what I see is the tip of an ice berg, filled with lies, used to manipulate us all. Still waiting for the armchair quarterback in this forum to sign up for the cause he so deeply cares about. Maybe the two or three people I know might have been spared the loss of their hands and lives. And here is the really, truly sad statement....TERRORISM....has continued despite the global war on terror. THere is no winning a war on terror. Any person, who makes the decision that they are going to hurt other people, and puts their mind and energy to it, are more than likely going to succeed. That is a fact. The world is too big, and the more we kill, the more enemies are created. It truly is a wonderful cycle. We, will be feeling the long term effects of this for years to come. |
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#175 | |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 11:53 PM
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#176 |
Forum Moderator
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 7,471
Local Time: 07:53 AM
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Albanians aren't Slavs, Serbs are however.
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#177 |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Nov 2002
Posts: 27,861
Local Time: 02:53 AM
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On "Fox News Sunday," former President George H. W. Bush said he's ready for another Bush in the White House. He hopes his son Jeb runs for Senate in Florida and one day for President.
"I think he'd be an outstanding senator ... I'd like to see him be president some day," Bush said. "Right now is probably a bad time because maybe we've had enough Bushes in there." MAYBE???? Talk about rubbing salt on a wound.. On "Fox News Sunday," former President George H. W. Bush defended his son's record. "His mother and father" are "very proud of him," Bush said. Host Chris Wallace pointed out that the former president had acknowledged some failures in his son's two terms and asked him to elaborate. "No! You can go back to your, what do you call it, your Google, and you figure out all that," Bush responded. |
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#178 |
ONE
love, blood, life Join Date: May 2002
Location: Tempe, Az USA
Posts: 12,856
Local Time: 11:53 PM
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your...Google..
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#179 | |
Blue Crack Addict
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: A far distance down.
Posts: 28,600
Local Time: 10:53 PM
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Quote:
Now is not the time?? We are in the worse crisis ever, so he wants to wait until everything is peachy keen???? I was hoping this worthless %&*@ would run, so the people could soundly reject him. He is a big part of the Bush Legacy. And deserves to hear the people's verdict. ( I suppose he commissioned a survey / poll and knows where he stands ) |
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#180 | |
Rock n' Roll Doggie
Join Date: Feb 2001
Location: all around in the dark - everywhere
Posts: 3,531
Local Time: 01:53 AM
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