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Old 11-05-2008, 08:32 PM   #101
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Wow. I had no idea trying to strip us of our civil liberties at every turn was how a president shows willingness to "stand by us." I guess that's why I'm not writing for the Wall Street Journal.

And does this Shapiro guy ever talk to anyone living outside the USA ever? Or read any foreign newspapers? If he thinks Americans don't respect Bush, he'd have a heart attack if he knew what the rest of the world thinks of him.
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Old 11-05-2008, 09:32 PM   #102
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Wow. I had no idea trying to strip us of our civil liberties at every turn was how a president shows willingness to "stand by us." I guess that's why I'm not writing for the Wall Street Journal.

And does this Shapiro guy ever talk to anyone living outside the USA ever? Or read any foreign newspapers? If he thinks Americans don't respect Bush, he'd have a heart attack if he knew what the rest of the world thinks of him.

I don't understand this, so could you please explain how, specifically and personally, your civil liberties have been stripped in the last 8 years?

2nd part, I was in Europe for a few weeks this summer talked politics with plenty of italians, greeks, and turks(all awesome people!)....Criticisms of Bush honestly didn't seem that different from what I hear from the left here in the States...Actually the most radical person i encountered in Italy was my sister who is on the far left...she was telling the owner of our hotel that our country is fascist and Bush is like Hitler(which it was embarrasing to hear my sister say this to a resident of a country that was ravaged by fasicsm in the 30's and 40's) ..but of course this is only my individual experience and I have no doubt that Bush is despised in many places abroad.
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Old 11-05-2008, 09:37 PM   #103
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I don't understand this, so could you please explain how, specifically and personally, your civil liberties have been stripped in the last 8 years?

Why does it have to be personal?

Do you not understand that rights were taken away?


"When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out."

Pastor Martin Niemöller
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Old 11-05-2008, 09:40 PM   #104
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Why does it have to be personal?

Do you not understand that rights were taken away?


"When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.
When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I was not a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out."

Pastor Martin Niemöller
Good Point, it doesn't have to be personal.

I've just honestly never heard examples of how our rights have been taken away...there have been wrongful investigations and interrogations, just like there have always been wrongful arrests, punishments, and executions.
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Old 11-05-2008, 09:40 PM   #105
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Old Europe isn't particularly happy with Bush's policies, indeed. But I hate those comparisons with Hitler as well.
Being way more liberal in general, Bush didn't have an easy stand in most eyes. And he made sure to get despised with the arrogance he and his administration showed when a few of us decided not to join him in the Iraq war.
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Old 11-05-2008, 09:46 PM   #106
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I don't understand this, so could you please explain how, specifically and personally, your civil liberties have been stripped in the last 8 years?


George W. Bush has given himself the power to detain you, an American citizen, without reason or explanation, for an indefinite period of time, at his own discretion.
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Old 11-05-2008, 09:54 PM   #107
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Good Point, it doesn't have to be personal.

I've just honestly never heard examples of how our rights have been taken away...there have been wrongful investigations and interrogations, just like there have always been wrongful arrests, punishments, and executions.
Yes. Didn't most senators, including President-elect Obama, vote FOR the re-authorization of the Patriot Act ?
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Old 11-05-2008, 10:19 PM   #108
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Good Point, it doesn't have to be personal.

I've just honestly never heard examples of how our rights have been taken away...there have been wrongful investigations and interrogations, just like there have always been wrongful arrests, punishments, and executions.
Wire taps without warrant, they can check the books you've checked out, the websites you've looked at, they can detain you without reason...just because you aren't Muslim doesn't mean you can't be next. You give them an inch and they can take a foot...
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Old 11-05-2008, 11:22 PM   #109
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George W. Bush has given himself the power to detain you, an American citizen, without reason or explanation, for an indefinite period of time, at his own discretion.
Is this American citizens on American soil?
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Old 11-05-2008, 11:40 PM   #110
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Yes Wanderer, yes.........


Look it up.
Please.


Preferably through the show "Frontline" on PBS here in the US.
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Old 11-05-2008, 11:48 PM   #111
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Try doing a semester in the US as exchange student. If you still feel welcome by Homeland Security or even the workers in the consulate afterward you have a very high tolerance for disrespectful treatment. I honestly felt sorry for the Iranian student that day who had to go through the procedures at the consulate.
The whole process leaves you with the impression those departments involved in immigration just can't believe you are voluntarily and with good intentions visiting the country.
Higher security standards is one thing, disrespectful treatment quite another.

Several kidnappings of German and other foreign citizens, the detainment of tourists at the airport without letting him or his family know for weeks where he is or what will happen and other such incidents are one of the real legacies of this current president.
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Old 11-05-2008, 11:55 PM   #112
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I have to say that as somebody on a work visa in the US, I have never had even an iota of a problem. Everyone, and I mean, everyone from airport security to other US officials was extremely polite and welcoming and treated me without any suspicion, at least outwardly. Part of it likely has to do with my country of origin, part of it maybe has to do with having lawyers do all my paperwork properly at a significant cost but resulting in smooth processing, part if it has to do with the fact I am probably a very low risk for staying in the US. Nevertheless, I can't complain about anything.
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Old 11-06-2008, 12:04 AM   #113
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Is this American citizens on American soil?

yes.
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Old 11-06-2008, 03:44 AM   #114
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I think being a surly suspicious person comes with the job as the frontline to all the peeps wanting to come in a spoil your pure and innocent homeland

Last time I visited the US with my mum the custom dude was the biggest dick, you had to scan your fingerprints and my mum has arthritus in her hand and couldn't press hard enough. He actually said 'i'll give you 3 more seconds to PRESS HARDER OR YOU'LL BE DENIED ENTRY' I told him to take a chill pill and he barked 'BEHIND THE LINE OR i'LL CALL SECURITY'
meh. It wa sonly one guy, but they were all like that, being rude especially to an african family in front of us. All of them were detained to be searched further and the woman was so frightened, hiding her face in her shawl and he was shouting 'stop hiding your face, unless you don't want to be granted entry!'
it certainly got our holiday off to a shit start. But i New york too much to worry about one custom pig!
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Old 11-06-2008, 06:21 PM   #115
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George W. Bush has given himself the power to detain you, an American citizen, without reason or explanation, for an indefinite period of time, at his own discretion.
Hallelujah, brother!!! Nothing quite like a good detaining. Thanks, George.

A Bush quote from earlier today: “...This will be America’s first wartime transition in four decades.”

Personally, I cannot wait for the transition--the transition from rhetoric, propaganda, and the politics of fear.
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:30 PM   #116
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I have to say that as somebody on a work visa in the US, I have never had even an iota of a problem. Everyone, and I mean, everyone from airport security to other US officials was extremely polite and welcoming and treated me without any suspicion, at least outwardly. Part of it likely has to do with my country of origin, part of it maybe has to do with having lawyers do all my paperwork properly at a significant cost but resulting in smooth processing, part if it has to do with the fact I am probably a very low risk for staying in the US. Nevertheless, I can't complain about anything.
It certainly depends on personal experience. I wouldn't say the people there were especially mean. The guy I lastly talked to and one of the younger employees were actually very friendly. But the rest: not so.
And it was the questions in the forms that make you feel like: Why are they suspecting me? Or paying the nice Sevis fee for your own observation.
Sure, about the question, "Are you a terrorist or close to a terrorist organization?" I could only laugh (just like I did when I was asked that and similar questions for the Australian working holiday visa, or the fact that for the Australian immigration department you could still be a citizen of the GDR).

But what shocked me more was when I read the story of the Italian tourist that got mistaken for someone else at the airport, detained and held in a prison not knowing about the charges, without having contact to his family who didn't know where he was, and without proper legal representation for days. Even after it was clear that it was a mix up they refused to release him and left him unclear about his situation. And that in the country that proudly claims to spread democracy.
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:36 PM   #117
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GW started off as a pimp and lost control of his stable.

<>

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Old 11-06-2008, 09:39 PM   #118
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GW started off as a pimp and lost control of his stable.
That should be the opening line of his biography...

And yes he was doing a lot of pimping back then, in fact he was pimping and hooking at the same time... anything to get in.
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Old 11-06-2008, 09:44 PM   #119
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And yes he was doing a lot of pimping back then, in fact he was pimping and hooking at the same time... anything to get in.
You can't be a pimp and a prostitute too. ...At least that's what Jack White tells me.
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Old 11-06-2008, 10:11 PM   #120
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The only thing I've found remotely enjoyable about the Bush administration is Barney the dog. Every year I've looked forward to his Christmas videos. Today, Barney made his own statement:

Barney snaps under pressure, bites White House reporter | Political Insider | ajc.com

Quote:
Barney snaps under pressure, bites White House reporter

Thursday, November 6, 2008, 03:04 PM

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution

Politico is reporting that Barney the Scottie, President Bush’s canine companion, finally snapped and bit a White House reporter today.

Reporters haven’t decided whether Barney was fed up with liberal media bias, depressed by how history is likely to rate his tenure, or was simply enjoying the sense of freedom that comes to any short-timer.

The victim was Reuters TV correspondent Jon Decker, who’d bent down to pet the dog. Damage was limited to a broken skin on a finger.

Politico quotes Decker:

“As a result of the bleeding, I was treated by White House physician Dr. Richard Tubb,” Decker tells us. And, “Am now on antibiotics and will be getting a tetanus shot administered by Dr. Tubb tomorrow,” he says.

Rumors that Barney has contacted Scooter Libby for the name of a good attorney are totally unfounded.


He clearly wants to leave his own legacy.
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