The legacy of President George W. Bush - Page 32

BVS · 10-03-2011, 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2861U2

other than the simple fact that he's the guy at the top.

Well that's kinda how the presidency works...

It's called responsibility.

PhilsFan · 10-03-2011, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 2861U2

Read Doug Brinkley's "The Great Deluge" if you get a chance. I had to write a paper on it a few months ago, and it was really interesting. It makes it clear that a majority of the incompetence and fraud was with Blanco and Nagin. The federal government's mistakes were mostly with Brown and Chertoff. While he's by no means free from criticism, I question how much blame Bush himself legitimately deserves, other than the simple fact that he's the guy at the top.

Was Brown not appointed by Bush?

Caleb8844 · 10-03-2011, 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVS

Well that's kinda how the presidency works...

It's called responsibility.

The president's not all powerful; he can't intervene whenever he so chooses. There's certain protocal that must be followed, that wasn't followed, I believe.

BVS · 10-03-2011, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caleb8844

The president's not all powerful; he can't intervene whenever he so chooses. There's certain protocal that must be followed, that wasn't followed, I believe.

Well that's incorrect(a state doesn't have to declare emergency) and that's not what I was commenting on.

2861U2 · 10-03-2011, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilsFan

Was Brown not appointed by Bush?

As director, yes, but it was the previous FEMA director who enthusiastically pushed his rise through the agency. He also had a very misleading- if not patently false- resume. I would have thought all of that would have come out earlier or at least during the confirmation process, but I guess it didn't. Maybe that's on Bush, maybe not.

Caleb8844 · 10-04-2011, 10:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVS

Well that's incorrect(a state doesn't have to declare emergency) and that's not what I was commenting on.

Well according to wikipedia:

Quote:

The Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) is an agency of the United States Department of Homeland Security, initially created by Presidential Reorganization Plan No. 1 of 1978 and implemented by two Executive Orders. On 1 April 1979.[1][3] The primary purpose of FEMA is to coordinate the response to a disaster that has occurred in the United States and that overwhelms the resources of local and state authorities. The governor of the state in which the disaster occurs must declare a state of emergency and formally request from the president that FEMA and the federal government respond to the disaster.

BVS · 10-04-2011, 10:36 AM

But a president can declare a federal state of emergency, which is a vague enough definition that would have easily covered something like Katrina.

Trust me, the slow federal response was not due to him waiting on a formal request.

Caleb8844 · 10-04-2011, 10:49 AM

What exactly do you think the slow response was due to, then?

2861U2 · 10-04-2011, 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BVS

Trust me, the slow federal response was not due to him waiting on a formal request.

I disagree. Blanco's letter to Bush requesting federal aid was very badly written, lacked specifics and was sent too late to be of much help. According to Brinkley:

"If Blanco's message to Bush had been an emphatic letter or frantic telephone call, and not merely a legal form- if it had actually communicated what wasn't happening in Louisiana (i.e. evacution)- various US government agencies might have mobilized more quickly. Just as New Orleans wasn't properly communicating with Baton Rouge, Baton Rouge wasn't properly communicating with Washington DC. There was a chain of failures. 'The federal government does not have the authority to intervene in a state emergency without the request of a governor,' Bob Williams, a Washington State legislator from the district most devastated by the eruption of Mount St Helens in 1980, wrote in the WSJ, helping readers understand post-Katrina relief. 'President Bush declared an emergency prior to Katrina hitting New Orleans, so the only action needed for federal assistance was for Blanco to request the specific type of assistance she needed. She failed to send a timely request for federal aid. In addition, unlike the governors of New York, Oklahoma and California in past disasters, Blanco failed to take charge of the situation and ensure that the state emergency operation facility was in contact with FEMA.' Blanco did send a request on Saturday, two days too late. Besides late timing, it was not much of a letter and not much of a list."

BVS · 10-04-2011, 12:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Caleb8844

What exactly do you think the slow response was due to, then?

Not really caring all that much, or not paying attention.

2861, the whole nation saw what was going on, saw they needed help it didn't take us a letter to figure it out.

As your post states the state of emergency had already been declared, a leader would have turned on the TV and made a phone call.

Irvine511 · 10-04-2011, 01:06 PM

FEMA was slow and poorly coordinated even after they got involved, and Brown said he didn't know there was a crisis in the Superdome until 9/1/05, several days after the levees broke.

all that said, there are multiple fuck-ups to go around.

and FEMA has much improved itself since then. this i can vouch for.

financeguy · 10-04-2011, 06:07 PM

Rumsfeld in heated conversation with Al Jazeera - YouTube

PhilsFan · 10-04-2011, 10:39 PM

That makes me angry. What an asshat Rumsfeld is.

Irvine511 · 10-04-2011, 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PhilsFan

That makes me angry. What an asshat Rumsfeld is.

worst. defense. secretary. ever.

**Diemen** · 10-05-2011, 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Irvine511

worst. defense. secretary. ever.

This.

financeguy · 10-05-2011, 04:35 PM

But even now a US interviewer will not ask the tough questions, it takes an Al Jazeera interviewer to do so. You could see how surprised and indignant he was to find a reporter actually doing their job. Still, in his defense, at least Rumsfeld ventures onto Al Jazeera, Cheney's too chickenshit.

Canadiens1131 · 10-05-2011, 11:03 PM

British Prime Minister's Question Time would scare the shit out of most Americans, even those who supported that "YOU LIEEEEEE!" idiot. They're just not used to that level of concentrated political accountability, despite all the failings of the UK ruling class.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yy14x...eature=related

INDY500 · 04-25-2013, 08:18 PM

Quote:

From left, President Obama, George W. Bush, Bill Clinton, George H.W. Bush and Jimmy Carter attended the opening ceremony of the George W. Bush Presidential Center on Thursday in Dallas.

Appearing in an interview Thursday on NBC's "Today" show, Mrs. Bush was asked how she felt about Jeb, the former governor of Florida, seeking the presidency in 2016.

Mrs. Bush replied, quote, "We've had enough Bushes."

Amen.

BVS · 04-25-2013, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by INDY500

Amen.

Something we can all agree on.

Pearl · 04-27-2013, 11:29 AM

Bush II says he's been doing a lot of painting, 2 or 3 hours a day. Meh.

I wonder if the guy knows he screwed up big time. I hope he does. I hope his conscience nags at him.

Let him paint. He won't be able to be another Clinton or Carter, or anything the like.

04-27-2013, 11:29 AM	#640
Pearl Rock n' Roll Doggie VIP PASS Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: NYC Posts: 5,741 Local Time: 11:40 AM	Bush II says he's been doing a lot of painting, 2 or 3 hours a day. Meh. I wonder if the guy knows he screwed up big time. I hope he does. I hope his conscience nags at him. Let him paint. He won't be able to be another Clinton or Carter, or anything the like. __________________

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10-04-2011, 10:36 AM	#627
BVS Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Aug 2002 Location: between my head and heart Posts: 41,232 Local Time: 10:40 AM	But a president can declare a federal state of emergency, which is a vague enough definition that would have easily covered something like Katrina. Trust me, the slow federal response was not due to him waiting on a formal request.

10-04-2011, 10:49 AM	#628
Caleb8844 War Child Join Date: Aug 2008 Posts: 662 Local Time: 09:40 AM	What exactly do you think the slow response was due to, then?

10-04-2011, 01:06 PM	#631
Irvine511 Blue Crack Supplier Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Washington, DC Posts: 34,215 Local Time: 11:40 AM	FEMA was slow and poorly coordinated even after they got involved, and Brown said he didn't know there was a crisis in the Superdome until 9/1/05, several days after the levees broke. all that said, there are multiple fuck-ups to go around. and FEMA has much improved itself since then. this i can vouch for.

10-04-2011, 10:39 PM	#633
PhilsFan Blue Crack Addict Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: South Philadelphia Posts: 19,218 Local Time: 11:40 AM	That makes me angry. What an asshat Rumsfeld is.

10-05-2011, 04:35 PM	#636
financeguy ONE love, blood, life Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: Ireland Posts: 10,122 Local Time: 04:40 PM	But even now a US interviewer will not ask the tough questions, it takes an Al Jazeera interviewer to do so. You could see how surprised and indignant he was to find a reporter actually doing their job. Still, in his defense, at least Rumsfeld ventures onto Al Jazeera, Cheney's too chickenshit.