The legacy of President George W. Bush

[YBORCITY]

Originally Posted by Strongbow

For your information, Al Quada is not a ONE man organization. More Terrorist were caught or killed while Bush was in office than under any other US Presidential administration in US history. When it comes to killing and Capturing Terrorist, Bush is at the top of the list compared to other Presidents.



Yes, the United States did invade Iraq and remove one of worst dictators in history from power who had successfully got out from under the stiff sanctions and weapons embargo regime he had been put in at the end of the 1991 Gulf War. The removal of Saddam secured one of the worlds most vital sources of energy and prevented more of the destruction and chaos that had been caused by Saddam in his 24 years as leader of Iraq. Saddam used WMD more times than any other leader in history, on both his own people and foreign soldiers. The world no longer faces the serious threat that Saddam posed to the persian gulf.

Iraqi oil industry is still being developed and in the coming years will have a major impact on global energy prices helping to keep them lower than they would normally be do to rapidly increasing demand.

The American Army were often cheered as liberators and even the Sunni's who initially did not feel that way back then, have today formed deep partnerships ties with the US military and many would be happy for a US military presence in Iraq beyond 2011.

The actual removal of Saddam from power was low in terms of casualties. The nation building phase of the operation after the removal of Saddam was always going to prove more costly. Still, in terms of past US wars in history, especially long term nation building/counter insurgency operations, the building of Iraq has proven to be relatively low in casualties and cost compared with similar previous conflicts that the USA has been in.

Business's from around the world are now going into Iraq as the security situation continues to improve and the economy continues to rapidly grow. Iraq currently has one of the fastest growing economies on the planet.

All in all, Colin Powell, former Secretary of State James Baker, Kenneth Pollack, Michael O'Halon all agree that the removal of Saddam was a necessity and the region and world will be more secure in the future with Saddam gone.

The number of people who continue to defend the idea that the region and world would be more secure and better off with Saddam in power gets smaller every day!

The removal of Saddam is without a doubt that best thing that Bush did while President.

so you are good with OBL still out there? Maybe you didn't personally know anyone of the innocents killed that day and what their families are going through you might even hate the 9/11 widows?

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Strongbow

For your information, Al Quada is not a ONE man organization. More Terrorist were caught or killed while Bush was in office than under any other US Presidential administration in US history. When it comes to killing and Capturing Terrorist, Bush is at the top of the list compared to other Presidents.

Nice spin...

Who killed and captured the most Nazis?

[Vincent Vega]

Who recruited the most terrorists?

[corianderstem]

Originally Posted by BVS

Who killed and captured the most Nazis?

Me.

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by YBORCITYOBL

so you are good with OBL still out there?

No and I never said that either. The fact remains that Al Quada is not a one man organization and the Bush administration has done more than any other administration in history in rolling back Al Quada.

Lets not forget that Bin Ladin was a threat well before 9/11 and that the Clinton administration failed to capture or kill Bin Ladin either. The Bush administration did multiple things such as destroying Al Quada's bases in Afghannistan and removing the Taliban from power that the Clinton administration did not do.

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by BVS

Nice spin...

Who killed and captured the most Nazis?

The Soviets.

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by Vincent Vega

Who recruited the most terrorists?

Well, that would be a contest between the Taliban, Al Quada, Humas and Hezbollah. We might want to consider Iran to since they are the biggest state sponser of terrorism in the world do to their support of Humas and Hezbollah.

[YBORCITY]

Originally Posted by Strongbow

No and I never said that either. The fact remains that Al Quada is not a one man organization and the Bush administration has done more than any other administration in history in rolling back Al Quada.

Lets not forget that Bin Ladin was a threat well before 9/11 and that the Clinton administration failed to capture or kill Bin Ladin either. The Bush administration did multiple things such as destroying Al Quada's bases in Afghannistan and removing the Taliban from power that the Clinton administration did not do.

You bring up a great point that Bin Laden was a threat before 9/11, in fact so much of a threat that a couple of weeks before 9/11 W was breifed that there was actionable evidence that OBL would attack using planes as weapons but this was discounted and wasn't taken seriously.

I'm not sure of your age but the last best president that we had not named Bush or Clinton would probably levelled the mountains of Tora Bora so please don't bring up Clinton and his "shot" at Bin Laden, this happened on the country's worst most inept Administration's watch.

EPIC FAILURE

[BVS]

Originally Posted by Strongbow

Lets not forget that Bin Ladin was a threat well before 9/11 and that the Clinton administration failed to capture or kill Bin Ladin either. The Bush administration did multiple things such as destroying Al Quada's bases in Afghannistan and removing the Taliban from power that the Clinton administration did not do.

AND who helped him get into power?

Originally Posted by Strongbow

The Soviets.

FAIL

We were talking about US presidents and how ridiculous your statement was...

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by YBORCITYOBL

You bring up a great point that Bin Laden was a threat before 9/11, in fact so much of a threat that a couple of weeks before 9/11 W was breifed that there was actionable evidence that OBL would attack using planes as weapons but this was discounted and wasn't taken seriously.

I'm not sure of your age but the last best president that we had not named Bush or Clinton would probably levelled the mountains of Tora Bora so please don't bring up Clinton and his "shot" at Bin Laden, this happened on the country's worst most inept Administration's watch.

EPIC FAILURE

Clinton had 8 years to deal with Al Quada and Bin Ladin. Two US Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were blown up by Bin Ladin in August 1998 killing hundreds of people. Al Quada attacked the USS Cohl in October 2000 killing dozens of sailors. That Bin Ladin and Al Quada were determined to attack US citizens and interest worldwide including in the United States was NOTHING new! The hijacking and use of a large jet airliner was also not new as it was attempted by terrorist in France in 1994.

[Moonlit_Angel]

So why didn't Bush, when he came into power, heed the warning and catch Bin Laden and his crew ahead of time? Think about it. He could've stopped 9/11 from happening! He could've been the hero he wanted to be-he was able to do what Clinton never was able to do! And if he wasn't able to stop the tragic event, why didn't he get him right afterward? Catch the guy right away, get him his trial and punishment, he nabbed the head evil guy of 9/11, again, still a hero to the nation. He'd at least have that shining moment people could point to: "Well, I'm no fan of the Bush administration, but at least he did catch Bin Laden".

Angela

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by BVS

AND who helped him get into power?

He used Daddy's money to help in his attempts to be apart of the Afghan resistence in the 1980s. When that war was over he went back to Saudi Arabia but then had a falling out with the Saudi government over the basing of US troops in Saudi Arabia in late 1990 to respond to Saddam's invasion of Kuwait. He then went to Sudan, but was kicked out of there by 1996 and went to Afghanistan where the Taliban gave him what he wanted in furthering the development of his organization Al Quada. So the Taliban who were formed on the Afghan/Pak border in 1993-1994 and came to power in Afghanistan in 1996, played the most important role in helping Al Quada with Bin Ladin as its leader develop.

FAIL

We were talking about US presidents and how ridiculous your statement was..

FAIL

We were indeed not talking about Nazi's in this thread. Still, you suddenly asked this question and I answered it correctly.

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by Moonlit_Angel

So why didn't Bush, when he came into power, heed the warning and catch Bin Laden and his crew ahead of time? Think about it. He could've stopped 9/11 from happening! He could've been the hero he wanted to be-he was able to do what Clinton never was able to do! And if he wasn't able to stop the tragic event, why didn't he get him right afterward? Catch the guy right away, get him his trial and punishment, he nabbed the head evil guy of 9/11, again, still a hero to the nation. He'd at least have that shining moment people could point to: "Well, I'm no fan of the Bush administration, but at least he did catch Bin Laden".

Angela

The US was actively trying to catch Bin Ladin the day Bush came into office. Yes, Bush and US security at the time failed to stop 9/11 from happening, but Bill Clinton had far more opportunities during his time in office to prevent 9/11 than Bush did.

But Bush did invade Afghanistan and remove the Taliban from power as well as killing and capturing more Al Quada terrorist than any other President in history. Bush also removed Saddam from power ending the serious threat he posed to the Persian Gulf. So in respect to national and international security, Bush has been far more active and successful in securing and protecting the USA and USA interest worldwide than the previous administration.

Any informed and objective person, should recognize the multiple accomplishments of the Bush administration on US and international security.

Unfortunately, especially in FYM, ideology prevents that.

[YBORCITY]

Originally Posted by Strongbow

Clinton had 8 years to deal with Al Quada and Bin Ladin. Two US Embassies in Kenya and Tanzania were blown up by Bin Ladin in August 1998 killing hundreds of people. Al Quada attacked the USS Cohl in October 2000 killing dozens of sailors. That Bin Ladin and Al Quada were determined to attack US citizens and interest worldwide including in the United States was NOTHING new! The hijacking and use of a large jet airliner was also not new as it was attempted by terrorist in France in 1994.

But admittedly this attack did happen with Bush in office, right?

[BVS]

I almost forgot how a Sting debate works...

goodbye

[Strongbow]

Originally Posted by YBORCITYOBL

But admittedly this attack did happen with Bush in office, right?

Indeed, the 9/11 attack did. But the planning preperation for it preceeded the Bush administration. Al Quada was active before Bush even considered running for President. The lion's share of the time since Al Quada's formation up to the 9/11 attacks belongs to the Clinton administration.

[YBORCITY]

[QUOTE=Strongbow;6790657]

Any informed and objective person, should recognize the multiple accomplishments of the Bush administration on US and international security.



Stronbow, I would be seen as objective as anyone especially before the 8 year abortion that was Bush's administration I would be more inclined to be right of center but there are so many failures from this Administration that even the staunchest of Republicans have to admit that this was absolutely the worst Administration ever in fact this country will be hard pressed to get back on it's feet from this for decades to come

[Moonlit_Angel]

Originally Posted by Strongbow

The US was actively trying to catch Bin Ladin the day Bush came into office. Yes, Bush and US security at the time failed to stop 9/11 from happening, but Bill Clinton had far more opportunities during his time in office to prevent 9/11 than Bush did.

So...logic would dictate then that Bush, if he wants to try and prove that the Republicans are the ones to trust on national security instead of the Democrats, would not have disregarded that warning that came two months before 9/11, right?

That doesn't make sense. If the U.S. was actively trying to get Bin Laden from day one of Bush's presidency, then how did they fail so quickly? Bush came into power officially in January 2001. The attack was 9 months later. What happened during those 9 months to make them drop the ball?

Originally Posted by Strongbow

But Bush did invade Afghanistan and remove the Taliban from power as well as killing and capturing more Al Quada terrorist than any other President in history. Bush also removed Saddam from power ending the serious threat he posed to the Persian Gulf.

Aren't the Taliban having something of a resurgence? And we're still not sure exactly how much of a threat Saddam really was (remember, never found any WMDs...). Not to mention, didn't we befriend him at first, too? He only became a "threat" and an enemy when Bush Sr. was in office, if I understand it rightly.

Originally Posted by Strongbow

So in respect to national and international security, Bush has been far more active and successful in securing and protecting the USA and USA interest worldwide than the previous administration.

Which still doesn't explain the attempted recent terror attacks, not to mention the numerous ones that took place throughout Bush's two terms here and abroad. Those don't exactly point to increased safety and protection, but hey...

Originally Posted by Strongbow

Any informed and objective person, should recognize the multiple accomplishments of the Bush administration on US and international security.

*Thinking...thinking...trying to recall...Oh, I know-no, wait...still thinking...*

Originally Posted by Strongbow

Unfortunately, especially in FYM, ideology prevents that.

Ooh. Irony. Cool .

Angela

[Strongbow]

[QUOTE=YBORCITYOBL;6790672]

Originally Posted by Strongbow

Any informed and objective person, should recognize the multiple accomplishments of the Bush administration on US and international security.



Stronbow, I would be seen as objective as anyone especially before the 8 year abortion that was Bush's administration I would be more inclined to be right of center but there are so many failures from this Administration that even the staunchest of Republicans have to admit that this was absolutely the worst Administration ever in fact this country will be hard pressed to get back on it's feet from this for decades to come

I can list the accomplishments of every US presidential administration. Individuals unwillingness to aknowledge the accomplishments of the Bush administration is proof positive of their lack of objectivity and unfortunately, possibly a sign of ignorance as well.

[YBORCITY]

[QUOTE=Strongbow;6790717]

Originally Posted by YBORCITYOBL

I can list the accomplishments of every US presidential administration. Individuals unwillingness to aknowledge the accomplishments of the Bush administration is proof positive of their lack of objectivity and unfortunately, possibly a sign of ignorance as well.

Could be best post ever!!