The Even Gayer than the Gay thread

[deep]

also, gay marriage is officially over, it no long exist,

RIP gay marriage, same sex marriage, etc

 

[Lancemc]

I have to say, this event has really brought a lot of pedants out of the woodwork, mostly Christians, and that shit drives me nuts. But I've been pleasantly surprised by pretty much all the posts in this thread. Glad to be able to celebrate among decent people.

 

[Hewson]

Wait, there really is a gay anthem?!

Spoiler

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CS9OO0S5w2k

 

[martha]

Oh that construction worker.

Spoiler

One of the many clues I was straight.

 

[Galeongirl]

I'll say this about civil unions: I really wish a federal version were available so that an option for a binding relationship existed in purely secular terms. As someone considering making that type of commitment, I would strongly prefer it not to be mired in thousands of years of social and religious context that I find distasteful at best. I have to imagine there are gay people who feel the same way.

I don't see marriage as something christian. It's marriage, it's for the law and brings many benefits. The rest has a purely symbolic meaning.

 

[Irvine511]

Wait, there really is a gay anthem?!

this is kind of tongue-in-cheek, but also kind of true.

if i had to nominate a "gay anthem" it would be this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH3giaIzONA

why?

1. it's a perfect piece of pure pop joy
2. it's by a woman
3. it's by a woman of color -- double outsider
4. the "somebody" is ambiguous enough to be a man or a woman
5. it's about the simple but universal longing of wanting to make a connection with someone, for a night or a lifetime
6. it's effortless and not trying to be an anthem -- i think "born this way" is fine, but it's such a self-conscious attempt; here, Whit isn't trying too hard to do anything but transport you for 3 and a half minutes
7. in any gay bar or any gay club in nearly any country in the world, everyone sings along

 

[martha]

It is a great song, sung wonderfully.

 

[Galeongirl]

We have a gay anthem here, but it's a Dutch artist so you probably haven't heard of her. I don't actually know why this is the anthem, it just is. Gets played a lot during Gay Pride week. Must be them dance moves!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oTBUGSQg08A

 

[Irvine511]

some interesting articles on what is being lost as gay goes mainstream, with excerpts:

That said, I do find myself worrying about the aftermath of an affirmative decision from the justices—but my anxieties don’t concern the decline of the righteous American empire. Instead, they’re about what the solidly established right to marriage might do to queer people and to the unique community we’ve created over the past century or so. To be sure, marriage equality is, on balance, a great good for us in all kinds of ways, both material and spiritual; but it may also have, yes, some unintended consequences that aren’t so positive.

To begin, I have a sneaking suspicion that the freedom to marry may quickly become the coercion to marry, both from outside and within the community. If marriage equality becomes the law of the land, many states and businesses may decide to do away with any domestic partnership-type arrangements that came before, forcing couples who might not otherwise want to marry to get with the program. Some of these couples will find this uncomfortable for ideological reasons—many folks, especially on the radical queer end of the spectrum, still find the institution off-putting. But as the Human Rights Campaign pointed out in a recent press release imploring the business community to retain the option, others may wish to maintain domestic partnerships because getting married would effectively “out” them to their communities, putting their jobs and safety at risk in areas lacking LGBT discrimination protections. To paraphrase Foucault, visibility can often be the trickiest of traps.

There’s also the question of marriage becoming a mark of “success” or “seriousness” among queer people—a hierarchical framing that has long plagued the straight world. In the past, being single, being partnered but open, having a community of lovers, or being monogamously devoted to one person for life were all legitimate options in the queer community, mainly because there was no arbitrary endgame like marriage. Because young gays and lesbians did not grow up with marriage as a realistic “goal” (nor with the pressure of family expectations), they were able to imagine and discover many other romantic ways of being. That may well end, or at least lessen in prevalence, and from where I sit, it would be a loss.

On the activism front, it’s hard not to wonder if, in the wake of a win at the court, a certain class of queer—wealthier white gay men in particular—might not jump from the LGBTQ ship into the mainstream as quickly as possible. In my recent long-form piece on the state of gay identity, “What Was Gay?,” scholar Mary Gray described this group as being “one layer away from full citizenship,” the layer being the social respectability and wealth consolidation mechanism that marriage affords. Once these men (or mostly men) have passed this final hurdle, the thinking goes, they may be much less likely to feel any affinity with the queer folks still struggling behind them—often for sorts of inclusion connected to gender and racial justice that are much more threatening to the status quo than marriage ever was. This potential exodus would mean not only an increase in the rolls of the Log Cabin Republicans, but also a major shake-up in the financial and organizational makeup of mainline LGBTQ activism, which has long been defined, for better or for worse, by the money and efforts of such men. To be sure, a recalibration could be healthy—but it won’t be easy.

Some “unintended consequences” of marriage equality worth taking seriously.

“What do gay men have in common when they don’t have oppression?” asked Andrew Sullivan, one of the intellectual architects of the marriage movement. “I don’t know the answer to that yet.”

John Waters, the film director and patron saint of the American marginal, warned graduates to heed the shift in a recent commencement speech at the Rhode Island School of Design. “Refuse to isolate yourself. Separatism is for losers,” he said, adding, “Gay is not enough anymore.”

No one is arguing that prejudice has come close to disappearing, especially outside major American cities, as waves of hate crimes, suicides by gay teenagers and workplace discrimination attest. Far from everyone agrees that marriage rights are the apotheosis of liberation. But even many who raced to the altar say they feel loss amid the celebrations, a bittersweet sense that there was something valuable about the creativity and grit with which gay people responded to stigma and persecution.

For decades, they built sanctuaries of their own: neighborhoods and vacation retreats where they could escape after workdays in the closet; bookstores where young people could find their true selves and one another. Symbols like the rainbow flag expressed joy and collective defiance, a response to disapproving families, laws that could lead to arrests for having sex and the presumption that to be lesbian, gay, bisexual or transgender was shameful.

Lisa Kron, who wrote the book and lyrics for "Fun Home," which features a young lesbian girl. “The thing I miss is the specialness of being gay,” Ms. Kron said. Credit Walter

“The thing I miss is the specialness of being gay,” said Lisa Kron, who wrote the book and lyrics for “Fun Home,” a Broadway musical with a showstopping number sung by a young girl captivated by her first glimpse of a butch woman. “Because the traditional paths were closed, there was a consciousness to our lives, a necessary invention to the way we were going to celebrate and mark family and mark connection. That felt magical and beautiful.”

Ms. Kron is 54, and her sentiments seem to resonate among gay people of her generation and older. “People are missing a sense of community, a sense of sharing,” said Eric Marcus, 56, the author of “Making Gay History.”

“There is something wonderful about being part of an oppressed community,” Mr. Marcus said. But he warned against too much nostalgia. The most vocal gay rights activists may have celebrated being outsiders, but the vast majority of gay people just wanted “what everyone else had,” he said — the ability to fall in love, have families, pursue their careers and “just live their lives.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/27/us/scotus-same-sex-marriage-gay-culture.html

 

[deep]

this is kind of tongue-in-cheek, but also kind of true.

if i had to nominate a "gay anthem" it would be this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH3giaIzONA

why?

1. it's a perfect piece of pure pop joy
2. it's by a woman
3. it's by a woman of color -- double outsider
4. the "somebody" is ambiguous enough to be a man or a woman
5. it's about the simple but universal longing of wanting to make a connection with someone, for a night or a lifetime
6. it's effortless and not trying to be an anthem -- i think "born this way" is fine, but it's such a self-conscious attempt; here, Whit isn't trying too hard to do anything but transport you for 3 and a half minutes
7. in any gay bar or any gay club in nearly any country in the world, everyone sings along

true

also anything disco is gay

 

[deep]

this is really nothing


and everything


Nothing, because what is different, 37 states had marriage for all last week and the sky was not falling. In CA where I live Prop 8 divided the state, marital traditionalists, believed society would collapse with marriage for all. Well, we've had it for some time and life goes on as mundane as ever. So the remainder of the country will see that the many old testament plagues expected will not materialize. Wearing two sweaters to be ready for the rapture will get tiresome after awhile



This is everything, because the world of perception is the world we live in.
The marital traditionalists can no long fool themselves that their perception is the real world. They will have to awaken form their dream within a dream of their (inception) dreams.

 

[nbelcik]

Hell, take Mary Lambert's song. (She's the one singing the nice parts of the song. i.e., anything not by Macklemore.) It's gorgeous, and she's actually gay, not some dude who's like "I thought I was gay in third grade because I liked to keep my room neat" or whatever.

I might be the only Seattleite who finds Macklemore insufferable. (Although the Thrift Shop song is fun.)

I'm glad that most of my fellow millennial's that I know have turned against him because he is straight up terrible. And the fact that he has to say in the song that he isn't gay is just awful. It's a homophobic line wrapped up in a song that wants to be anti-homophobic.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

 

[Irvine511]

Honestly, I appreciated the gesture.

 

[deep]

Jesus
ok, I admit I have never heard the song of seen any videos of it

so I looked it up expecting it to be a bit, well crappy
and this is it ??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlVBg7_08n0

anybody taking a swing on this guy has lost all perspective
this guy addresses issues, many that needed to be addressed head on

hip hop gay issues, the black church and gays, etc.

the guy deserves full credit

 

[martha]

But the song sucks.

 

[nbelcik]

But the song sucks.

Bingo. Now we're getting to the real issue.


Sent from my iPhone using U2 Interference

 

[trojanchick99]

Jesus
ok, I admit I have never heard the song of seen any videos of it

so I looked it up expecting it to be a bit, well crappy
and this is it ??

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlVBg7_08n0

anybody taking a swing on this guy has lost all perspective
this guy addresses issues, many that needed to be addressed head on

hip hop gay issues, the black church and gays, etc.

the guy deserves full credit

I don't even know why I'm responding, but you honestly don't see an issue with a straight white man winning a shit ton of acclaim/awards off of a crappy hip hop song that clumsily addresses LBGT issues? Really?


Sent from my iPad using U2 Interference

 

[Irvine511]

I don't even know why I'm responding, but you honestly don't see an issue with a straight white man winning a shit ton of acclaim/awards off of a crappy hip hop song that clumsily addresses LBGT issues? Really?


Sent from my iPad using U2 Interference

Black people have been putting up with this kind of thing for decades.

 

[bono_212]

I find the song extremely sincere .

He cops so much shit for trying to speak up for issues he cares about and it pisses me off, because so often people give artists crap for NOT speaking up when they have an audience to speak to. You can't have it both ways.

 

[deep]

Black people have been putting up with this kind of thing for decades.

fight the posers
Fuck Elvis and the Beatles

 

[cobl04]

this is kind of tongue-in-cheek, but also kind of true.

if i had to nominate a "gay anthem" it would be this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH3giaIzONA

why?

1. it's a perfect piece of pure pop joy
2. it's by a woman
3. it's by a woman of color -- double outsider
4. the "somebody" is ambiguous enough to be a man or a woman
5. it's about the simple but universal longing of wanting to make a connection with someone, for a night or a lifetime
6. it's effortless and not trying to be an anthem -- i think "born this way" is fine, but it's such a self-conscious attempt; here, Whit isn't trying too hard to do anything but transport you for 3 and a half minutes
7. in any gay bar or any gay club in nearly any country in the world, everyone sings along

and not to rain on your parade but you can bet your straight allies will sing along right there with ya

some interesting articles on what is being lost as gay goes mainstream, with excerpts:

This stuff is super fucking interesting to me, so thanks for sharing.

 

[Irvine511]

The straight allies are everything right now. It's humbling and lovely to see all the FB profile pics in rainbow.

 

[Galeongirl]

I find the song extremely sincere .

He cops so much shit for trying to speak up for issues he cares about and it pisses me off, because so often people give artists crap for NOT speaking up when they have an audience to speak to. You can't have it both ways.

While it might be sincere, it really, really is a bad song lol. It just.. meanders on and there's nothing interesting going on there. I think it's great he attempted to tackle this issue, but the execution could've been better.

The straight allies are everything right now. It's humbling and lovely to see all the FB profile pics in rainbow.

Yeah, it surprised me that there were many of my straight friends who did that. In fact, I think they were the only ones to do so. Oh the irony.

 

[DaveC]

Yeah the first time I heard Same Love my thought was "that was sweet". Now when I hear the song I want to put my eardrums out because it's so boring.

Good on him for the effort, and I admire that he's got the courage to not only write a song like that but to release it as a single, but it's just musically not very interesting.

 

[LemonMelon]

It's so fucking cloying and bad.

I also wasn't concerned about my sexuality in 3rd grade, but maybe I was just a late bloomer.

 

[PhilsFan]

https://twitter.com/macklemore/status/4085475013

 

[Moser]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hlVBg7_08n0

This songs sucks. But I get the message. Which is the only thing going for this video.

It'll get shared on Facebook as a hot pro-LGBT commodity, and his marketing manager will get a nice bonus.

 

[iron yuppie]

So Irvine and Galeon and anyone else I might be forgetting, it seems like there have been a lot of people who have become vocal supporters of LGBT rights, with the Facebook rainbows and such, only in the very recent past, when it was becoming increasingly clear where the movement was going and there could no longer be any serious repercussions for espousing such a stance. How do you feel about that?

 

[Moser]

So Irvine and Galeon and anyone else I might be forgetting, it seems like there have been a lot of people who have become vocal supporters of LGBT rights, with the Facebook rainbows and such, only in the very recent past, when it was becoming increasingly clear where the movement was going and there could no longer be any serious repercussions for espousing such a stance. How do you feel about that?

It's the same thing watching Blackhawks "fans" come out of the woodwork two rounds into the playoffs.

 

[Galeongirl]

Whatever helps, helps. While I do believe that many of these people were already supportive, but in the privacy of their own homes. Which is okay to me. Though I live in a society where nobody cares if you're gay or straight, there still are people not okay with that. But they do so in the privacy of their own homes. Which is more than okay to me. The tables are turned, now hate is done in private and love can flow freely. I don't mind that it takes some people longer to get than others that gays are just human beings that deserve basic human rights. As long as they get there in the end.