Terrorism in Oslo

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Uhhm, I just want to state one fact about this tragedy.

The accussed is 32. He hasn't spoken to his father in 15 years accorrding to the below article.

Self-confessed killer Anders Behring Breivik pleads not guilty in court | Herald Sun

Now, parents of the world, if you don't want kids and want to enjoy your life, then don't have them. Not when they grow up to become mass murders and take other childrens lives whose parents actually spent time with them and nurtured them.
 
I officially find Glenn Beck disgusting. Before I found him annoying, but now he is at the bottom of my list and will stay there for a long time.
He mocked a rival morning zoo crew host's wife's miscarriage live on air, after calling her on air. He's a giant piece of shit, it's nothing new.
 
Yes, only days after she'd had the miscarriage, and only because her husband, a competitor of his, took some mild superficial swipe at a skit he had run. Of course he passes it off in that (dare I say it) very American way of blaming it all on passing demons and booze and whatnot, but then he found God and blah blah hallelujah. He's a Grade A dickhead, selling only fear and hate, and he banks on the naivety and ignorance of his audience for it to work, so he's treating them with just as much contempt.
 
TBH, political camps for kids are a trifle disturbing.

What is so disturbing about it? It's a youth organisation, and they have summer camps. With some fun time, discussion groups etc. Just like any other organisation would have. Far from brainwashing or something like that, which would indeed be disturbing.

Uhhm, I just want to state one fact about this tragedy.

The accussed is 32. He hasn't spoken to his father in 15 years accorrding to the below article.

Self-confessed killer Anders Behring Breivik pleads not guilty in court | Herald Sun

Now, parents of the world, if you don't want kids and want to enjoy your life, then don't have them. Not when they grow up to become mass murders and take other childrens lives whose parents actually spent time with them and nurtured them.

From that small piece of information how can you determine so much about the parents? Because they are living in France? That's a huge leap to take. There can be so many reasons for families breaking apart or losing or cutting contact with each other, and it's by far not always the parents' fault. This kind of stuff happens to all kinds of families.
 
^ Breivik's lawyer said today that if his client refuses to submit to psychiatric tests, then he'll quit the case; that he believes Breivik to be insane after several meetings with him.

FWIW, I've skimmed quite a bit of Breivik's "manifesto" and, while it's certainly truly extreme ideologically and his (self-)education on the topics within appears uneven to say the least, it didn't particularly read to me like the work of someone whose *intellectual* processes are fundamentally compromised. Of course there's a lot more to insanity than that (or maybe not, in Norwegian criminal law?).

As for his family, his parents divorced when he was a baby, after which his father moved to France for work. Both parents soon remarried, so he did grow up with a "father figure" and siblings in the home--for whatever little that's worth to an outcome like this. Awfully thin stuff to base even an armchair psychoanalysis on.
 
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^ Breivik's lawyer said today that if his client refuses to submit to psychiatric tests, then he'll quit the case; that he believes Breivik to be insane after several meetings with him.

FWIW, I've skimmed quite a bit of Breivik's "manifesto" and, while it's certainly truly extreme ideologically and his (self-)education on the topics within appears uneven to say the least, it didn't particularly read to me like the work of someone whose *intellectual* processes are fundamentally compromised. Of course there's a lot more to insanity than that (or maybe not, in Norwegian criminal law?).

As for his family, his parents divorced when he was a baby, after which his father moved to France for work. Both parents soon remarried, so he did grow up with a "father figure" and siblings in the home--for whatever little that's worth to an outcome like this. Awfully thin stuff to base even an armchair psychoanalysis on.


He may be perfectly sane but a sociopath or have narcissistic personality disorder.
 
True, and his lawyer did seem to be suggesting something along those lines (emphasizing Breivik is extraordinarily "cold," etc.), but doesn't calling for psychiatric tests suggest he considers Breivik a candidate for an insanity defense? In the US eligibility for that is quite narrow, I don't know how it works in Norway.
 
In an article about his manifest on spiegel.de it was said that most of his work was copy & paste from right-wing bloggers and other authors, and only very little of the text apparently was written by himself.
 
True, and his lawyer did seem to be suggesting something along those lines (emphasizing Breivik is extraordinarily "cold," etc.), but doesn't calling for psychiatric tests suggest he considers Breivik a candidate for an insanity defense? In the US eligibility for that is quite narrow, I don't know how it works in Norway.

Of what I read in Norwegian newspapers I get the impression that his Lawyer is considering a insanity defence. Even though Breivik is described as someone so delusional that he believes he's at war against Marxism and Islam it's not granted that a insanity defence will be sustained.

A life-sentence in Norway is only 21 years and each prison year is not a full year. I hope that there's something in our law-books that will make sure that Breivik will never get out of prison ever.
 
I cross my fingers for custody that will be for life. I hope Breiviks lawyer won't get through with a insanity defence. In that case it won't mean that Breivik will be let out but held in forced treatment.
 
A life-sentence in Norway is only 21 years and each prison year is not a full year. I hope that there's something in our law-books that will make sure that Breivik will never get out of prison ever.

In the U.S., a person can be convicted on multiple counts and receive a separate sentence for each. The judge generally can decide if the sentences are served concurrently or not.
I hope in Norway, he can get a life sentence for each of the 76 victims.


It hardly matters. I doubt any extra time with change this madman's heart or mind. And, I hope that if he is released after 21 years, he will be under such scrutiny that he will have no peace.
 
1 - is there any amount of money you could be paid to be this man's lawyer?
2 - if everyone the world over cries for harsher sentences for people like this why do they not listen? torture is the only suitable punishment.
3 - why are people who commit sick crimes given a chance to rehabilitate?
 
I read somewhere that while 21 years is the maximum he can be handed at once, those sentences can be extended (by five year periods.) So in 21 years, it would be possible to just keep handing him five, then another five after that, then another five after that, etc etc for the rest of his life. I have no idea what the process is, if it's just a judge decision or there's another jury/hearing thingy of some sort, or if there's precedent or whatever. But no - they don't do US style sentencing (e.g. 21 years x X killed). And I don't think that is very common outside the US? I think that's one aspect of US murder/serious crime sentencing that's quite good.
 
torture is the only suitable punishment.

You might want to think over this point.
And well, in the modern legal system someone has to be the lawyer. Like it or not, but the alternative would be much worse.
 
In an article about his manifest on spiegel.de it was said that most of his work was copy & paste from right-wing bloggers and other authors, and only very little of the text apparently was written by himself.
Some parts (primarily about bomb-making) were plagiarized from the Unabomber, and some of the sections on "cultural Marxism" were plagiarized as well (from the Norwegian anti-Muslim blogger Fjordman, and a right-wing US think tank called the Free Congress Foundation). In other places he does cut and paste at length from various right-wing/anti-Muslim bloggers, although with attribution, not trying to pass their work off as his own. You could accurately enough describe the whole thing as a compilation of other people's writings accompanied by Breivik's running commentary and some "autobiographical" material. IMO, it's not really that difficult to distinguish between what he wrote vs. what's merely cited or plagiarized (though you'll probably give yourself a headache in the process).
I hope Breiviks lawyer won't get through with a insanity defence.
In Norway does the defendant have the right to refuse an insanity defense? (Assuming he's found competent to stand trial in the first place.)
 
Ok, interesting to hear, as the article put it more like little was written by him, and most was just a compilation (though cited, unlike our former Minister of Defence and various others). That article also was about how these people now are trying to distance themselves from Breivik and his ilk.
I'm on holidays at home, and it's 1518 pages. I guess I will spare me that. ;)

I just hope for Europe in general that people who thought Wilders, Strache, Le Pen et al. are not that bad, and they are just saying what no one else isn't daring to say will wake up and see, even though of course none of them can be made responsible for what happened, they are indeed very dangerous for our society, and they are playing with exactly this kind of fire.
 
I cross my fingers for custody that will be for life. I hope Breiviks lawyer won't get through with a insanity defence. In that case it won't mean that Breivik will be let out but held in forced treatment.

Local TV news said the prosecution wants to find a way to trial him for genocide/crimes against humanity, in which case the punishment is 30 years in prison.
 
Whether he gets 21 or 30 years, he will still live the good life:

The British newspaper The Telegraph focused on Norway's 1-year-old Halden Fengsel prison as a possible place where Breivik could serve his likely sentence. With a flatscreen television for every cell, cooking classes in its "kitchen laboratory" and female prison staff to create a less aggressive atmosphere, Halden was intended to have its inmates re-enter society better than when they left it to serve time. That approach to its prison system has given Norway a 20 percent recidivism rate for the first two years after convicts are released.

Could Norway rampage suspect go to posh prison? - World Watch - CBS News
 
I just hope for Europe in general that people who thought Wilders, Strache, Le Pen et al. are not that bad, and they are just saying what no one else isn't daring to say will wake up and see, even though of course none of them can be made responsible for what happened, they are indeed very dangerous for our society, and they are playing with exactly this kind of fire.

Wouldn't vote for any of those people, but TBH I think that this attitude from the left - the subtle attempt to close down debate - is much more dangerous.
 
1 - is there any amount of money you could be paid to be this man's lawyer? ?

If I was a Norwegian criminal defense lawyer, I would do it for the normal rate - no more, no less. It would be a very interesting, albeit traumatic, case to work on, and you would learn a lot.

if everyone the world over cries for harsher sentences for people like this why do they not listen?

This is a matter for the people of Norway.

3 - why are people who commit sick crimes given a chance to rehabilitate?

Most criminal justice systems are too focused on punishment and not enough on rehabilitaton. Norway's is much better than most in this regard. I hope they do not change it.
 
Wouldn't vote for any of those people, but TBH I think that this attitude from the left - the subtle attempt to close down debate - is much more dangerous.

This subtle attempt, which by the way in most countries stems from both the left and the right, is what paved the way for these populists to get so much support for their vitriol.
 
What is so disturbing about it? It's a youth organisation, and they have summer camps. With some fun time, discussion groups etc. Just like any other organisation would have. Far from brainwashing or something like that, which would indeed be disturbing.

It's the youth wing of a political party, no?
 
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