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Old 07-28-2011, 03:13 PM   #81
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I cross my fingers for custody that will be for life. I hope Breiviks lawyer won't get through with a insanity defence. In that case it won't mean that Breivik will be let out but held in forced treatment.
Local TV news said the prosecution wants to find a way to trial him for genocide/crimes against humanity, in which case the punishment is 30 years in prison.
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Old 07-28-2011, 04:01 PM   #82
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Whether he gets 21 or 30 years, he will still live the good life:

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The British newspaper The Telegraph focused on Norway's 1-year-old Halden Fengsel prison as a possible place where Breivik could serve his likely sentence. With a flatscreen television for every cell, cooking classes in its "kitchen laboratory" and female prison staff to create a less aggressive atmosphere, Halden was intended to have its inmates re-enter society better than when they left it to serve time. That approach to its prison system has given Norway a 20 percent recidivism rate for the first two years after convicts are released.
Could Norway rampage suspect go to posh prison? - World Watch - CBS News
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Old 07-28-2011, 05:11 PM   #83
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I just hope for Europe in general that people who thought Wilders, Strache, Le Pen et al. are not that bad, and they are just saying what no one else isn't daring to say will wake up and see, even though of course none of them can be made responsible for what happened, they are indeed very dangerous for our society, and they are playing with exactly this kind of fire.
Wouldn't vote for any of those people, but TBH I think that this attitude from the left - the subtle attempt to close down debate - is much more dangerous.
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Old 07-28-2011, 05:14 PM   #84
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I think that this attitude from the left - the subtle attempt to close down debate - is much more dangerous.

I guess we need a dead body recount?
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Old 07-28-2011, 05:18 PM   #85
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1 - is there any amount of money you could be paid to be this man's lawyer? ?
If I was a Norwegian criminal defense lawyer, I would do it for the normal rate - no more, no less. It would be a very interesting, albeit traumatic, case to work on, and you would learn a lot.

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if everyone the world over cries for harsher sentences for people like this why do they not listen?
This is a matter for the people of Norway.

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3 - why are people who commit sick crimes given a chance to rehabilitate?
Most criminal justice systems are too focused on punishment and not enough on rehabilitaton. Norway's is much better than most in this regard. I hope they do not change it.
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Old 07-28-2011, 05:20 PM   #86
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I guess we need dead body recount?
What?
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Old 07-28-2011, 05:20 PM   #87
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Wouldn't vote for any of those people, but TBH I think that this attitude from the left - the subtle attempt to close down debate - is much more dangerous.
This subtle attempt, which by the way in most countries stems from both the left and the right, is what paved the way for these populists to get so much support for their vitriol.
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Old 07-28-2011, 09:23 PM   #88
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What is so disturbing about it? It's a youth organisation, and they have summer camps. With some fun time, discussion groups etc. Just like any other organisation would have. Far from brainwashing or something like that, which would indeed be disturbing.
It's the youth wing of a political party, no?
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Old 07-29-2011, 02:42 AM   #89
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It was hectic at work today.

 
I was as busy as a Norwegian florist.

 
Too soon?
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Old 07-29-2011, 02:42 AM   #90
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It was hectic at work today.

 
I was as busy as a Norwegian florist.

 
Too soon?
You suck.
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Old 07-29-2011, 02:44 AM   #91
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If I was a Norwegian criminal defense lawyer, I would do it for the normal rate - no more, no less. It would be a very interesting, albeit traumatic, case to work on, and you would learn a lot.






Most criminal justice systems are too focused on punishment and not enough on rehabilitaton. Norway's is much better than most in this regard. I hope they do not change it.
Yeah but my point is how can you live with the fact you're defending a man who did this? Law isn't my field, so I'm a bit naive, but still...

My point there is why should a man like this be given the chance to rehabilitate?
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Old 07-29-2011, 04:33 AM   #92
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Yeah but my point is how can you live with the fact you're defending a man who did this? Law isn't my field, so I'm a bit naive, but still...
'Defending him' certainly doesn't mean, or doesn't have to mean, 'trying to get him off'. It's vitally important, even in a situation like this, to make sure everything is done fairly and to the letter of the law. 'The defense' in this case might be purely about making sure they dot every 'i', cross every 't', kind of thing. Possibly more about defending the law, defending the system, than anything else. I mean, you certainly don't want something like some silly administrative cock up getting in between this guy and what he deserves.

However - that of course that might not be the case and it might get interesting. It doesn't sound like his lawyer is trying to deny or dilute what he's done thus far, but the killer has pleaded 'not guilty'. Not as a denial of his actions, he's not claiming to have not set off the bombs and shot up the island, but that those actions weren't murder, but instead justified for whatever reason. Where that goes during the trial, and if/how his defense try and argue that, we'll see.
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Old 07-29-2011, 04:40 AM   #93
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It's the youth wing of a political party, no?
Even the youth can be politically active. Don't know about Ireland, but in Germany every party has a youth organisation where they sometimes even meet to exchange ideas and discuss politics.
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Old 07-29-2011, 05:59 AM   #94
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In Sweden every political party has a youth organization, like in Norway. They are actually quite independent in their relations to the "mother-party", and it's more common that the youth organizations try to lead the mother-party in a particular direction than the opposite.
I think it's a good thing that teenagers want to change the wrongs they see and do it in a democratic way. Most of our leading politicians started their careers in these organizations, learned how the democratic process works.
I actually can't see what is disturbing about that.
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Old 07-29-2011, 06:09 AM   #95
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It's pretty common everywhere. Although, the youngest at this camp (or the youngest killed) was 14, which is fairly young? I know the 'Young Liberals' in Australia, membership is 16 and over.
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Old 07-29-2011, 08:36 AM   #96
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Whether he gets 21 or 30 years, he will still live the good life:



Could Norway rampage suspect go to posh prison? - World Watch - CBS News
Right now he's at Ila prison which is high security and not posh. He was meant to be sent to Ringeriket prison but he would have had a window view over Tyrifjord where Utøya is so that was decided against.
I haven't read anything in our newspapers about him being sent to Halden but it's hard to follow everything about this case now because there's so much being written.
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Old 07-29-2011, 08:42 AM   #97
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In Norway does the defendant have the right to refuse an insanity defense? (Assuming he's found competent to stand trial in the first place.)[/QUOTE]

I don't know, I can't remember any similar case right now and I'm no expert when it comes to our law system.
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Old 07-29-2011, 08:37 PM   #98
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Yeah but my point is how can you live with the fact you're defending a man who did this? Law isn't my field, so I'm a bit naive, but still...

My point there is why should a man like this be given the chance to rehabilitate?
The general worry that you're defending a man who very likely committed heinous acts is mitigated by the fact it should therefore be proportionally trivial for the prosecution to make its case. As Earnie said the defense attorney's probably making sure that the prosecution is just as diligent at following the law as they would be for anyone else whose guilt is less likely.

And the inverse is even more significant, IMO. Being able to say "even THIS GUY" got fair treatment under the law is a powerful moral bludgeon for ensuring due process for "ordinary" citizens accused of crimes.
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Old 07-29-2011, 09:20 PM   #99
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Jeez, I'm not suggesting there's anything strange about youth wings of political parties per se - it's just the idea of summer camp run by a political party and devoted, at least in part, to political discussions - that's the thing I find vaguely creepy. Not a lot - just vaguely.
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Old 07-29-2011, 10:01 PM   #100
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for the record I couldn't think of anything I'd rather do less than go away camping and talk about politics.
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