Terrorism in Oslo

[BVS]

He's a vile vile soul.

[canedge]

Uhhm, I just want to state one fact about this tragedy.

The accussed is 32. He hasn't spoken to his father in 15 years accorrding to the below article.

Self-confessed killer Anders Behring Breivik pleads not guilty in court | Herald Sun

Now, parents of the world, if you don't want kids and want to enjoy your life, then don't have them. Not when they grow up to become mass murders and take other childrens lives whose parents actually spent time with them and nurtured them.

[Canadiens1131]

Originally Posted by Pearl

I officially find Glenn Beck disgusting. Before I found him annoying, but now he is at the bottom of my list and will stay there for a long time.

He mocked a rival morning zoo crew host's wife's miscarriage live on air, after calling her on air. He's a giant piece of shit, it's nothing new.

[Earnie Shavers]

Originally Posted by Headache in a Suitcase

i wasn't aware glenn beck posted on interference.

He pretty much exclusively posts in PLEBA.

Obviously I need to pay more attention when starting with quoting someone and then just lazily changing it.

[maycocksean]

Originally Posted by Canadiens1131

He mocked a rival morning zoo crew host's wife's miscarriage live on air, after calling her on air. He's a giant piece of shit, it's nothing new.

This can't be true. . .

Really?

That's a whole new level of sick.

[Earnie Shavers]

Yes, only days after she'd had the miscarriage, and only because her husband, a competitor of his, took some mild superficial swipe at a skit he had run. Of course he passes it off in that (dare I say it) very American way of blaming it all on passing demons and booze and whatnot, but then he found God and blah blah hallelujah. He's a Grade A dickhead, selling only fear and hate, and he banks on the naivety and ignorance of his audience for it to work, so he's treating them with just as much contempt.

[Vincent Vega]

Originally Posted by financeguy

TBH, political camps for kids are a trifle disturbing.

What is so disturbing about it? It's a youth organisation, and they have summer camps. With some fun time, discussion groups etc. Just like any other organisation would have. Far from brainwashing or something like that, which would indeed be disturbing.

Originally Posted by canedge

Uhhm, I just want to state one fact about this tragedy.

The accussed is 32. He hasn't spoken to his father in 15 years accorrding to the below article.

Self-confessed killer Anders Behring Breivik pleads not guilty in court | Herald Sun

Now, parents of the world, if you don't want kids and want to enjoy your life, then don't have them. Not when they grow up to become mass murders and take other childrens lives whose parents actually spent time with them and nurtured them.

From that small piece of information how can you determine so much about the parents? Because they are living in France? That's a huge leap to take. There can be so many reasons for families breaking apart or losing or cutting contact with each other, and it's by far not always the parents' fault. This kind of stuff happens to all kinds of families.

[corianderstem]

Maybe his dad hasn't talked to him in 15 years because he realized his son was psychotic.

[yolland]

^ Breivik's lawyer said today that if his client refuses to submit to psychiatric tests, then he'll quit the case; that he believes Breivik to be insane after several meetings with him.

FWIW, I've skimmed quite a bit of Breivik's "manifesto" and, while it's certainly truly extreme ideologically and his (self-)education on the topics within appears uneven to say the least, it didn't particularly read to me like the work of someone whose *intellectual* processes are fundamentally compromised. Of course there's a lot more to insanity than that (or maybe not, in Norwegian criminal law?).

As for his family, his parents divorced when he was a baby, after which his father moved to France for work. Both parents soon remarried, so he did grow up with a "father figure" and siblings in the home--for whatever little that's worth to an outcome like this. Awfully thin stuff to base even an armchair psychoanalysis on.

[financeguy]

Originally Posted by yolland

^ Breivik's lawyer said today that if his client refuses to submit to psychiatric tests, then he'll quit the case; that he believes Breivik to be insane after several meetings with him.

FWIW, I've skimmed quite a bit of Breivik's "manifesto" and, while it's certainly truly extreme ideologically and his (self-)education on the topics within appears uneven to say the least, it didn't particularly read to me like the work of someone whose *intellectual* processes are fundamentally compromised. Of course there's a lot more to insanity than that (or maybe not, in Norwegian criminal law?).

As for his family, his parents divorced when he was a baby, after which his father moved to France for work. Both parents soon remarried, so he did grow up with a "father figure" and siblings in the home--for whatever little that's worth to an outcome like this. Awfully thin stuff to base even an armchair psychoanalysis on.

He may be perfectly sane but a sociopath or have narcissistic personality disorder.

[yolland]

True, and his lawyer did seem to be suggesting something along those lines (emphasizing Breivik is extraordinarily "cold," etc.), but doesn't calling for psychiatric tests suggest he considers Breivik a candidate for an insanity defense? In the US eligibility for that is quite narrow, I don't know how it works in Norway.

[Vincent Vega]

In an article about his manifest on spiegel.de it was said that most of his work was copy & paste from right-wing bloggers and other authors, and only very little of the text apparently was written by himself.

[AGirlLikeTheSea]

Originally Posted by yolland

True, and his lawyer did seem to be suggesting something along those lines (emphasizing Breivik is extraordinarily "cold," etc.), but doesn't calling for psychiatric tests suggest he considers Breivik a candidate for an insanity defense? In the US eligibility for that is quite narrow, I don't know how it works in Norway.

Of what I read in Norwegian newspapers I get the impression that his Lawyer is considering a insanity defence. Even though Breivik is described as someone so delusional that he believes he's at war against Marxism and Islam it's not granted that a insanity defence will be sustained.

A life-sentence in Norway is only 21 years and each prison year is not a full year. I hope that there's something in our law-books that will make sure that Breivik will never get out of prison ever.

[AGirlLikeTheSea]

I cross my fingers for custody that will be for life. I hope Breiviks lawyer won't get through with a insanity defence. In that case it won't mean that Breivik will be let out but held in forced treatment.

[kramwest1]

Originally Posted by AGirlLikeTheSea

A life-sentence in Norway is only 21 years and each prison year is not a full year. I hope that there's something in our law-books that will make sure that Breivik will never get out of prison ever.

In the U.S., a person can be convicted on multiple counts and receive a separate sentence for each. The judge generally can decide if the sentences are served concurrently or not.
I hope in Norway, he can get a life sentence for each of the 76 victims.


It hardly matters. I doubt any extra time with change this madman's heart or mind. And, I hope that if he is released after 21 years, he will be under such scrutiny that he will have no peace.

[cobl04]

1 - is there any amount of money you could be paid to be this man's lawyer?
2 - if everyone the world over cries for harsher sentences for people like this why do they not listen? torture is the only suitable punishment.
3 - why are people who commit sick crimes given a chance to rehabilitate?

[Earnie Shavers]

I read somewhere that while 21 years is the maximum he can be handed at once, those sentences can be extended (by five year periods.) So in 21 years, it would be possible to just keep handing him five, then another five after that, then another five after that, etc etc for the rest of his life. I have no idea what the process is, if it's just a judge decision or there's another jury/hearing thingy of some sort, or if there's precedent or whatever. But no - they don't do US style sentencing (e.g. 21 years x X killed). And I don't think that is very common outside the US? I think that's one aspect of US murder/serious crime sentencing that's quite good.

[Vincent Vega]

Originally Posted by cobl04

torture is the only suitable punishment.

You might want to think over this point.
And well, in the modern legal system someone has to be the lawyer. Like it or not, but the alternative would be much worse.

[yolland]

Originally Posted by Vincent Vega

In an article about his manifest on spiegel.de it was said that most of his work was copy & paste from right-wing bloggers and other authors, and only very little of the text apparently was written by himself.

Some parts (primarily about bomb-making) were plagiarized from the Unabomber, and some of the sections on "cultural Marxism" were plagiarized as well (from the Norwegian anti-Muslim blogger Fjordman, and a right-wing US think tank called the Free Congress Foundation). In other places he does cut and paste at length from various right-wing/anti-Muslim bloggers, although with attribution, not trying to pass their work off as his own. You could accurately enough describe the whole thing as a compilation of other people's writings accompanied by Breivik's running commentary and some "autobiographical" material. IMO, it's not really that difficult to distinguish between what he wrote vs. what's merely cited or plagiarized (though you'll probably give yourself a headache in the process).

Originally Posted by AGirlLikeTheSea

I hope Breiviks lawyer won't get through with a insanity defence.

In Norway does the defendant have the right to refuse an insanity defense? (Assuming he's found competent to stand trial in the first place.)

[Vincent Vega]

Ok, interesting to hear, as the article put it more like little was written by him, and most was just a compilation (though cited, unlike our former Minister of Defence and various others). That article also was about how these people now are trying to distance themselves from Breivik and his ilk.
I'm on holidays at home, and it's 1518 pages. I guess I will spare me that.

I just hope for Europe in general that people who thought Wilders, Strache, Le Pen et al. are not that bad, and they are just saying what no one else isn't daring to say will wake up and see, even though of course none of them can be made responsible for what happened, they are indeed very dangerous for our society, and they are playing with exactly this kind of fire.