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Old 06-15-2012, 06:51 PM   #41
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It's much harder to educate 310m Americans than 10m Swedes. It just is. Compare the US to the EU, sure, but compare New Zealand to Connecticut.

There are myriad other cultural issues, but yes, size does matter.
Difficulty may be a factor but it's not impossible or implausible. Quality education in the US (education on par with the top ten math countries) is entirely possible but it would take reform and effort. People seem to act as though it's impossible and we should just accept our rank because those countries are smaller and I just don't view that as an excuse. It would require careful state by state planning to get each state to a high quality education but it is possible and I fail to see any valid reason for why we aren't doing that yet.

It would also appear that Australia has us beat in Math/Science.
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Old 06-15-2012, 06:55 PM   #42
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Understanding complexity is not resignation.
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:01 PM   #43
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Understanding complexity is not resignation.
When bringing up complexity/level of difficulty as a reason for why a country currently isn't ranking high enough, that does not excuse the fact that we have had more than enough time to reform out education. I would rather discuss the methods of accomplishing something, not how hard it is to accomplish. I understand the complexities and see past them. They are not and should never be a deterrent.
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Old 06-15-2012, 07:36 PM   #44
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oooh, in case anyone is interested, I found a video of the speech:



I like it a lot better in full.
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:19 PM   #45
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Originally Posted by Irvine511 View Post
It's much harder to educate 310m Americans than 10m Swedes. It just is. Compare the US to the EU, sure, but compare New Zealand to Connecticut.

There are myriad other cultural issues, but yes, size does matter. Like, are you looking at populations of states or just number of states?
Funny how you never raised this "size matters" argument in the healthcare debate. "It's much harder to educate 310m Americans than 10m Swedes" but providing single-payer universal health care for 310m Americans would never be an administrative, bureaucratic, fiscal nightmare.
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:29 PM   #46
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Not sure if that first graph was adjusted for inflation, but the slope should be going the other way if it hasn't been. Not so bad that math and reading scores have remained constant when you take that into account
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Old 06-15-2012, 09:50 PM   #47
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I'm not sure size does really matter in either case, so much as diversity. In that case, comparing the US to, say, Singapore is flawed, but not so much the US to the UK. In my experience with Texas, school performance tends to pretty directly correlate with parental economic status. Even with a well-funded school system, children of poorer parents are less likely to emotionally experience the fruits of education, but to resent the whole system... inequality is a big problem with schools. My state has some incredible public schools in suburbia (I was lucky enough to attend one), and many, many awful ones in urban and rural areas. It's pretty sad.
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:33 PM   #48
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Not sure if that first graph was adjusted for inflation, but the slope should be going the other way if it hasn't been. Not so bad that math and reading scores have remained constant when you take that into account
There are a couple problems with the graphic but it was the only decent infographic I could find regarding drop-outs and stuff. There was a study (that I'll have to spend some time searching for) done that showed there is no correlation between money spent and quality of education so I wouldn't worry too much about that supposed statistic, inflation or not. We live in a really nice area with 3 of the best schools in the country, and the highest property taxes (property taxes go towards schooling) are $6,000 in the school district (aka school cost $6,000 max). Meanwhile, in my hometown with a terrible high school the taxes were $12,000. That's anecdotal but I don't really consider money spent per student.
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Old 06-15-2012, 11:45 PM   #49
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Funny how you never raised this "size matters" argument in the healthcare debate. "It's much harder to educate 310m Americans than 10m Swedes" but providing single-payer universal health care for 310m Americans would never be an administrative, bureaucratic, fiscal nightmare.


But 310m Americans are guaranteed 12 years of public education.

I know you think poor people should sacrifice even more and they are responsible for your own personal crushing debt burden that you as a middle class white person are so oppressed by. Perhaps we should cut this too?
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