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Old 01-19-2013, 02:16 AM   #41
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Originally Posted by Danny Boy View Post
Um, no, imagining someone naked and having to face them after you've watched them in a pornographic film are two very different things.
They're really not, or at least, not in my experience (and yes I have experience with this).

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I think you're missing the point. This isn't about if the children know what porn is, children in middle school regardless of how much they think they know are just now going through that developmental stage. So even the most "experienced" of middle schoolers are confused about sex, and porn is not real sex so to think that middle school age children wouldn't be affected by this is quite delusional in itself.
They really won't be affected by it all that much. For one, had they not been looking at porn on their own in the first place they never would have found her, and for another, just how traumatized do you honestly think they are? Porn is real sex, like it or not. It is two people engaging in intercourse on video camera. Is a lot of porn unrealistic? Sure. However I don't remember ever watching it and going "oh so this is what sex is? now I'm confused!" I distinctly remember my girlfriends and I giggling over porn back in 7th grade, watching some rather graphic stuff (very off-course, definitely not vanilla) and laughing at how weird that was and how if that was sex, we sure never wanted to do that.

Sorry but it's nothing new to kids. And knowing the teacher doesn't really make a difference. Can it cause some petty drama as kids make fun of the teacher? Yeah. But the kids who found this video in the first place were intentionally looking for it so I think their minds were already there and it thus doesn't change a thing in the classroom. You'd be surprised how quickly people can disassociate something.

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And btw I wasn't just talking about "engaging in oral sex".
Still doesn't change anything.

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Teachers aren't supposed to be role models? In what world?
When you get a little older and have a child yourself, niece, godson, etc. then tell me how EASY that conversation would be.
My father HAD that conversation with me. Was it awkward? Sure, but he was completely well poised about it. I have a 1st cousin whom, yes, I inform about things. I also have had the privilege of teaching a lesson in both a 5th grade sexual education classroom as well as a 9th grade special ed sex ed classroom answering a plethora of awkward questions. Bottom line I've had similar conversations with a lot of kids, and not just the sex talk, but talking about rumors in school, leaked naked photos, porn in general, etc.

If the parents are so uptight they think it's actually difficult, that's their problem. My parents never had an issue with it, nor did my nanny or my foster parents. It's far past the time that American parents actually start trying to take sex head on and talk about it like the natural thing it is rather than stigmatizing it. We shouldn't even be having this conversation in the 21st century. Kids are not so stupid that they can't comprehend their teacher having sex for money, and a parent should be able to explain things without getting emotional about it. There is nothing wrong with having sex for money. Everything "wrong" with it has been created by society and the fact that we're treating it like it's some sort of horrific thing is ridiculous.

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So now she's a role model? I thought teachers weren't role models.
Teachers aren't supposed to be role models, they're supposed to teach. Stating that she is trying to be a good "role model" now does not mean she actually is a role model or that I think teachers should be/are role models. It merely is a different way of saying that the teacher is making a conscious effort to change her way of life and move on. Teaching a 40-50 minute on one subject with kids does not mean you are their role model or they are trying to emulate you. Six hours with a teacher in elementary school? Yes. But not in middle school. The relationship is far more removed.

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Once again you are completely missing the point if you think this is about if the child knows about porn or not.
I think that's what it boils down to though you could technically include other factors. A kid seeing another human being in the act, teacher or not, is not that traumatizing an experience. Even if they are surprised to find out that porn stars are real people, why would that make a difference? Good kids who stumbled across it on accident may feel embarrassed and try to forget about it, bad kids might go and watch it repeatedly but that's a parenting issue, and has nothing to do with the teacher.

Take some responsibility and watch what your kids are doing on the internet, for heaven's sake. Obviously you can't monitor them all the time but I find it hard to believe that there was nothing parents could do to stop eleven and twelve year old kids from watching pornography.

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BVS, did you not read her next post? Apparently that's somehow not a contradiction.
Read my above statement.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:18 AM   #42
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So now she's a role model? I thought teachers weren't role models.
Children are idiots.

Until a few years later, at which point they stop being idiots and start being little adults basically.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:19 AM   #43
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@LadyFreckles You are wrong, that's all I can say. Teachers are role models. Whether you want them to be or whether they want to be or not. We're taught to learn from our teachers. Whether on purpose or not, I'm going to learn about how I live my life from the people I'm meant to respect.

And seriously, I get bored and Google the names of people I know ALLLLLL the time. I did it for every one of my teachers in middle, junior and high school. Guess what I would've found had one of my teachers been in porn? And I wouldn't have been looking for it.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:28 AM   #44
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@LadyFreckles You are wrong, that's all I can say. Teachers are role models. Whether you want them to be or whether they want to be or not. We're taught to learn from our teachers. Whether on purpose or not, I'm going to learn about how I live my life from the people I'm meant to respect.

And seriously, I get bored and Google the names of people I know ALLLLLL the time. I did it for every one of my teachers in middle, junior and high school. Guess what I would've found had one of my teachers been in porn? And I wouldn't have been looking for it.
That's why many porn stars go under a pseudonym. When people get found it's not because their name was searched. It's because someone recognized them in a video. Let's just say I know more than one person who has gotten "busted" this way.

And again, while I may have admired a teacher or two I never once tried to emulate them in middle school. The kids who did were in the few (I can think of two). But let's say middle school teacher's are role models--let's entertain that idea. What defines a good role model? How exactly is making an erotic film wrong? I do not believe there are any implications of her character based on these films or her actions. I also do not believe that the school has a right to fire her over not mentioning that job.

And those aren't rhetorical questions. I seriously wonder how you can classify erotic art (however weird and distasteful you consider the art to be) to be inherently bad or make someone a bad role model. If a girl grows up to make erotic films and enjoys it it'll be because of a lot more than some teacher happening to do it.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:33 AM   #45
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Erotic art = erotic films = porn?

I've seen/watched all of the above and disagree with this line of thought. I'm sorry, a greyscale of my teacher's ass is radically different from watching her in porn. There is a gradient here.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:38 AM   #46
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This "porn star" didn't. She used her real name (Or at least that's the impression this thread has given me). There were a lot of things that, perhaps, had she done differently, would have allowed her to keep her job.

You seem to know a lot of people in the porn industry, btw...

How do you know the inner machinations of what other people you went to school did? Being a role model is not an active thing. I didn't actively seek out emulating my teachers, but I learned from them regardless.

And a school does have the right to fire someone if they weren't honest about their job history, I'm pretty sure. Not a lawyer, obviously, so I'm not 100% on that. Firing is discretionary to a point.

Also, also: Big Sausage Pizza definitely = Erotic art.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:40 AM   #47
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Erotic art = erotic films = porn?

I've seen/watched all of the above and disagree with this line of thought. I'm sorry, a greyscale of my teacher's ass is radically different from watching her in porn. There is a gradient here.
Not all erotic art is pornographic in nature, but pornographic things can be considered art. I never said they were all the same thing. I just referred to porn as erotic art. Porn is explicit, but explicit things can be very artistic! Not all artistic depictions of the human body are explicit.


And to continue, allow me to recede and agree with all of you that she is a role model. She is paid in tax dollars to be a "good role model" for her students. The implications of this? Our tax dollars are now funding some government mandated idea of what is sexually correct behavior in our teachers and children. You might claim that's twisting it, but if tax dollars are paying for it, it's now a standard that's been made. Sexual activity, in exchange for money or just for the sake of making a film, is not something that should be considered in whether or not someone is a role model. In reality all we're saying is that she can do what she wants as long as there's no "evidence" of it which is the same as saying it's wrong.

Ruining a person's career--a person who has a passion for teaching and educating children--over a mistake they made 6-8 years ago is just ridiculous. Her activities serve no implications for her teaching abilities and any issues caused in the classroom are on the parents, not the students. I look forward to the day and age when we stop firing people for being socially unacceptable.

Edit for clarification: obviously, in this scenario, it's different from a business wanting to portray a certain image. In this case the "business" is the government and the government has no business deciding what sort of sexual morality they want to portray to our kids. Cold hard facts (i.e. protection and diseases, setting boundaries) and nothing else.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:46 AM   #48
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This "porn star" didn't. She used her real name. There were a lot of things that, perhaps, had she done differently, would have allowed her to keep her job.

You seem to know a lot of people in the porn industry, btw...

How do you know the inner machinations of what other people you went to school did? Being a role model is not an active thing. I didn't actively seek out emulating my teachers, but I learned from them regardless.

And a school does have the right to fire someone if they weren't honest about their job history, I'm pretty sure. Not a lawyer, obviously, so I'm not 100% on that. Firing is discretionary to a point.

Also, also: Big Sausage Pizza definitely = Erotic art.
So I can get fired by my current job because I didn't list job history that was unrelated to the job? That does not sound very fair at all. My prior job history has no effect or consequence to my current and is irrelevant. I don't list it because I did a lot of seasonal 3-6 month jobs, all in a completely different field that employers don't care about, that would clutter my resume. Unless her employer asked her "hey were you a porn star" and she said no, I don't classify that as lying. I classify that as her keeping her personal business on the wraps.

Teachers are supposed to teach us school subjects. In middle school and high school you get one teacher per subject (except for certain private schools). Did I learn from my teachers in regards to those subjects? Yes. Did I learn about being a human being from them? No, not really. I didn't even know them well enough to know whether or not I wanted to emulate them. Even after a full year. The only influence teachers had was that some were cool and fun while others were overbearing jerks. A teacher's personal and moral decisions should not come up in a classroom. That's not what we're paying them to do.

In a situation where parents are not there and there is a moral dilemma, for example, when 9/11 was happening, then I would trust teachers in that scenario to give a moral standing. But I don't think there will be any sexual situations in which a teacher will be teaching kids about sexual morality. And personal past perceived mistakes do not negate everything a teacher has to say on the matter.
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Old 01-19-2013, 02:48 AM   #49
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Wow...Ok. Just...not even worth continuing. Teachers aren't worth my time. I should never have gotten close with them, because We only pay them to teach.
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:04 AM   #50
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Not all erotic art is pornographic in nature, but pornographic things can be considered art. I never said they were all the same thing. I just referred to porn as erotic art. Porn is explicit, but explicit things can be very artistic! Not all artistic depictions of the human body are explicit.
This is absolutely true, it just doesn't apply to Stacy Halaxxx because Naughty Nurses 56 cannot be defined as art, so there's no reason to use a word like "erotic" to muddy the term.

What I don't understand is why she didn't bother with a pseudonym. Teaching middle school doesn't pay well and I don't think any less of her for adding an extra stream to her shallow economic river. But she must have had at least been working towards a degree when she started...it wasn't that long ago...why not consider the professional ramifications of porn? I don't want her teaching my kids because she's clearly none too bright.
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:07 AM   #51
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Which was kind of what the judges said as well:

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In upholding her dismissal, the panel discounted Halas' arguments that she appeared in porn scenes because she was left with a crushing debt of $100,000 after a split with her fiance.
The panel instead found she could have opted for bankruptcy or a modification of her student loans, and said she was a poor "role model" for students and had been dishonest with the school district during its investigation.
"Respondent's pornographic scenes may demonstrate for viewers a lack of respect for herself and may send a message that she endorses the degradation of women and deviant sexual behavior," the panel said in its decision.
California teacher fired for porn films loses appeal to keep job | Reuters


Boobaholics Annonymous 2 might be my favorite name ever.
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:09 AM   #52
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"She obviously is not a sophisticated woman." - her lawyer
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:09 AM   #53
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That's got to be a typo on Reuters' part.
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:14 AM   #54
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My apologies.

After some considerable research into the matter, she apparently went by Tiffany Six in both Big Sausage Pizza and Boobaholics Anonymous 2. It remains to be seen whether her more esoteric work features a similar pseudonym. A sizable grant will be required to further research this pertinent topic.
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Old 01-19-2013, 03:45 AM   #55
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Originally Posted by ladyfreckles View Post
Ruining a person's career--a person who has a passion for teaching and educating children--over a mistake they made 6-8 years ago is just ridiculous.


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"Respondent's pornographic scenes may demonstrate for viewers a lack of respect for herself and may send a message that she endorses the degradation of women and deviant sexual behavior."
What the fuck is this?
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Old 01-19-2013, 05:05 AM   #56
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This is absolutely true, it just doesn't apply to Stacy Halaxxx because Naughty Nurses 56 cannot be defined as art, so there's no reason to use a word like "erotic" to muddy the term.

What I don't understand is why she didn't bother with a pseudonym. Teaching middle school doesn't pay well and I don't think any less of her for adding an extra stream to her shallow economic river. But she must have had at least been working towards a degree when she started...it wasn't that long ago...why not consider the professional ramifications of porn? I don't want her teaching my kids because she's clearly none too bright.
According to Gawker and several other news sites, she DID have a pseudonym: Tiffany Six.

However in explaining the scenario behind stupid decisions, people who are desperate and depressed can do really dumb things. They may feel as though there is no hope for a future and throw everything away. In the moment she probably wasn't thinking "great I'm going to do this and be a teacher" it was more along the lines of "I am going to be homeless and my boyfriend left me what do I do". Not excusing that line of thinking, but rather explaining it. There's not much that's logical about depression and I've watched very intelligent individuals make impulsive, irrational and dumb decisions when they were depressed.

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Originally Posted by Gawker
Upon the eventual discovery of her outré moonlighting gig, Halas initially denied the allegations before being forced to come clean. She insisted that she hadn't done porn in over six years, and had only entered the industry because she was deep in debt with over $60,000 in student loans.
-1 point for me for saying she didn't lie, that's totally lying.

But yeah, debt like that can be debilitating for a person who is afraid of not being able to pay up.
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Old 01-19-2013, 06:49 AM   #57
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To me, teachers should be role models based on how they handle the classroom environment and how they educate/relate to their students. Possibly excluding criminal behaviour, I do not see how actions in the past limit someone's ability to be a role model to students today - and, if anything, they can be a positive role model for demonstrating a person's ability to move on from decisions subsequently regretted. There is a positive way to spin this as well as a negative one, and I think it's a sad commentary on those people who sought to fire this woman that they took the negative one, as if to ram home the message to kids that one decision (even if it's legal, even if it's made out of desperation) can have negative ramifications on your career.

If we're going to dredge up past behaviour - especially regretted decisions - to write off role models, then we might as well sack most teachers. I guess I'll never make an appropriate teacher because I floored a guy at high school. Especially since that actually was abhorrent behaviour unlike pornography, which is legal and depicts a perfectly normal (if simulated) aspect of almost every human life ever. People need to stop getting so up-in-arms about pornography. Seriously. Violence, bigotry, discrimination - those are repugnant and worth moral outrage; nudity and sex are not repugnant and do not justify outrage.
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:35 AM   #58
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I guess I'll never make an appropriate teacher because I floored a guy at high school.
elaborate pls
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Old 01-19-2013, 07:53 AM   #59
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He was just trying to protect Larry from some hallway toughs.
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Old 01-19-2013, 11:03 AM   #60
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Teachers are role models. Actually I think we are all role models to everyone to some degree. Whether we are working with someone or taking a gym class with someone, there could be someone's attitude or personality that could be admirable and there would be one person who would want to emulate that.

A middle grade student may spend 45 - 60 minutes a day with one subject teacher, but that's 5 days a week for ten months. And usually the teacher-student relationship goes beyond simply learning math, English, science, etc. If the teacher is personal and strong enough, you might have classroom discussions about things other than the subject. I remember in 6th grade science, one kid actually asked the teacher after class something about puberty even though the curriculum didn't touch on human biology then. Supposedly he was concerned about something he learned in sex-ed the day earlier.

So yes, a teacher is a role model. They are not impersonal objects robotically teaching a subject.

This teacher did make a poor decision, and I agree that she probably wasn't thinking too clearly when she did it. Its true what ladyfreckles said about depressed and desperate people making irrational decisions because it can happen when someone feels like the world is ending.

Her situation is an iffy one. I just think the school board should've done something like move her someplace else where her porn past wouldn't be an issue with her students. Because really, having a teacher who once did porn takes on a whole new meaning to "hot for teacher". The kids - especially the boys - would be teasing her and even harassing her because of the notion that someone who did porn will have sex with anyone and anywhere.

She made a mistake and it is sad that she is paying for it like this. Perhaps she should've chosen a field where her past wouldn't have caused any problems. And the school board should've investigated before hiring her. Like I said before, isn't what HR does when they have a candidate? They Google their name and take it from there. That's why there are so many warnings about posting drunk or raunchy photos on Facebook and elsewhere.
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