SPLIT--> Women in the Military

[deep]

In Israel women are also required to serve along with young men. ( the orthodox religions exemption is another story)

In the US all young men are required to sign up for the selected services

Male U.S. citizens, and male aliens living in the U.S., who are 18 through 25, are required to register with Selective Service. It's important to know that even though he is registered, a man will not automatically be inducted into the military. In a crisis requiring a draft, men would be called in sequence determined by random lottery number and year of birth. Then, they would be examined for mental, physical and moral fitness by the military before being deferred or exempted from military service or inducted into the Armed Forces.
http://www.sss.gov/fswho.htm

in a non-sexist society, should women also be required to register?



Pearl, Moonlit would you want to have been required to sign up when you turned 18 and possibly have been drafted?

 

[Pearl]

in a non-sexist society, should women also be required to register?



Pearl, Moonlit would you want to have been required to sign up when you turned 18 and possibly have been drafted?

I don't see why I should be against being drafted just because I am a woman. It's not like once women can be drafted I would suddenly get all fragile and helpless and refuse to fight. I think other women will agree.

 

[deep]

I don't really have any strong opinions on this

but for people that do, these are the questions that can come up.

 

[Pearl]

I don't really have any strong opinions on this

but for people that do, these are the questions that can come up.

True, and I will say the same thing to them.

And if they say women don't have the stomach for war, they should do some historical research because there have been some ancient societies that allowed women to be warriors. The ancient Celts come to mind.

 

[Jive Turkey]

I would argue that on average men are much more physically capable than women, thus a 'non sexist' draft would result in an overall less capable service. It's completely hypothetical, but I would agree with women being exempt from a draft
(Or perhaps the selection requirements would naturally weed them out, leading to an inequity in numbers anyway)

 

[Caleb8844]

I would argue that on average men are much more physically capable than women, thus a 'non sexist' draft would result in an overall less capable service. It's completely hypothetical, but I would agree with women being exempt from a draft
(Or perhaps the selection requirements would naturally weed them out, leading to an inequity in numbers anyway)

A year ago, I had to write a paper on the topic, and I ended up using nearly this exact argument.

 

[BVS]

I think you could probably argue that a draft in general produces a less capable military.

 

[Jive Turkey]

No argument there. I'm just saying an 'equal opportunity' draft would compound that problem

 

[Jive Turkey]

A year ago, I had to write a paper on the topic, and I ended up using nearly this exact argument.

 

[indra]

I was always happy when I was of draftable age that the possibility of being forced to fight in a war (or police action or anything the powers that be don't want to call war but really is) was not something I ever had to think about. I would have made a horrible soldier anyway....

 

[deep]

A year ago, I had to write a paper on the topic, and I ended up using nearly this exact argument.

I hope you included FYM in your research sources.

 

[Caleb8844]

Cited the shit out of this place.

 

[Pearl]

Cited the shit out of this place.

 

[Moonlit_Angel]

Pearl, Moonlit would you want to have been required to sign up when you turned 18 and possibly have been drafted?

I actually already answered that in my last post:

But while I fully support women who want to be on the fighting lines having the right and opportunity to do so, I sure as hell wouldn't want to be to be part of that, by force or by choice, for a whole host of reasons.

Like indra, I think I would've made a crap soldier and I probably wouldn't even wind up being recruited anyway because I doubt I'd pass all the physical training and such as it is. I'm glad there's no draft and I don't have to worry about such a potential situation. I have no desire to find myself in a war zone.

But I just think it's kind of strange that, if our government is asking the country at large to stand up and defend itself and make a sacrifice and all that jazz, that it would then turn around and deny certain people a spot simply because they're a woman, or they're gay (or, in the old days, they were black), or whatever.

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

I know personally about a dozen female Marines in my company. and none of them think this is a good thing. I value their opinion more than some feminist congresswoman. That being said, Im not against overturning the ban per say, I think that there were many jobs like artillery and armor that they are more than capable of performing, but anything infantry related is out of the question. I have yet to meet a single female that would be able to do what it is the infantry does. Mainly hiking for dozens of miles with a hundred pounds on your back. The female Marines I know have really bad hip problems because of it. Our last battalion hike, which was 15 km, nearly all the females fell out before halfway through. The Marine Corps had two female volunteers go through the infantry officer training course. both were dropped for medical reasons.

That's the only reason why they haven't been allowed in the infantry.

And if they're gonna start letting them in, they sure as fuck better have to meet the same requirements as men. Because I have to be able to do 10 pullups while women only have to do 3. (in the Marines) And none of the female marines I know can do 10 pullups.

I just don't want to see standards lowered. And I fear that they will be in the name of "equality,"

 

[Jive Turkey]

I just don't want to see standards lowered. And I fear that they will be in the name of "equality,"

Well I think that's more than reasonable. For what it's worth, when the Canadian military lifted the ban, all standards remained the same. As such, the numbers of female infantry is still very low, but the ones they do have are just as capable as the men

 

[BVS]

I know personally about a dozen female Marines in my company. and none of them think this is a good thing. I value their opinion more than some feminist congresswoman.

And what are these female's reasons for thinking it's not a good thing?

Do you really think there are going to be 1000s of unable females lining up just because some feminist congresswomen had an opinion? Think before you type man.

but anything infantry related is out of the question. I have yet to meet a single female that would be able to do what it is the infantry does. Mainly hiking for dozens of miles with a hundred pounds on your back.

So because you haven't met one, they don't exist? I've never met Icelander, are they real?

That's the only reason why they haven't been allowed in the infantry.

Not exactly...

And if they're gonna start letting them in, they sure as fuck better have to meet the same requirements as men.

Now, this I agree on, and I know many won't but I think you're right there has to be one standard for all soldiers.

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

And what are these female's reasons for thinking it's not a good thing?

I pretty much outlined what they said. the physical problems encountered. hip problems and infertility and serious problems in female Marines, even those that meet the standards. My friend is getting medically seperated because her hips are majorally fucked up.

 

[Pearl]

I know personally about a dozen female Marines in my company. and none of them think this is a good thing. I value their opinion more than some feminist congresswoman. That being said, Im not against overturning the ban per say, I think that there were many jobs like artillery and armor that they are more than capable of performing, but anything infantry related is out of the question. I have yet to meet a single female that would be able to do what it is the infantry does. Mainly hiking for dozens of miles with a hundred pounds on your back. The female Marines I know have really bad hip problems because of it. Our last battalion hike, which was 15 km, nearly all the females fell out before halfway through. The Marine Corps had two female volunteers go through the infantry officer training course. both were dropped for medical reasons.

That's the only reason why they haven't been allowed in the infantry.

And if they're gonna start letting them in, they sure as fuck better have to meet the same requirements as men. Because I have to be able to do 10 pullups while women only have to do 3. (in the Marines) And none of the female marines I know can do 10 pullups.

I just don't want to see standards lowered. And I fear that they will be in the name of "equality,"

I see your point, and I'm not refusing to admit that men are physically stronger than women. That's a biological fact no matter what.

I just think there should be more opportunities for women in the military. Also, I tend to think fighting wars these days is more about throwing bombs and operating drones, so that's my bad.

I have to admit I wonder what would happen if a woman has to be stationed in the woods somewhere for weeks at a time. Does the military still have soldiers stationed in a forest or jungle? I think they did that during Vietnam? Anyway, women do have different scents than men and she could be easily found and captured.

My dad was a major in the Reserves and he's adamantly against women being in the military altogether. He never wanted me or my sisters to go in because he thought it was no place for a woman. Then again, he has very sexist beliefs, so that's why I shrug off his opinions.

Also, I think female soldiers should be required to shave their heads like the men. Isn't that done to prevent lice? Yeah, I know being bald is considered unfeminine and even gross by some, but its only fair.

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

Not exactly...

you're right. I meant to say that was MY only reason. I find the whole sex/cohesion/protective instinct arguments complete bullshit and somewhat offensive to myself and other males.

 

[The_Pac_Mule]

I want women to have as many possibilities as they can. I just dont want to see more people die unnecessarily on the battlefield in the name of gender equality.

And I think they need to better understand the risks to damaging their bodies BEFORE entering the service. (particularly the Marine Corps) My friend I mentioned earlier would never had joined if she had known her hips could have been fucked up like they were.

 

[Jive Turkey]

I want women to have as many possibilities as they can. I just dont want to see more people die unnecessarily on the battlefield in the name of gender equality.

And I think they need to better understand the risks to damaging their bodies BEFORE entering the service. (particularly the Marine Corps) My friend I mentioned earlier would never had joined if she had known her hips could have been fucked up like they were.

Do you think there will be more people dying unnecessarily, or the same number, just mixed sexes?

I understand what you're saying about there maybe being unique bodily risks to women, but if you're shooting at people and getting shot at, risk is inherent to the job, no? I'm sure a lot of the vets coming back horribly wounded wouldn't have joined had they know that's what would happen.

 

[Danny Boy]

Don't want to put words in his mouth, but I think he meant more casualties overall if they allow soldiers unfit for infantry duty. They would put the whole company at risk.

 

[Jive Turkey]

But I thought we had established that there should remain one standard. There wouldn't be anyone more unfit than there already is

 

[Danny Boy]

Yes, we're saying the same thing. Just don't lower the standard in the name of equality. Total casualties shouldn't increase as long as the standard is maintained.

 

[anitram]

I think the questions around the draft are a bit irrelevant because it is obviously impractical to extend a draft to your entire adult population, and for that reason alone, women will not be drafted, nor should they be.

 

[Jive Turkey]

I think the questions around the draft are a bit irrelevant because it is obviously impractical to extend a draft to your entire adult population, and for that reason alone, women will not be drafted, nor should they be.

Obviously they wouldn't draft the entire adult population. But all things being equal, all names of anyone aged 18-25 would be thrown into the hat. Doesn't mean they're going to pull all of them. As such, I don't think it's a completely unreasonable discussion

 

[Danny Boy]

As has already been mentioned in this thread, there are countries that have compulsory military service for young men and women. They still seem to have successful breeding populations.

 

[Jive Turkey]

Oh yes. And that

 

[anitram]

As has already been mentioned in this thread, there are countries that have compulsory military service for young men and women. They still seem to have successful breeding populations.

I'm not sure if this is related to my draft comment, but I don't see how it plays a role. My point doesn't have anything to do with "breeding" but with the fact that you would never only leave children and the elderly as civilians (the entire economy would shut down, among other serious problems).

The way drafts work is upwards - you start at, say 18-25, but then as war needs expand, particularly in a serious internal or international conflict, you see that age creep up to 30, 35, 40, etc. I don't think that issuing a general draft order for everyone would make any sense and even when you remove those who would get to evade the draft due to medical conditions or being essential personnel, you still wouldn't want to be in a position where 80, 90% of your adults from say 18-40 are gone. Don't think it would come to this, and therefore I don't think that the draft would happen for that reason primarily, which is unrelated to whether women should be in infantry.

As for whether they should be, my feeling is that the relatively few women who could meet the physical standards should be allowed in, because what argument is there against them? Frankly I find it difficult to believe that you would suddenly have a glut of women interested in enlisting, the vast majority of whom would not be able to qualify based on the physical standards.