Spacefarer's Guide to Getting off this Planet

[DaveC]

[LuckyNumber7]

[dabiggestu2fan]

Originally Posted by LuckyNumber7

Attachment 11346

Ah I love Buzz Aldrin! Never takes crap from anyone! I don't condome violence in anyway but I actually kina liked when he punched that guy with the bibble demanding he swear on th bibble that he went to the moon!

[LuckyNumber7]

Buzz is still active in space exploration (he's a prominent lecturer at FIT in Melbourne, Florida).

I used to think he was past his time for failing to get in line with the times. He is someone who doesn't believe in returning to the moon to go to Mars. After completion of my master's project, I can say that I'm fully with him and that I think the moon is a massive waste of money, resources, and time. And it makes me realize, after having done the work myself, just how smart of a guy he must be.

[BEAL]

So didn't quite realize there's such a backlash against NASA and space in general.

Flat Earth
NASA stages all the photos of everything
Gravity isn't real
Child Slave Camp on Mars

Can we send these people into space?

[dazzledbylight]

Yesterday was "Moon Day" as in the 48th anniversary of the moon landing.

Oh, man, it was so nail-biting and thrilling at the same time!
I was 16 and already into SF, science and space exploration. My sis was 12. We were "drunk" giddy w excitement! Next day a friend and I saw the big screen they had put up in Central Park (NYC) for people to watch.

[dazzledbylight]

Hey, dab, how's your trip planning for Oregon/total eclipse going?

[DaveC]

how on kerbin did you get that giant lander into orbit and all the way to eve? and you actually got it *back*? that is some advanced stuff, i'm hella impressed.

my issue is always returning - i can get a single kerbal to duna and land, but if i use engines and not chutes to land (since i have only one kerbal i sorta need to use one of my pilots, and only engineers can repack chutes) i use up way too much fuel and don't have enough to escape/return. i can use a 3-man lander, but i can't seem to build them without them being enormously fuel-heavy and inefficient and thus gas guzzlers (which again doesn't leave enough to get back) or i make it too light and don't give myself enough dV in the first place.

i also really suck at mission planning. i know for efficiency i should be doing a rendezvous and LKO refueling etc but i hardly even know where to begin to get everything into LKO to do that. and i feel like i'm so bad at RV's that i would end up wasting a shit ton of fuel just getting the initial docking completed and sort of defeat the purpose. one thing i definitely need to start doing is launching during the most efficient window, but i also really don't like skipping months or years ahead if i can help it.

i also need to somehow launch one of those giant awkwardly shaped comms relay satellites to keep my probe control when they're outside of the kerbin SOI, and i have no idea how i'm going to do that without a giant payload fairing that i don't think exists in the game. those things are so non-aerodynamic that it's going to explode for sure if i just stick a naked dish on top of a probe core.

i'm a pro at mun and minmus landings at this point but i feel like i'm kinda stuck when it comes to interplanetary missions.

[LuckyNumber7]

Originally Posted by DaveC

how on kerbin did you get that giant lander into orbit and all the way to eve? and you actually got it *back*? that is some advanced stuff, i'm hella impressed.

Much like a real mission to Mars - a kerbal transfer vehicle, a fuel cargo vehicle, and a lander cargo vehicle. First inserted the cargo fuel into high Eve orbit. Next inserted the crew into low eve orbit with enough fuel to go to high eve orbit. Finally, inserted the lander into low eve orbit, while using no fuel from the EDL stage and allowing Eve's atmosphere to kill my velocity and eventually a series of drogue chutes followed by main chutes to bring 'er down with a full wet mass (very difficult, need to pin your entry angle perfectly and do many passes through the atmosphere so it doesn't burn up). The lander's launch phase is planned so that it moves rather slowly through the lower atmosphere to avoid drag and then sheds mass quickly as it gains in altitude. Once it jumps out of the atmosphere it is fed by a highly mass efficient nuclear thermal rocket cruise stage to circularize the orbit. The launch timing should be synchronized such that rendezvous with crew costs minimal delta v on the crew end. They pick up the kerbal from the lander and then go up to high Eve orbit and RVD with fuel, just enough to get the command module into kerbal orbit on a trajectory scratching the Kerbin atmosphere.

Launch is a bit of a nightmare. All $500,000 payloads. Typically a core mounted stage that's lifted into kerbin exit by a 4x mammoth engine rig surrounding it.

my issue is always returning - i can get a single kerbal to duna and land, but if i use engines and not chutes to land (since i have only one kerbal i sorta need to use one of my pilots, and only engineers can repack chutes) i use up way too much fuel and don't have enough to escape/return. i can use a 3-man lander, but i can't seem to build them without them being enormously fuel-heavy and inefficient and thus gas guzzlers (which again doesn't leave enough to get back) or i make it too light and don't give myself enough dV in the first place.

I suggest actually doing a rocket equation to solve for staging of your lander's launch phases. If something is a "gas guzzler" it means the stage in front of it is too heavy. For Duna, you should be using a high thrust system. Maximum. Due to lack of real atmosphere, ballistics are best at getting out of a gravity well. Low acceleration is only useful under atmospheric conditions.

Also, consider cargo. Makes life easier if you can abandon stuff in other orbits.

i also really suck at mission planning. i know for efficiency i should be doing a rendezvous and LKO refueling etc but i hardly even know where to begin to get everything into LKO to do that. and i feel like i'm so bad at RV's that i would end up wasting a shit ton of fuel just getting the initial docking completed and sort of defeat the purpose. one thing i definitely need to start doing is launching during the most efficient window, but i also really don't like skipping months or years ahead if i can help it.

Yeah, KSP needs better launch planning. But. I would say just launch to escape and maneuver at a node. Pin your entry to make it such that you put a periapsis flyby in low orbit around the target's proper side (depending on which direction you approach from) - this should give a pretty nice gravity assist.

I'm afraid skipping months ahead is the best way to proceed.

i'm a pro at mun and minmus landings at this point but i feel like i'm kinda stuck when it comes to interplanetary missions.

Fear not, friend. I suggest you first practice RVD. It's not hard but at first it is daunting. Focus on the navball. When it changes from "Orbit" to "Target", that's when you need to start pointing at the target crosshairs and mess around with your relative velocity and when you're close enough, it's basically euclidien at that point.

Next, practice making surface to Kerbin orbit "landers." If it can make it off kerbin with fuel to spare, it can make it off Duna no problem. Remember, high thrust! You can always throttle down in space (where thrust is relatively unimportant).

[DaveC]

goddamn, that eve mission sounds insanely complex. the only time i ever tried to go to eve was with a probe, and while it was on its way there i was busy with another mission and lost track of the probe and completely overshot the planet. now the probe is so far away on the other side of the sun that it is out of comms range and i can't control it anymore.

my issue with rendezvous is less so the actual docking itself, than with actually getting the two vehicles within the 2.0 km distance to be able to actually perform the maneuver in an efficient manner. i get into a normal orbit and then find myself having to burn a lot of extra fuel just to get the spacecraft to meet up. i read that ideally you should launch shortly before the craft you're trying to RV with is over the launch pad and then it should line them up pretty well, but i haven't got the timing down so that ends up usually putting me just behind the other ship in a terrible spot to have to try and catch up.

what did you mean by "consider cargo"?

i guess at this point i just need to practice getting all manner of LKO stuff down efficiently before i start worrying about flying the mission to duna. then i'll be able to get fuel tanks into orbit which will make things way easier. in my first KSP career save (which is now long gone thanks to some PC issues i was having in the springtime) i somehow managed to have a fully manned space station with a couple fuel tanks attached to it (no idea how i got all that put together in hindsight, that was version 0.6 or so, i feel like docking has become a lot more challenging since they released 1.0).

tonight i have nothing to do except watch big brother and clean a few dishes so maybe i'll focus on practicing this. i've been so focused on building a spacecraft for the duna mission lately that i haven't really thought about much else in the game.

i also haven't been playing it a whole lot lately - i'm on a pretty epic run in EU4 at the moment (city state of koln -> duchy of cologne -> kingdom of westphalia -> holy roman emperor -> kaiser of germany) and that's been eating up the vast majority of my gaming time. like i said i feel like i'm in a bit of a rut with KSP lately so it's been tough to go back to it more than once a week or so. hopefully your advice helps, and i think it will. thanks bae

[DaveC]

well, i *was* planning on playing KSP last night. "i'll only play EU4 for an hour then switch to KSP" i thought at about 7:30 pm. the bastard holy roman emperor decided to change my plans, however, by surprise-declaring a religious war on me and calling in the catholic league. the thirst for revenge was real after that backstab, so i spent the entire evening beating down papists all over germany instead of practicing orbital maneuvers. but hey, i went from being a vassal duchy under an oppressive heretic emperor, to an independent kingdom leading a strong protestant alliance, so it all worked out in the end. i shall get back to shooting frogs into space this weekend.

[dabiggestu2fan]

Originally Posted by dazzledbylight

Hey, dab, how's your trip planning for Oregon/total eclipse going?

Sorry I haven't been on this thread for a while! My apologies for the late reply! I finally found a spot in Madras, a camping site but let me tell you it's going to be freaking hectic! The hotels were all sold out for two years now and the few remaining motels in the area are asking from 1400-3000 for the night before the eclipse! Crazy! I am leaving Canada on Sunday morning and the drive is normally about 7.5 hours but they are saying the drive from Portland t madras (normally a 2.5 hours long) could be as much as 8 hours even a day or tw before the eclipse. So I am trying to convince my coworkers to cover my Saturday shift and see if I can leave a day earlier stay in Portland and then drive Sunday morning to madras. Since I am camping in Madras (assuming I make it on time lol) I will be bringing my 6" mak cassegrain scope (for night viewing since it will be in the desert and no moon, the sky should be amazing!) and I'll bring my smaller 80 mm scope for the actual eclipse shot. I'm also bringing my two DSLR cameras with me and my lenses. I hope to have one camera set up on a tripod shooting wide angle shots or automatic times shots so I get a time lapse and my other DSLR will be hooked to the scope for close up photos. I don't know how I will do during totality as it is only two minutes and 4 seconds so must likely I'll just have my camera on the tripod just shooting away on its own every 30 seconds while I'll concentrate on the super close ups through the scope. Since this is my first total solar eclipse and been waiting for like 20 years I'm torn because I want to get the best possible shot but I also want to actually enjoy the actual eclipse but with the short time window, I'll either have to pic the photography or just take one or two shots and just look up and take it all in. Lol either way I am super excited but just not about the commute and the craziness. I heard Madras Oregon will get about 10x its population in visitors from all over the country to see it as it is rated the best spot in the country for the eclipse. On top of that there is a huge star party and an airshow that week there so it's going to be NUTS!! Are you going to be able to view it?? Anyone else planning on viewing it/photographing it? This weekend I'll spend my time dusting off my gear and making sure everything is in top working order! Last thing I need is to realize something is not working or I forgot a very important peice hours before the eclipse lol.

[dabiggestu2fan]

In the mean time, this is the first photo I took in the whole summer. I took it on Monday under a vey smokey sky from the forest fires we have been having in bc! Been so busy and stressed with work and life that I let my passion slip. Trying to get inspired and polish the rust off lol.

[dabiggestu2fan]

If I take my 6" mak to Oregon I'll be shooting some globular star clusters and maybe the andromeda Galaxy. But I'll be keeping the night time astrophotography to a minimum to conserve battery power for the actual eclipse. Nothing worse than running out of batteries!

[dazzledbylight]

Hi dab You're a busy guy, I understand!

Love all the cameras, lens, and a telescope you are taking

Alas no money to have this particular adventure. My sis and i will be in a big park in way northern Manhattan.

Seen a few partial eclipses. Done the box pinhole thing. Love the "pinhole camera " effect when you look at the trees' shadows. Multiple crescent suns! Learned about that effect later on in the ? late 80's.

You know we're going to be vicariously living through you! Ha ha ha! No pressure dude!

And wow I was really surprised way back when i read that Oreagon had a desert part!

I have seen the star scape from the High desert of Monument Valley bout 40 yes ago after the moon set around 2am and i woke up to the magical, amazing swarth of the Milky Way (swoon)! By oh 3:30ish AM the most faint stars started to disappear although the sun wouldn't be up for another 2+ hours.

Lots happening where you're going. I hope your coworker can cover for you! Lot of hassle but OMG it'll be worth it to see the shadow racing towards you, the diamond ring, totality with the corona (!!!) . wow!

[DaveC]

this is really cool: https://eyes.jpl.nasa.gov/eyes-on-eclipse-web-app.html

click anywhere in north america to preview the view of the eclipse. you can also see what it would look like from the moon's perspective or at a solar system-level.

it took a while to load on my decently fast pc though, heads up.

[dabiggestu2fan]

Thanks Dazzle snd Awesome Dave! Ill give you guys an update and hopefully some eclipse photos in a few days when I am back! All packed and ready to face the galaxy of people! Judging by the traffic chaos it will be the centre of the universe lol. I hope you all an enjoy this wonderfull spectacle!! Time to cross the border! Cheers!

[dazzledbylight]

Go well, dab. Have a great time!

[deep]

A lot of the news coverage has not been very good,

I really wanted to see how daylight would drop at totality


CNN finally showed it in St Joseph Mo.

Here is a link


https://mobile.twitter.com/ABC/statu...034690/video/1


One can understand why previous cultures did panic.

[dabiggestu2fan]

So I'm still in the states, the eclipse was freaking amazing! Almost a spiritual experience and very surreal! Such a weird thing to see, I was in the desert where it got about 33 Celsius so very hot, about 20 minutes before totality you certainly noticed the temperature dropping and by totality I was wearing a jacket! After totality temperature went right up again! There was a bat flying around probably thinking it was evening. The bright planets instantly al became visible during totality and I wouldn't describe the darkness as the equivalent to twilight, it got dark but not totally, it was just a weird darkness, like on all horizons it was light but the closer to the sun you got, the darker the sky was. And the lighting was just on odd color. All in al it was an amazing but very weird experience. Here is a few shots I took that I quickly picked in the hotel. I've got many shots to go through and I took a shot a minute that I will turn into a time lapse animation. I will see if I can attach a few quick photos