Socialism = Fascism?

[elevated_u2_fan]

You know who else had lists????? Hitler!

so does Santa Claus... Coincidence? You be the judge.

 

[Tiger Edge]

Rearrange the letters in Santa and what do you get?

That's right, Satan.

Also, I'm pretty sure Claus is a Gerry surname if I ever saw one. There's a big conspiracy about all this and everyone is in on it. Good thing I already started working on my 2012 bunker to hide me from the fascist socialists.

 

[elevated_u2_fan]

this is getting creepy :skerd:

 

[Tiger Edge]

You should be scared.

Kenyan Muslim super socialist-fascist black supremacists will not take over my country!!

 

[INDY500]

Fascist states and socialist dictatorships are both totalatarian systems, and to that extent they may have a lot in common. But philosophically they are not the same at all.

I'm afraid a serious discussion is impossible. Shame, as it's an interesting subject and a great part of 20th Century history. And as they say, those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

 

[Tiger Edge]

I'm afraid a serious discussion is impossible.

NOW it's a town hall meeting.

 

[martha]

I'm afraid a serious discussion is impossible. Shame, as it's an interesting subject and a great part of 20th Century history. And as they say, those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

We tried, but all you coughed up was a list and a quote.

 

[BVS]

Mussollini, the father of fascism, was a socialist.
Even after splitting with the party organization he declared, "Whatever happens you won't lose me, twelve years of my life in the party ought to be sufficient guarantee of my socialist faith. Socialism is in my blood." Also saying, "I am and shall remain a socialist and my convictions will never change. They are bred into my very bones."

Taken directly from:

"Liberal Fascism: the secret history of the American left"

by Jonah Goldberg

The quote is never sourced and I can't find it anywhere else.




If we keep using sources like this and refuse to use critical thinking, then you are correct, discussion is impossible.

 

[diamond]

I think whether it be Socialism, Facism, Communism they are as Sean said :totalitarian govts.


That said, most Americans sense that too much govt intervention is a step in the wrong direction-it could lead to a totalitarian govt. America was built on a different foundation than other nations, and many feel what is currently under foot is as an attempt to erode the foundation in which our country was built upon.

That causes some here to call those who oppose potentail new programs-names.

This is interesting it occured in 1959:

“At one point during Khrushchev’s visit, the Soviet Premier boasted to the Agriculture Secretary that Benson’s own grandchildren would live under Communism. Benson replied tartly that he expected to do all in his power to assure that Khrushchev’s and all other grandchildren would live under freedom. The Communist leader then responded in essence, according to Benson’s personal account: "You Americans are so gullible. No, you won’t accept communism outright, but we’ll keep feeding you small doses of socialism until you’ll finally wake up and find you already have communism.” (Soviet Premier of Russia Nikita Khrushchev, to Secretary of Agriculture, Ezra Taft Benson 1959.)

<>

 

[Bonoa]

I love this thread!

 

[BVS]

That causes some here to call those who oppose potentail new programs-names.

When you find an ACTUAL case of this, please let us know.

 

[UberBeaver]

Mussollini, the father of fascism, was a socialist.
Even after splitting with the party organization he declared, "Whatever happens you won't lose me, twelve years of my life in the party ought to be sufficient guarantee of my socialist faith. Socialism is in my blood." Also saying, "I am and shall remain a socialist and my convictions will never change. They are bred into my very bones."

He was either lying or truly believed he was a socialist. But he wasn't. He was a dictator.

Can someone explain to me - using logic and facts (OMG!!!) what is wrong with Universal Healthcare - is it just the price point? And also, why pushing for universal healthcare is somehow related to Hitler, who as far as I can tell, was adamantly opposed to any sort of health care for large segments of the German population.

 

[maycocksean]

I'm afraid a serious discussion is impossible. Shame, as it's an interesting subject and a great part of 20th Century history. And as they say, those that fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

Why is it impossible? It's already been established that I'm willing to discuss.

I don't mind the Uberbeav and Co. leavening things with a little humor. It certainly doesn't have to shut down the discussion.

 

[martha]

That said, most Americans sense that too much govt intervention is a step in the wrong direction-

Unless that intervention is on the side you support. The Patriot Act, who can marry who, who gets to decide who has babies, who's required to wear helmets, etc. That's what so fun to watch: the folks who champion "government intervention" until they think it'll affect them, then they get a little uncomfortable.

 

[diamond]

When you find an ACTUAL case of this, please let us know.

ACTUAL? Perhaps there are not actual instances, but it is inferred that ppl who oppose certain programs are stupid, paranoid, uncompassionate, selfish, ..yadie yadie yadie..

<>

 

[maycocksean]

ACTUAL? Perhaps there are not actual instances, but it is inferred that ppl who oppose certain programs are stupid, paranoid, uncompassionate, selfish, ..yadie yadie yadie..

<>

No, D, it's that the stupid, paranoid etc people are the ones we're hearing from. I'd LIKE to hear reasonable suggestions from the oppositon but they've been few and far between.

 

[Tiger Edge]

Can someone explain to me - using logic and facts (OMG!!!) what is wrong with Universal Healthcare - is it just the price point? And also, why pushing for universal healthcare is somehow related to Hitler, who as far as I can tell, was adamantly opposed to any sort of health care for large segments of the German population.

Reagon is GOD. His word (or recording) is gospel!

 

[maycocksean]

Unless that intervention is on the side you support. The Patriot Act, who can marry who, who gets to decide who has babies, who's required to wear helmets, etc. That's what so fun to watch: the folks who champion "government intervention" until they think it'll affect them, then they get a little uncomfortable.

Good point.

Rebutal?

 

[UberBeaver]

Reagan was a puppet.

 

[BVS]

ACTUAL? Perhaps there are not actual instances, but it is inferred that ppl who oppose certain programs are stupid, paranoid, incompassionate, selfish, ..yadie yadie yadie..

<>

Nothing is inferred. Well there may have been one poster...

But no one has inferred or called names based soley on opposition. I think some folks need to stop playing the victim card so quickly.

It just happens to be that that stupid and paranoid ones are the ones making all the noise.

If you are opposed based on lies or just because you are towing the party line, then you are going to be called out on it.

So far there's really only been one poster who has at least tried to engage in opposition, and that's all I'll say about that.

 

[Bonoa]

Mussollini, the father of fascism, was a socialist.

You're sure you didn't forget to put the word 'national' in front of 'socialist'?

 

[maycocksean]

Taken directly from:

"Liberal Fascism: the secret history of the American left"

One other thing I'd suggest. Could we state the sources for our information, and furthermore could we try to avoid sources that are obviously partisan (like the one above). I promise not to cite Mother Jones, if INDY and co promise not cite folks like the author of this book.

So far everything I've said has been based on my student's 9th grade World History textbook.

 

[UberBeaver]

One other thing I'd suggest. Could we state the sources for our information, and furthermore could we try to avoid sources that are obviously partisan (like the one above). I promise not to cite Mother Jones, if INDY and co promise not cite folks like the author of this book.

So far everything I've said has been based on my student's 9th grade World History textbook.

9th Grade Textbook = Liberal Propaganda. Sorry, Sean.

 

[bigjohn2441]

1.) end the wars overseas, close non-essential military bases.

2.) end failed war on drugs. legalize, tax, and control all drugs. release all non-violent drug offenders from jail / prison. with prison population down by somewhere around almost 50%, close all un-needed private prisons funded by the government.

3.) get rid if all medical insurance companies.

4.) with all the money the government saved from cutting military spending, paying for prisoners and prisons, and income from legalized, taxed drugs, they pay for healthcare for everyone. private doctors, hospitals, dentists, etc etc are all reimbursed by the government for the services they provide. government pays for all supplies, medicines, equipment, etc at dirt cheap rate. everything runs pretty much the same except instead of insurance companies paying the doctors, the government pays for everything. no salary changes, no job cuts, nothing. the government doesnt "RUN" healthcare or interfere with policy, it just pays for it, no questions asked.

5.) if you are healthy and dont use the system that often, you get a tax break. if you are unhealthy and go to the doctor every week, you dont. simple.

just a possible idea to make the government work for us instead of us working for the government

 

[maycocksean]

9th Grade Textbook = Liberal Propaganda. Sorry, Sean.

**sigh**

Fine, then.

Sources that a least are not obviously partistan and/or claim to be impartial.

 

[bigjohn2441]

yes, we dont want to have to pay for your healthcare, we would rather you overpay for shitty coverage so our special interest groups that payed us off will get rich. shut the fuck up and get back to work!

 

[God Part III]

Once again:

Genius.

 

[UberBeaver]

yes, we dont want to have to pay for your healthcare, we would rather you overpay for shitty coverage so our special interest groups that payed us off will get rich. shut the fuck up and get back to work!

I think Obama should open with that.

 

[INDY500]

Taken directly from:

"Liberal Fascism: the secret history of the American left"

by Jonah Goldberg

The quote is never sourced and I can't find it anywhere else.




If we keep using sources like this and refuse to use critical thinking, then you are correct, discussion is impossible.

Ummmm, that is a Mussolini quote, not a Jonah Goldberg quote. I know it from Ayn Rand's writings although I have and have read Liberal Fascism..

 

[Irvine511]

Unless that intervention is on the side you support. The Patriot Act, who can marry who, who gets to decide who has babies, who's required to wear helmets, etc. That's what so fun to watch: the folks who champion "government intervention" until they think it'll affect them, then they get a little uncomfortable.

the GOP only wants universal health care for unborn Americans.