BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
If you've read my posts you would know I'm not suggesting bowing to anything. But I do see the flaws in the current system, that seems fairly obvious to me.
so, the terrorists win...
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If you've read my posts you would know I'm not suggesting bowing to anything. But I do see the flaws in the current system, that seems fairly obvious to me.
Moonlit_Angel
Blue Crack Addict
Exactly. By coming up with more ludicrous ways to try and keep us safe here or there, we are completely neglecting the problems that lead to terrorism occurring in the first place. By focusing on profiling one group over others (which doesn't seem to be associated with this latest measure in particular, but which has happened in the past), we ignore the fact that, not to make this sound like a "Nowhere is safe!" paranoia thing, threats can come from any group of people.
How did this country manage to survive and handle airport security in the pre-9/11 days, hell, in the pre-fancy-schmancy technology days? Can't we take elements of that mindset, that trust, and work it into a modern, post-9/11 setting without having to get so freakin' intrusive with everyone that wants to get on a plane? After Timothy McVeigh's terrorist attack on that federal building, how overboard did we go with security at other federal buildings? I know many federal buildings do have security measures in place, but have a lot of them gone to extremes such as this? If not, then why does that have to be the case here?
Certainly, the thought of being on a plane only to find out there's also a terrorist on board is downright frightening to me and I hope and pray that I'm never in such a situation, but personally, the idea of me being on a plane that crashes due to a malfunction of the plane itself is much more of an immediate concern, simply because that situation seems a lot more likely to happen. There's reasonable concern and safety, and then there's overreaction. And it seems like all we've done the last 9 years is overreact more often than not, only to find we haven't really solved anything in the end.
Angela
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
I can only imagine what happens if you're a woman wearing a pad or a tampon (don't know if the scanner can see tampons). Maybe we should just take those out in the line too and put them in the bin?
So breast cancer survivors and handicapped people can be treated like that but we can't profile people, well cause that just wouldn't be right.
By Suzanne Choney
msnbc.com msnbc.com
updated 11/20/2010
A longtime Charlotte, N.C., flight attendant and cancer survivor told a local television station that she was forced to show her prosthetic breast during a pat-down.
Cathy Bossi, who works for U.S. Airways, said she received the pat-down after declining to do the full-body scan because of radiation concerns.
The TSA screener "put her full hand on my breast and said, 'What is this?' " Bossi told the station. "And I said, 'It's my prosthesis because I've had breast cancer.' And she said, 'Well, you'll need to show me that.' "
Bossi said she removed the prosthetic from her bra. She did not take the name of the agent, she said, "because it was just so horrific of an experience, I couldn't believe someone had done that to me. I'm a flight attendant. I was just trying to get to work."
For Americans who wear prosthetics — either because they are cancer survivors or have lost a limb — or who have undergone hip replacements or have a pacemaker, the humiliation of the TSA's new security procedures — choosing between a body scan or body search — is even worse.
Musa Mayer has worn a breast prosthesis for 21 years since her mastectomy and is used to the alarms it sets off at airport security. But nothing prepared her for the "invasive and embarrassing" experience of being patted down, poked and examined recently while passing through airport security at Dulles International Airport in Washington, D.C.
"I asked the supervisor if she realized that there are 3 million women who have had breast cancer in the U.S., many of whom wear breast prostheses. Will each of us now have to undergo this humiliating, time-consuming routine every time we pass through one of these new body scanners?" she said in an e-mail to msnbc.com.
Marlene McCarthy of Rhode Island said she went through the body scanner and was told by a TSA agent to step aside. In "full view of everyone," McCarthy said in an e-mail, the agent "immediately put the back of her hand on my right side chest and I explained I wore a prosthesis.
"Then, she put her full hands ... one on top and one on the bottom of my 'breast' and moved the prosthesis left, right, up, down and said 'OK.' I was so humiliated.
"I went to the desk area and complained," McCarthy wrote. "The woman there was very nice and I asked her if the training included an understanding of how prosthetics are captured on the scanner and told her the pat-down is embarrassing. She said, 'We have never even had that discussion and I do the training for the TSA employees here, following the standard manual provided.' She said she will bring it up at their next meeting."
If she has to go through the scanner again, McCarthy said, "I am determined to put the prosthesis in the gray bucket," provided to travelers at the security check-ins for items such as jewelry.
"Let the TSA scanners be embarrassed .... not me anymore!" she wrote.
Sharon Kiss, 66, has a pacemaker, but also has to fly often for her work.
"During a recent enhanced pat-down, a screener cupped my breasts and felt my genitals," she said in an e-mail to msnbc.com "To 'clear my waistband' she put her hands down my pants and groped for the waistband of my underwear.
"I expressed humiliation and was told 'You have the choice not to fly.' "
The remark infuriated Kiss, who lives in Mendocino, Calif. "Extrapolate this to we should not provide curb cuts and ramps for people confined to wheelchairs because they can choose to stay home ... This a violation of civil rights. And because I have a disability, I should not be subjected to what is government-sanctioned sexual assault in order to board a plane."
So far, the government is not letting up on the enhanced screening program. TSA administrator John Pistole said this week at a Congressional hearing on the matter that "reasonable people can disagree" on how to properly balance safety at the nation's airports, but that the new security measures are necessary because of intelligence on latest attack methods that might be used by terrorists.
Gail Mengel, of Blue Springs, Mo., is used to being patted down; she had a hip replacement five years ago.
"I admit that I was relieved when I flew last week and was able to spend a few seconds in front of the X-ray screen in Seattle and Denver," she said in an e-mail to msnbc.com. "I have heard medical experts say the level of radiation will not hurt us. And frankly I was happy to realize I won't have my body touched, patted and rubbed anymore.
"Unfortunately last weekend, I arrived at the New Orleans airport and learned that airport staff (was) still being trained in using the X-ray machine. Because my hip replacement sets off the security buzzer, I was faced with the new regulations."
While she is "used to" being patted down, "this experience was certainly much more personal, uncomfortable and embarrassing," she said. "Every part of my body was touched. I do not want to be harmed by radiation, but the experience was painless and quick compared to what I have faced over the last five years. I support security measures but I also hope we can be assured of safe procedures."
One man, from Nashville, wrote in an e-mail that "as a handicapped person, I am sick and tired of being 'raped' at the security line. I lose my crutches and leg orthotics to be 'nuked' by the X-ray machine. Then manhandled by the pat-down, followed by chemical swabbing for 'possible explosives.' ...Enough is enough."
Said Mayer, the longtime breast cancer survivor: "I am outraged that I will now be forced to show my prosthesis to strangers, remove it and put in the X-ray bin for screening, or not to wear it at all whenever I fly. To me, this seems unfairly discriminatory and embarrassing for me, and for all breast cancer survivors."
So breast cancer survivors and handicapped people can be treated like that but we can't profile people, well cause that just wouldn't be right.
By Suzanne Choney
msnbc.com msnbc.com
updated 11/20/2010
A longtime Charlotte, N.C., flight attendant and cancer survivor told a local television station that she was forced to show her prosthetic breast during a pat-down.
Cathy Bossi, who works for U.S. Airways, said she received the pat-down after declining to do the full-body scan because of radiation concerns.
The TSA screener "put her full hand on my breast and said, 'What is this?' " Bossi told the station. "And I said, 'It's my prosthesis because I've had breast cancer.' And she said, 'Well, you'll need to show me that.' "
Bossi said she removed the prosthetic from her bra. She did not take the name of the agent, she said, "because it was just so horrific of an experience, I couldn't believe someone had done that to me. I'm a flight attendant. I was just trying to get to work."
For Americans who wear prosthetics — either because they are cancer survivors or have lost a limb — or who have undergone hip replacements or have a pacemaker, the humiliation of the TSA's new security procedures — choosing between a body scan or body search — is even worse.
Musa Mayer has worn a breast prosthesis for 21 years since her mastectomy and is used to the alarms it sets off at airport security. But nothing prepared her for the "invasive and embarrassing" experience of being patted down, poked and examined recently while passing through airport security at Dulles International Airport in Washington, D.C.
"I asked the supervisor if she realized that there are 3 million women who have had breast cancer in the U.S., many of whom wear breast prostheses. Will each of us now have to undergo this humiliating, time-consuming routine every time we pass through one of these new body scanners?" she said in an e-mail to msnbc.com.
Marlene McCarthy of Rhode Island said she went through the body scanner and was told by a TSA agent to step aside. In "full view of everyone," McCarthy said in an e-mail, the agent "immediately put the back of her hand on my right side chest and I explained I wore a prosthesis.
"Then, she put her full hands ... one on top and one on the bottom of my 'breast' and moved the prosthesis left, right, up, down and said 'OK.' I was so humiliated.
"I went to the desk area and complained," McCarthy wrote. "The woman there was very nice and I asked her if the training included an understanding of how prosthetics are captured on the scanner and told her the pat-down is embarrassing. She said, 'We have never even had that discussion and I do the training for the TSA employees here, following the standard manual provided.' She said she will bring it up at their next meeting."
If she has to go through the scanner again, McCarthy said, "I am determined to put the prosthesis in the gray bucket," provided to travelers at the security check-ins for items such as jewelry.
"Let the TSA scanners be embarrassed .... not me anymore!" she wrote.
Sharon Kiss, 66, has a pacemaker, but also has to fly often for her work.
"During a recent enhanced pat-down, a screener cupped my breasts and felt my genitals," she said in an e-mail to msnbc.com "To 'clear my waistband' she put her hands down my pants and groped for the waistband of my underwear.
"I expressed humiliation and was told 'You have the choice not to fly.' "
The remark infuriated Kiss, who lives in Mendocino, Calif. "Extrapolate this to we should not provide curb cuts and ramps for people confined to wheelchairs because they can choose to stay home ... This a violation of civil rights. And because I have a disability, I should not be subjected to what is government-sanctioned sexual assault in order to board a plane."
So far, the government is not letting up on the enhanced screening program. TSA administrator John Pistole said this week at a Congressional hearing on the matter that "reasonable people can disagree" on how to properly balance safety at the nation's airports, but that the new security measures are necessary because of intelligence on latest attack methods that might be used by terrorists.
Gail Mengel, of Blue Springs, Mo., is used to being patted down; she had a hip replacement five years ago.
"I admit that I was relieved when I flew last week and was able to spend a few seconds in front of the X-ray screen in Seattle and Denver," she said in an e-mail to msnbc.com. "I have heard medical experts say the level of radiation will not hurt us. And frankly I was happy to realize I won't have my body touched, patted and rubbed anymore.
"Unfortunately last weekend, I arrived at the New Orleans airport and learned that airport staff (was) still being trained in using the X-ray machine. Because my hip replacement sets off the security buzzer, I was faced with the new regulations."
While she is "used to" being patted down, "this experience was certainly much more personal, uncomfortable and embarrassing," she said. "Every part of my body was touched. I do not want to be harmed by radiation, but the experience was painless and quick compared to what I have faced over the last five years. I support security measures but I also hope we can be assured of safe procedures."
One man, from Nashville, wrote in an e-mail that "as a handicapped person, I am sick and tired of being 'raped' at the security line. I lose my crutches and leg orthotics to be 'nuked' by the X-ray machine. Then manhandled by the pat-down, followed by chemical swabbing for 'possible explosives.' ...Enough is enough."
Said Mayer, the longtime breast cancer survivor: "I am outraged that I will now be forced to show my prosthesis to strangers, remove it and put in the X-ray bin for screening, or not to wear it at all whenever I fly. To me, this seems unfairly discriminatory and embarrassing for me, and for all breast cancer survivors."
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
Oh, no not yet. We have to wait for a terrorist to try and make a bomb out of a tampon.
Then, per their track record, the TSA will decide that menstruating women will have to go through special security procedures as well.
Meanwhile, the terrorists will be moving on to their next brilliant concept, and the TSA will follow one step behind, trying to close the barn door again after all the horses have escaped.
Tra la la!
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
I'd love to just take it out and put it in the bin and see their reaction. I'd probably be arrested 
Eye rolling at a 61 year old man who has to wear a urostomy bag-so very professional and sensitive
By Harriet Baskas Travel writer
msnbc.com contributor
updated 11/20/2010
A retired special education teacher on his way to a wedding in Orlando, Fla., said he was left humiliated, crying and covered with his own urine after an enhanced pat-down by TSA officers recently at Detroit Metropolitan Airport.
“I was absolutely humiliated, I couldn’t even speak,” said Thomas D. “Tom” Sawyer, 61, of Lansing, Mich.
Sawyer is a bladder cancer survivor who now wears a urostomy bag, which collects his urine from a stoma, or opening in his stomach. “I have to wear special clothes and in order to mount the bag I have to seal a wafer to my stomach and then attach the bag. If the seal is broken, urine can leak all over my body and clothes.”
On Nov. 7, Sawyer said he went through the security scanner at Detroit Metropolitan Airport. “Evidently the scanner picked up on my urostomy bag, because I was chosen for a pat-down procedure.”
Due to his medical condition, Sawyer asked to be screened in private. “One officer looked at another, rolled his eyes and said that they really didn’t have any place to take me,” said Sawyer. “After I said again that I’d like privacy, they took me to an office.”
Sawyer wears pants two sizes too large in order to accommodate the medical equipment he wears. He’d taken off his belt to go through the scanner and once in the office with security personnel, his pants fell down around his ankles. “I had to ask twice if it was OK to pull up my shorts,” said Sawyer, “And every time I tried to tell them about my medical condition, they said they didn’t need to know about that.”
Before starting the enhanced pat-down procedure, a security officer did tell him what they were going to do and how they were going to it, but Sawyer said it wasn’t until they asked him to remove his sweatshirt and saw his urostomy bag that they asked any questions about his medical condition.
“One agent watched as the other used his flat hand to go slowly down my chest. I tried to warn him that he would hit the bag and break the seal on my bag, but he ignored me. Sure enough, the seal was broken and urine started dribbling down my shirt and my leg and into my pants.”
The security officer finished the pat-down, tested the gloves for any trace of explosives and then, Sawyer said, “He told me I could go. They never apologized. They never offered to help. They acted like they hadn’t seen what happened. But I know they saw it because I had a wet mark.”
Humiliated, upset and wet, Sawyer said he had to walk through the airport soaked in urine, board his plane and wait until after takeoff before he could clean up.
“I am totally appalled by the fact that agents that are performing these pat-downs have so little concern for people with medical conditions,” said Sawyer.
Sawyer completed his trip and had no problems with the security procedures at the Orlando International Airport on his journey back home. He said he plans to file a formal complaint with the TSA.
When he does, said TSA spokesperson Dwayne Baird, “We will review the matter and take appropriate action if necessary.” In the meantime, Baird encourages anyone with a medical condition to read the TSA’s website section on assistive devices and mobility aids.
The website says that travelers with disabilities and medical conditions have “the option of requesting a private screening” and that security officers “will not ask nor require you to remove your prosthetic device, cast, or support brace.”
Sawyer said he's written to his senators, state representatives and the president of the United States. He’s also shared details of the incident online with members of the nonprofit Bladder Cancer Advocacy Network, many of whom have offered support and shared their travel experiences.
“I am a good American and I want safety for all passengers as much as the next person," Sawyer said. "But if this country is going to sacrifice treating people like human beings in the name of safety, then we have already lost the war. "
Bladder Cancer Advocacy Network executive director Claire Saxton said that there are hundreds of thousands of people living with ostomies in the United States. “TSA agents need to be trained to listen when someone tells them have a health issue and trained in knowing what an ostomy is. No one living with an ostomy should be afraid of flying because they’re afraid of being humiliated at the checkpoint.”
Eric Lipp, executive director of Open Doors Association, which works with businesses and the disability community, called what happened to Sawyer “unfortunate.”
“But enhanced pat-downs are not a new issue for people with disabilities who travel," Lipp said. "They've always had trouble getting through the security checkpoint."
Still, Lipp said the TSA knows there’s a problem. “This came up during a recent meeting of the agency’s disability advisory board and I expect to see a procedure coming in place shortly that will directly address the pat-down procedures for people with disabilities.”
Eye rolling at a 61 year old man who has to wear a urostomy bag-so very professional and sensitive
By Harriet Baskas Travel writer
msnbc.com contributor
updated 11/20/2010
A retired special education teacher on his way to a wedding in Orlando, Fla., said he was left humiliated, crying and covered with his own urine after an enhanced pat-down by TSA officers recently at Detroit Metropolitan Airport.
“I was absolutely humiliated, I couldn’t even speak,” said Thomas D. “Tom” Sawyer, 61, of Lansing, Mich.
Sawyer is a bladder cancer survivor who now wears a urostomy bag, which collects his urine from a stoma, or opening in his stomach. “I have to wear special clothes and in order to mount the bag I have to seal a wafer to my stomach and then attach the bag. If the seal is broken, urine can leak all over my body and clothes.”
On Nov. 7, Sawyer said he went through the security scanner at Detroit Metropolitan Airport. “Evidently the scanner picked up on my urostomy bag, because I was chosen for a pat-down procedure.”
Due to his medical condition, Sawyer asked to be screened in private. “One officer looked at another, rolled his eyes and said that they really didn’t have any place to take me,” said Sawyer. “After I said again that I’d like privacy, they took me to an office.”
Sawyer wears pants two sizes too large in order to accommodate the medical equipment he wears. He’d taken off his belt to go through the scanner and once in the office with security personnel, his pants fell down around his ankles. “I had to ask twice if it was OK to pull up my shorts,” said Sawyer, “And every time I tried to tell them about my medical condition, they said they didn’t need to know about that.”
Before starting the enhanced pat-down procedure, a security officer did tell him what they were going to do and how they were going to it, but Sawyer said it wasn’t until they asked him to remove his sweatshirt and saw his urostomy bag that they asked any questions about his medical condition.
“One agent watched as the other used his flat hand to go slowly down my chest. I tried to warn him that he would hit the bag and break the seal on my bag, but he ignored me. Sure enough, the seal was broken and urine started dribbling down my shirt and my leg and into my pants.”
The security officer finished the pat-down, tested the gloves for any trace of explosives and then, Sawyer said, “He told me I could go. They never apologized. They never offered to help. They acted like they hadn’t seen what happened. But I know they saw it because I had a wet mark.”
Humiliated, upset and wet, Sawyer said he had to walk through the airport soaked in urine, board his plane and wait until after takeoff before he could clean up.
“I am totally appalled by the fact that agents that are performing these pat-downs have so little concern for people with medical conditions,” said Sawyer.
Sawyer completed his trip and had no problems with the security procedures at the Orlando International Airport on his journey back home. He said he plans to file a formal complaint with the TSA.
When he does, said TSA spokesperson Dwayne Baird, “We will review the matter and take appropriate action if necessary.” In the meantime, Baird encourages anyone with a medical condition to read the TSA’s website section on assistive devices and mobility aids.
The website says that travelers with disabilities and medical conditions have “the option of requesting a private screening” and that security officers “will not ask nor require you to remove your prosthetic device, cast, or support brace.”
Sawyer said he's written to his senators, state representatives and the president of the United States. He’s also shared details of the incident online with members of the nonprofit Bladder Cancer Advocacy Network, many of whom have offered support and shared their travel experiences.
“I am a good American and I want safety for all passengers as much as the next person," Sawyer said. "But if this country is going to sacrifice treating people like human beings in the name of safety, then we have already lost the war. "
Bladder Cancer Advocacy Network executive director Claire Saxton said that there are hundreds of thousands of people living with ostomies in the United States. “TSA agents need to be trained to listen when someone tells them have a health issue and trained in knowing what an ostomy is. No one living with an ostomy should be afraid of flying because they’re afraid of being humiliated at the checkpoint.”
Eric Lipp, executive director of Open Doors Association, which works with businesses and the disability community, called what happened to Sawyer “unfortunate.”
“But enhanced pat-downs are not a new issue for people with disabilities who travel," Lipp said. "They've always had trouble getting through the security checkpoint."
Still, Lipp said the TSA knows there’s a problem. “This came up during a recent meeting of the agency’s disability advisory board and I expect to see a procedure coming in place shortly that will directly address the pat-down procedures for people with disabilities.”
maycocksean
Rock n' Roll Doggie Band-aid
After reading the various arguments on this thread, I have to conclude that we are going about this all wrong.
I agree that we need to model our security on Israel's. The key is that it is WORKING, without the unnecessary delays and humiliation that our system has. There always be potential for abuse, racism etc no matter what system we have in place, but it seems clear that efficiency and safety should be able to go together.
I agree that we need to model our security on Israel's. The key is that it is WORKING, without the unnecessary delays and humiliation that our system has. There always be potential for abuse, racism etc no matter what system we have in place, but it seems clear that efficiency and safety should be able to go together.
deep
Blue Crack Addict
People with special circumstances, colostomy bags, etc should have an option of going to special private pre-screening room, where they can receive a pass with their picture on it.
Israel is a very small country where they lock up people with little or no evidence. Not all citizens of Israel enjoy equal protections. I would not expect them to model many of their practices after ours. I also think the number of people that are upset with the current situation, well there would be multiples of that number if we went to the Israeli procedures.
Israel is a very small country where they lock up people with little or no evidence. Not all citizens of Israel enjoy equal protections. I would not expect them to model many of their practices after ours. I also think the number of people that are upset with the current situation, well there would be multiples of that number if we went to the Israeli procedures.
This may sound good in theory but Israel's busiest airport is probably akin to a moderately busy American airport, nevermind something like LAX or JFK or O'Hare and especially nevermind the country as a whole. You simply cannot implement their procedures in a large country in a productive way.
On a side note, no business people I know will fly on El Al because of the constant delays and the onerous requirements to be at the airport extremely early. It just doesn't work outside of the Israeli setting. I certainly would go by way of ANY OTHER AIRLINE than them because I don't have 3-4 hours to squander at the airport in order to comply with their procedures. This is to say nothing of the fact that I don't care to submit to their type of questioning.
Sean, my point is that it is effective but contrary to your post it is anything but efficient, IMO.
deep
Blue Crack Addict
OP
OP
coolian2
Blue Crack Supplier
but doesn't it make you feel safer?
deep
Blue Crack Addict
there is a lot we don't know, looks like the kid was dressed in oversize baggy clothes
and he was (may have been) acting odd,
do we just want to wave kids in baggy clothes through?
and he was (may have been) acting odd,
do we just want to wave kids in baggy clothes through?
deep
Blue Crack Addict
this kid is packin'
yolland
Forum Moderator
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2004
- Messages
- 7,471
This objection does make sense, though I'd like to see a cost/efficiency-effectiveness comparison of the two systems from an expert source before siding with it. What further "enhancements" might TSA add in response to future plots or attacks? Anyhow, what I'm more wary of are arguments to the effect that we simply shouldn't change anything relative to "the way things used to be" on the grounds that becoming the victim of a terrorist attack is statistically less likely than [fill in the blank].
BVS
Blue Crack Supplier
These stories are disturbing. I still don't see anyway around the new scanners at this point but these pat downs are ridiculous and the stories just get worse every week.
Apparently there is a clause that airports can opt out of using TSA as their security and hire private firms. Some airports are looking into this already, for obvious reasons.
And of course the conspiracy theories have already started, saying that the new pat downs are designed to get TSA out of the screening business... but it will be interesting to see how the opt out works.
Apparently there is a clause that airports can opt out of using TSA as their security and hire private firms. Some airports are looking into this already, for obvious reasons.
And of course the conspiracy theories have already started, saying that the new pat downs are designed to get TSA out of the screening business... but it will be interesting to see how the opt out works.
PhilsFan
Blue Crack Addict
On the other hand, if you're looking for work, this might be a great field to get into.
this.
i really have to say, the more i hear about this thing and the more i hear horror stories of people who had to submit to way more searching than they should've, it makes me fearful of when i fly back to the states. all i can hope is by the time i do things will swing back in the other direction and they'll get rid of all this crap and find something better.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Some airports are opting out of the TSA and going for their own security-Sanford in Orlando is the latest one. If they're going to have these new procedures they need to allow for human circumstances and hire people who can have the necessary human sensitivities to deal with them. You can't have it both ways. The TSA is a cheaper stop gap measure that never should have been permanent.
I am not the most courageous person in the world, not by a long shot. I still got on a cross country flight two months after 9/11. But if women have to plan a leisure trip around their menstrual cycles because of anxiety over what could happen, the terrorists really have won. I really feel for breast cancer survivors and all people with those kinds of issues to deal with. You don't have to fly is NOT an answer, and it's insulting.
I saw a news story and it said that women wearing skirts are made to take them off and put on a gown to be searched. No way in hell would I do that. So just don't wear a skirt.
Hillary Clinton said on Face The Nation yesterday that she would not submit to these pat downs if she could avoid it-and I believe she also asked "who would".
I am not the most courageous person in the world, not by a long shot. I still got on a cross country flight two months after 9/11. But if women have to plan a leisure trip around their menstrual cycles because of anxiety over what could happen, the terrorists really have won. I really feel for breast cancer survivors and all people with those kinds of issues to deal with. You don't have to fly is NOT an answer, and it's insulting.
I saw a news story and it said that women wearing skirts are made to take them off and put on a gown to be searched. No way in hell would I do that. So just don't wear a skirt.
Hillary Clinton said on Face The Nation yesterday that she would not submit to these pat downs if she could avoid it-and I believe she also asked "who would".
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Yes, really
It made me feel very disturbed
Apparently we can't know the specific standard operating protocols because that would give the terrorists too much information. Every damn member of the TSA should know them down to the letter and should be following them down to the letter.
abcnews.com
The beleaguered head of the Transportation Security Administration said today that at least one airport passenger screening went too far when an officer reached inside a traveler's underwear, and the agency is open to rethinking its current protocols.
An ABC News employee said she was subject to a "demeaning" search at Newark Liberty International Airport Sunday morning.
"The woman who checked me reached her hands inside my underwear and felt her way around," she said. "It was basically worse than going to the gynecologist. It was embarrassing. It was demeaning. It was inappropriate."
That search was against protocols and "never" should have happened, TSA Administrator John Pistole told "Good Morning America" today.
"There should never be a situation where that happens," Pistole said. "The security officers are there to protect the traveling public. There are specific standard operating protocols which they are to follow."
Pistole, responding to complaints from passengers, has maintained that the TSA will not change its pat down procedures. But today he said the agency is "open" to changing security procedures.
"The bottom line is, we are always adapting and adjusting prior protocols in view of the intelligence and in view of the latest information we have on how the terrorists are trying to kill our people on planes," Pistole said. "If that means we need to adjust the procedures, then of course we're open to that."
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
Don't wear an underwire bra either-I already knew that as a tip but I saw a woman interviewed and she claims they made her lift up her shirt in a New Orleans airport and went up under her shirt and all over that area. She was told that it was the underwire bra that set off the scanner and made them also do a pat down.
Don't wear any jewelry, a watch, pants or shirts with metal. Travel naked might be a good tip-even with that there might be problems. They should have a nudist airline.
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/11/17/tsa-screenings-worry-sexual-assault-survivors.html
This comment really gets to me
THANK YOU FOR WRITING THIS!!! I am a rape survivor and one of my biggest stresses before flying to visit my boyfriend who lives 3000 miles away from me is having to deal with the TSA. I actually lose sleep over it. I hate the full body scanners and I go absolutely numb when I have to deal with it. I feel like there are so many of us survivors yet we have been left out when it comes to debating the TSA - I have PTSD because of what I have survived and the TSA says they accommodate disabilities yet, I don't see them accommodating me and my health. PTSD is no joke.
This one too
The only person who's ever seen me without clothing and touched me intimately is the person who violated me when I was 13. I can't even bring myself to go to a doctor for an exam because I can't stand the thought of being touched. I don't think I could make it through a TSA screening - either the scan or the pat down - and I don't plan to ever find out. I've not traveled since these procedures were put in place, and I don't plan on changing that any time soon.
Don't wear any jewelry, a watch, pants or shirts with metal. Travel naked might be a good tip-even with that there might be problems. They should have a nudist airline.
http://www.newsweek.com/2010/11/17/tsa-screenings-worry-sexual-assault-survivors.html
This comment really gets to me
THANK YOU FOR WRITING THIS!!! I am a rape survivor and one of my biggest stresses before flying to visit my boyfriend who lives 3000 miles away from me is having to deal with the TSA. I actually lose sleep over it. I hate the full body scanners and I go absolutely numb when I have to deal with it. I feel like there are so many of us survivors yet we have been left out when it comes to debating the TSA - I have PTSD because of what I have survived and the TSA says they accommodate disabilities yet, I don't see them accommodating me and my health. PTSD is no joke.
This one too
The only person who's ever seen me without clothing and touched me intimately is the person who violated me when I was 13. I can't even bring myself to go to a doctor for an exam because I can't stand the thought of being touched. I don't think I could make it through a TSA screening - either the scan or the pat down - and I don't plan to ever find out. I've not traveled since these procedures were put in place, and I don't plan on changing that any time soon.
The_Pac_Mule
Refugee
The thing with the kid taking off his shirt was overblown. His father had him do that to make things easier. At no point did they ask him to remove his clothing.
Also, an interesting article I read.
Also, an interesting article I read.
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
TSA Shirtless Boy | TSA Stril Searches Boy | Video | Mediaite
The parade of TSA horror stories continued this weekend, as a YouTube video featuring a young boy being patted down has gone viral, hitting the top spot on mega-aggregator The Drudge Report. In the cellphone clip, posted by college student Luke Tait, a shirtless young boy is being patted down by TSA agents, prompting Drudge to dub the video “Hands on Boy.”
The TSA has responded to the clip on their blog, and offered some facts that differed from the account posted on Tait’s YouTube account.
According to Tait, here’s what happened before the camera rolled:
Before the video started the boy went through a metal detector and didn’t set it off but was selected for a pat down. The boy was shy so the TSA couldn’t complete the full pat on the young boy. The father tried several times to just hold the boys arms out for the TSA agent but i guess it didn’t end up being enough for the guy. I was about 30 ft away so i couldn’t hear their conversation if there was any. The enraged father pulled his son shirt off and gave it to the TSA agent to search, thats when this video begins.
This morning, the TSA responded to the uproar on its blog:
On November 19, a family was traveling through a TSA checkpoint at the Salt Lake City International Airport (SLC). Their son alarmed the walk through metal detector and needed to undergo secondary screening. The boy’s father removed his son’s shirt in an effort to expedite the screening. After our TSO completed the screening, he helped the boy put his shirt back on. That’s it. No complaints were filed and the father was standing by his son for the entire procedure.
Aside from some subjective descriptors, the only difference between the two accounts is the fact that the child set off the metal detector. TSA’s account points out that “no complaints were filed,” but that obviously doesn’t mean no one complained. Whether the father was “enraged” or not, though, TSA is correct in pointing out that they did not ask for the boy’s shirt to be removed, and no TSA agent should.
The parade of TSA horror stories continued this weekend, as a YouTube video featuring a young boy being patted down has gone viral, hitting the top spot on mega-aggregator The Drudge Report. In the cellphone clip, posted by college student Luke Tait, a shirtless young boy is being patted down by TSA agents, prompting Drudge to dub the video “Hands on Boy.”
The TSA has responded to the clip on their blog, and offered some facts that differed from the account posted on Tait’s YouTube account.
According to Tait, here’s what happened before the camera rolled:
Before the video started the boy went through a metal detector and didn’t set it off but was selected for a pat down. The boy was shy so the TSA couldn’t complete the full pat on the young boy. The father tried several times to just hold the boys arms out for the TSA agent but i guess it didn’t end up being enough for the guy. I was about 30 ft away so i couldn’t hear their conversation if there was any. The enraged father pulled his son shirt off and gave it to the TSA agent to search, thats when this video begins.
This morning, the TSA responded to the uproar on its blog:
On November 19, a family was traveling through a TSA checkpoint at the Salt Lake City International Airport (SLC). Their son alarmed the walk through metal detector and needed to undergo secondary screening. The boy’s father removed his son’s shirt in an effort to expedite the screening. After our TSO completed the screening, he helped the boy put his shirt back on. That’s it. No complaints were filed and the father was standing by his son for the entire procedure.
Aside from some subjective descriptors, the only difference between the two accounts is the fact that the child set off the metal detector. TSA’s account points out that “no complaints were filed,” but that obviously doesn’t mean no one complained. Whether the father was “enraged” or not, though, TSA is correct in pointing out that they did not ask for the boy’s shirt to be removed, and no TSA agent should.
deep
Blue Crack Addict
and here we go
Al Qaeda magazine: Printer bombs designed to bleed U.S. economy
interesting claim, I don't buy
but these lowlifes will hand off the football to gullible parties,
that will take it and run straight into the terrorists' end zone.
Al Qaeda magazine: Printer bombs designed to bleed U.S. economy
interesting claim, I don't buy
but these lowlifes will hand off the football to gullible parties,
that will take it and run straight into the terrorists' end zone.
OP
OP
coolian2
Blue Crack Supplier
it isn't designed to make the economy or people bleed. it was designed to do exactly what it achieved - scare the fuck out of people and ruin their everyday lives.
deep
Blue Crack Addict
that pretty much is the description of terrorism, if you add for a political objective
MrsSpringsteen
Blue Crack Addict
The full body scanners they're using now fare poorly against low density materials like liquids, gels, and thin plastics. The GAO admitted in March that it "isn't clear" that the scanner would have even detected the underwear bomber's device. For bombs and such I think isn't clear most likely means no.
OP
OP
coolian2
Blue Crack Supplier
doesn't need to be a political objective, for that matter.
i stand by my near year old thread title.
Canadiens1131
ONE love, blood, life
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2004
- Messages
- 10,363
The CEO of this company joined Obams on his big business-rustlin' trip:
OSI Systems, Inc. - OSI Systems Chief Executive Officer Joins US Presidential Visit to India
That company owns this company:
Metal Detectors, Baggage and Parcel Inspection, Cargo and Vehicle Inspection, Hold Baggage Screening, People Screening, X-ray Security, Gamma-ray Security, Backscatter, Security Solutions
This is why I am amazed when idiots on the right try and paint Obama as some kind of nuts left-wing wackjob. He's quite the opposite - much too far entrenched in the establishment for his own good.
I wonder if Mr. Obama would have a problem with his daughters' genitals being touched by a TSA agent?
OSI Systems, Inc. - OSI Systems Chief Executive Officer Joins US Presidential Visit to India
That company owns this company:
Metal Detectors, Baggage and Parcel Inspection, Cargo and Vehicle Inspection, Hold Baggage Screening, People Screening, X-ray Security, Gamma-ray Security, Backscatter, Security Solutions
This is why I am amazed when idiots on the right try and paint Obama as some kind of nuts left-wing wackjob. He's quite the opposite - much too far entrenched in the establishment for his own good.
I wonder if Mr. Obama would have a problem with his daughters' genitals being touched by a TSA agent?
corianderstem
Blue Crack Distributor
All this talk has me now convinced that I'd much rather go through the scanner.
I'd rather risk the radiation or a faceless picture getting into someone's hands than risk a humiliating, shocking experience.
Seriously.
I'd rather risk the radiation or a faceless picture getting into someone's hands than risk a humiliating, shocking experience.
Seriously.
Butterscotch
War Child
- Joined
- Nov 1, 2006
- Messages
- 716
The whole thing is pointless because anyone who had a bomb would not just stand in line and wait to get scanned, he'd run, hide. So if anyone is standing there waiting to go through they do not have a bomb so why humiliate them?
I know they don't want to profile anyone but it really seems ridiculous to waste so much time and money and put so many people through such trouble when they know damn well from looking at a lot of people they are not a terrorist- take an old person or a family with little kids. So what happens is that everone is inconvenienced because they do not want to offend a very small portion of the flying public.
I know they don't want to profile anyone but it really seems ridiculous to waste so much time and money and put so many people through such trouble when they know damn well from looking at a lot of people they are not a terrorist- take an old person or a family with little kids. So what happens is that everone is inconvenienced because they do not want to offend a very small portion of the flying public.
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