so, the terrorists win...

[corianderstem]

Ha, Vintage 73s. I like that.

Now I want to get a pat down and burst into song - "T-t-t-t-t-TOUCH ME! I want to feel dirty!"

[hiphop]

Originally Posted by corianderstem

Ha, Vintage 73s. I like that.

Now I want to get a pat down and burst into song - "T-t-t-t-t-TOUCH ME! I want to feel dirty!"

lovely! unconventional conventionalists on fym

howdy @ riff raff, the terrorist, lurking around on american airports - you bet he wants to steal fuel to go back to transsylvania!

[deep]

Originally Posted by Canadiens1131

Yeah I'm going to take the in-public pat-down option next time I am unfortunate enough to fly, just to see what it's like.

Plus I've never had someone on probation (most TSA employees?) fulfilling his work requirement by touching my balls before.

I going to take the scanner

I can't wait for them to ask me about my cock ring.

[deep]

On a serious note,
I do remember flying in the 80s and 90s before 911,
how relaxed it was, few if any scanners, people carried folding knives on planes, etc.

I hated taking my shoes off, now I just prepare for it and because I expect it and I have gotten used to it.
It does not bother me as much. the 4 ounce liquid limit is still irritating.

I am trying to plan around it. also I no longer fly short hops. L A to Bay area, I will rent a car and drive.

[deep]

I think this latest public reaction is ill-advised

The terrorist threat to commercial passenger aircraft remains a clear and present danger. Would-be suicide bombers like Umar Abdulmutallab, who attempted to bring down Northwest Flight 253 over Michigan on Christmas Day 2009 with a bomb in his underwear, worry Department of Homeland Security (DHS) officials greatly. The classified-intelligence reports they read every day only heighten their concerns. They’re the reasons full-body scanners have been installed at airports across the country, even though some experts question their usefulness

Read more: TSA screeners have their hands full | The Daily Caller - Breaking News, Opinion, Research, and Entertainment

If someone smuggles an underpants bomb aboard and takes a plane down, people will be outraged that more was not done to prevent it.


We still are only about at about 20% of what the Israelis do at their airports.
Let's hope successful attacks don't take us to those measures.

[MrsSpringsteen]

You have to love how Napolitano said that people can just not fly. Well duh, of course-but that's not really addressing the issue or being responsive to peoples' concerns. Sometimes it's the only way to get where we want to go-especially since we can't yet walk on water or swim great distances.

National Opt-Out Day Called Against Invasive Body Scanners | Threat Level | Wired.com

Air travelers, mark your calendar. An activist opposed to the new invasive body scanners in use at airports around the country just designated Wednesday, Nov. 24 as a National Opt-Out Day. He’s encouraging airline passengers to decline the TSA’s technological strip searches en masse on that day as a protest against the scanners, as well as the new “enhanced pat-downs” inflicted on refuseniks.

“The goal of National Opt-Out Day is to send a message to our lawmakers that we demand change,” reads the call to action at OptOutDay.com, set up by Brian Sodegren. “No naked body scanners, no government-approved groping. We have a right to privacy, and buying a plane ticket should not mean that we’re guilty until proven innocent.”

Some travel writers have expressed concern that the protest, called for the busiest air-travel day of the year, could cause backups and delays for all travelers.

The planned protest taps a growing unease over the full-body scans. Privacy groups such as the Electronic Privacy Information Center are seeking a court order to halt the use of invasive scanners, saying the scanners are illegal and violate passenger privacy.

They also say the government has done little to ensure that images taken by the devices are not saved. The TSA has asserted that the machines cannot store pictures, but security personnel at a courthouse in Florida were found to not only have saved images but shared them among colleagues in order to humiliate one of their co-workers.

Scientists have also expressed concern that radiation from the devices could have long-term health effects on travelers.

Although passengers have the right to opt out of going through a scanner, the Transportation Security Administration recently announced that passengers who opt out of body scanners at airport security checkpoints would be required to undergo an enhanced physical pat-down that would include agents using open hands and fingers to touch and press chest and groin areas of passengers. In the past, agents were instructed to use the backs of their hands for pat-downs.

Sodegren, who declined to be interviewed in the wake of growing publicity about his movement, wrote on the site that, “You should never have to explain to your children, ‘Remember that no stranger can touch or see your private area, unless it’s a government employee, then it’s OK.’”

The U.S. Airline Pilots Association and other pilot groups have urged their members to avoid the scanners and have also condemned the new pat-down policy as humiliating to pilots. They’ve advised pilots who don’t feel comfortable undergoing pat-downs in front of passengers to request they be conducted in a private room. Any pilots who don’t feel comfortable after undergoing a pat-down have been encouraged to “call in sick and remove themselves from the trip.”

Travel writer Carl Unger expressed concern that the timing of the boycott could affect already frazzled passengers who are trying to reach their Thanksgiving destinations.

“Chaos makes great news, sure, and news makes great exposure for a cause such as this,” he wrote at Smarter Travelbut I wonder if throwing a wrench into people’s holiday travels is the best way to win hearts and minds.”

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano was set to meet with executives from the travel industry on Friday to discuss concerns that security is having a detrimental effect on travel, according to Reuters.

“We have received hundreds of e-mails and phone calls from travelers vowing to stop flying,” Geoff Freeman, an executive vice president of the U.S. Travel Association, told the news agency.

[BVS]

So what is the alternative?

It's funny I heard conservatives a few years ago talk about how we just need a full body scan like that of Total Recall, those same folks are speaking out against it because it happened under a left wing Kenyan President.

Did we feel safer taking off our shoes?

What options do we have?

[martha]

Perhaps a long term solution: Re-evaluating our foreign policy.

[martha]

Originally Posted by MrsSpringsteen

You have to love how Napolitano said that people can just not fly.

As I've said before: What else will I have to give up simply because I want to retain whatever Constitutional rights I have left?

[BVS]

Originally Posted by martha

Perhaps a long term solution: Re-evaluating our foreign policy.

Well I definitely think that's a big part, but do we not need other short term plans?

[corianderstem]

Oh yeah, we should all just not fly, so the airlines go deeper into financial trouble because no one is flying, so they jack up rates again, and workers go on strike because they can't get paid enough, wash, rinse, repeat.

Aces.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

national opt-out day on the day before thanksgiving... gee, thanks for making everyone's travels so much easier douchebags.


the right to fly is not covered by the constitution. nobody's rights are being infringed. they're not coming to your house and grabbing your balls.

also, the fear of radiation is a tad silly... especially with this ass "don't touch my junk" guy, who's junk gets irradiated by the very cell phone that he took the video with every day. his sperm has been getting nuked for years, but hey... he's got apps. we are exposed to more radiation on a daily basis than we ever will be going through the backscatter. i hope this person puts up the same sorta stink when he goes to the dentist.

i can understand businesspeople who travel multiple times a day not wanting to be constantly subjected to it, but the occasional traveler going on vacation? please... gimmie a break. you sit everyday with a remote control, a smart phone in your pocket, your iPad in your hands and your wifi router under the couch, yet going through this thing once a year is just going to cause tumors to start popping up all over your body.


everybody seems to want to be protected, but without the actual, ya know, protection going on.


and any politician who was onboard for post-9/11 bush era policies, i.e. the patriot act, random searches at trains and subways, waterboarding, etc. etc. etc. etc. who are now speaking out against this should be fucking ashamed of themselves, and frankly need a healthy douse of electroshock therapy.

[corianderstem]

How exactly does this make us safer? Have the TSA ever foiled a terrorist attempt by doing these measures? I could shove something up my ass and it wouldn't be seen by the scanner or the pat down.

The people who want to try and blow up a plane will keep coming up with new creative ways to get that shit on the plane.

I'm not as concerned with the whole radation thing. I'm just not comfortable with someone taking a digital sort-of-kind-of nude picture of me or having some stranger who's basically a glorified mall cop touching me under the guise of "safety."

[Headache in a Suitcase]

and if we do nothing and something happens, we'll all get our panties in the bunch about how we didn't do enough. like 9/11. and then we'll do enough, and we'll all get our panties in the bunch about how it's too much. like this.

exactly what constitutional right is being violated by these measures?

[corianderstem]

I haven't said anything about the constitution, so I'll let someone else tackle that one.

I just think the terrorists are going to be one step ahead of the TSA. No more liquids? Fine, they'll think of something else. Body searches? Great, they'll think of something else.

People are going to get their panties in a bunch no matter what we do, or what happens.

I'm not saying I know what they should be doing, I just know this doesn't feel right to me, it makes me uncomfortable, and based on what I've read, it's not going to do anything but piss people off in a multitude of ways.

[Headache in a Suitcase]

Originally Posted by corianderstem

I haven't said anything about the constitution, so I'll let someone else tackle that one.

I just think the terrorists are going to be one step ahead of the TSA. No more liquids? Fine, they'll think of something else. Body searches? Great, they'll think of something else.

People are going to get their panties in a bunch no matter what we do, or what happens.

I'm not saying I know what they should be doing, I just know this doesn't feel right to me, it makes me uncomfortable, and based on what I've read, it's not going to do anything but piss people off in a multitude of ways.

okay... yes, there is a group of people out there who want to kill westerners. if we cut off one way of them doing it, they will try to find another way.


frankly i'm most annoyed by this "don't touch my junk" glory whore who obviously had a plan in mind when he started recording his encounter. i wonder how much gawker payed him for his story.

[MrsSpringsteen]

Originally Posted by corianderstem

How exactly does this make us safer? Have the TSA ever foiled a terrorist attempt by doing these measures? I could shove something up my ass and it wouldn't be seen by the scanner or the pat down.

The people who want to try and blow up a plane will keep coming up with new creative ways to get that shit on the plane.

They will always be trying to find ways around it. There is already talk about body cavity bombs and breast implant bombs. So what are they going to do, do body cavity searches on everyone or use CT scans or MRIs? So from that point of view it is a false sense of security.

I've said before long ago in this thread that I have no problem going into that scanner, that I would much rather do that than be blown to bits on an airplane. But I do think that I have the right to be treated like a human being and in a professional manner and with dignity. And that every American citizen does too. No offense to anyone here who works for the TSA, but if you do enough reading about it or have certain experiences, well..I am always completely cooperative but sometimes, even with that being the case, they don't always behave in a professional way. Nor are they the most highly trained professional security force-not by a long shot. How many times have they been tested and failed to find the most glaring security violations? So I'm not so sure they could find the most obvious thing in anyone's junk either-no matter how much they dig around in there.

I have no problem with people with kids being concerned about the touching issue-or people who have been victims of sexual violations or assaults.

[BVS]

Originally Posted by corianderstem

I just think the terrorists are going to be one step ahead of the TSA. No more liquids? Fine, they'll think of something else. Body searches? Great, they'll think of something else.

Unfortunately this is the game of security. Reactive and proactive measures.

I think what infuriates me the most is one; those that are making the loudest noise don't have an alternative plan, and two; many of those that are making the loudest noise were the ones that praised the patriot act and called for more and more security.

[corianderstem]

One Hundred Naked Citizens: One Hundred Leaked Body Scans

So these are pretty blurry. But that's an older model. And the point is that the TSA was all "no, we can't save these, don't worry!"

And then it was all "Okay, we can save them for, but for just a short period of time."

What's it now? "Oops, our bad."

Yeah, you can't identify the person, but that's kind of beside the point. Why should we believe anything the TSA tells us these days?

[MrsSpringsteen]

Originally Posted by corianderstem

One Hundred Naked Citizens: One Hundred Leaked Body Scans

So these are pretty blurry. But that's an older model. And the point is that the TSA was all "no, we can't save these, don't worry!"

And then it was all "Okay, we can save them for, but for just a short period of time."

What's it now? "Oops, our bad."

Yeah, you can't identify the person, but that's kind of beside the point. Why should we believe anything the TSA tells us these days?

I agree, that is an issue that directly affects their credibility. And when there are stories about TSA using coworker scans to humiliate co workers, well you have to wonder what else goes on. That was Marshals in a courthouse but who is to say that the same can't happen with airport machines?

If the next terrorist scheme involves body cavity bombs, and there is hypothetically some way to do it without crippling air travel, how many people here would be willing to submit to body cavity searches? Where does it end? Valid question I think.