so, the terrorists win...

[BVS]

The whole thing is pointless because anyone who had a bomb would not just stand in line and wait to get scanned, he'd run, hide. So if anyone is standing there waiting to go through they do not have a bomb so why humiliate them?

I know they don't want to profile anyone but it really seems ridiculous to waste so much time and money and put so many people through such trouble when they know damn well from looking at a lot of people they are not a terrorist- take an old person or a family with little kids. So what happens is that everone is inconvenienced because they do not want to offend a very small portion of the flying public.

Well obviously your first premise is wrong since terrorist have made it through previous screening tests.

And what makes you think you know what a terrorist looks like? What makes you think a terrorist can't blackmail someone in to bringing something on, or sneak something on to them?

 

[deep]

Terrorists Have Discussed Use of Prosthetics to Conceal Explosives

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

Well obviously your first premise is wrong since terrorist have made it through previous screening tests.

And what makes you think you know what a terrorist looks like? What makes you think a terrorist can't blackmail someone in to bringing something on, or sneak something on to them?

exactly. plus if said terrorist really did get nervous/worried about his bomb being discovered, he'd probably be more likely to detonate there in security rather than just hide or leave.

 

[Butterscotch]

And what makes you think you know what a terrorist looks like?

Well uuuuh let's just say an old couple from Elmira, NY in Hawaiian shirts or a nurse traveling with little kids from Savannah isn't going to be a terrorist, sorry. Even if you can't target people due to political correctness you can rule out those who are really a waste of time.

What makes you think a terrorist can't blackmail someone in to bringing something on, or sneak something on to them?

Blackmail somebody to carry a suicide bomb?! For real? Come on, what good would the money do them? Okay, whatever, I'm done here too.

 

[BVS]

Well uuuuh let's just say an old couple from Elmira, NY in Hawaiian shirts or a nurse traveling with little kids from Savannah isn't going to be a terrorist, sorry. Even if you can't target people due to political correctness you can rule out those who are really a waste of time.

So age and clothing is the way you can tell if someone is a terrorist or have had something snuck on their body? This short sightedness will surely get you killed.

Blackmail somebody to carry a suicide bomb?! For real? Come on, what good would the money do them? Okay, whatever, I'm done here too.

Who said anything about a suicide bomb? It could be a weapon for another flight. And it doesn't have to be about money, someone's family could be held until the task is done. You have to be capable of thinking outside the box, they surely are.

 

[KhanadaRhodes]

Who said anything about a suicide bomb? It could be a weapon for another flight. And it doesn't have to be about money, someone's family could be held until the task is done. You have to be capable of thinking outside the box, they surely are.

exactly. you tell a father travelling for business that his wife and children are being held captive, or have a gunman outside their house or something waiting for the call to kill them. they never have to know any of this if he just delivers the package, so to speak. even if it isn't true, would someone really take that risk?

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Terrorists Have Discussed Use of Prosthetics to Conceal Explosives

True-but that still does not excuse the fact that some TSA agents do not seem to be displaying the proper sensitivity to people who have those devices.

Eight hours of training-that's what they allegedly receive for doing the pat downs and for dealing with medical conditions, prosthetics, children, and any and all possible unique scenarios and for just basic human decency and sensitivity. McDonalds probably gives more than eight hours of training for working there.

 

[kramwest1]

I asked to be patted-down last week before my flight from MSP to ORD.
It was fine, the guy was gentle enough, and nobody gawked as I stood there out in the open.
Now mind you, I am a person who doesn't care a lick about modesty. I don't have any medical issues that I am concerned about or that would set off any alarms or call for more screening. I am very sympathetic to the cancer survivor that had to show her prosthetic breast and such.
But, this is the new normal. I often was patted-down just after 9/11 when they were doing the random screenings at the gate. There isn't much different between the old "backs of hands" body searching and the new full-hand method. Sure, some TSA people are going to far, but this is a great story for the media to run with.

We have to get used to this type of screening. I am comfortable with that as long as I know that they are screening the cargo thoroughly, too--which I'm not certain they are.

 

[deep]

I requested the pat down with the happy ending.

 

[Butterscotch]

I am comfortable with that as long as I know that they are screening the cargo thoroughly, too--which I'm not certain they are.

I was thinking that would be next, once they know they can't hide it on their bodies they'll get more adept at hiding it in stuff. Once it comes out explosives have been cleverly concealed in ordinary clothing items in a few suitcases you'll have to sit and wait while every single item you packed for your trip is searched. When that happens, you might as well drive because any time you save from flying across country will be lost. This has to end somewhere.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Mike Huckabee made this suggestion on his radio show and then echoed it on Fox & Friends:

“If he thinks this is an appropriate way for us to deal with security as he has defended, then I’ve said, ‘OK, Mr. Obama, take your wife, your two daughters and your mother-in-law to Washington Reagan National Airport and have them publicly go through both the body scanner and the full enhanced pat-down in front of others. And if it’s OK for your wife, your daughters, and your mother-in-law, then maybe the rest of us won’t feel so bad when our wives, our daughters and our mothers are being put through this humiliating and degrading, totally unconstitutional, intrusion of their privacy."

Of course if Bush had implemented the same procedures where would the Republican outcry be? They say Obama is soft on terrorism so if it wasn't happening they'd be saying that was the reason. But why not just use it as a political football, of course.

 

[deep]

and be sure and bring a picture i d and your real birth certificate.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Passenger Chooses Strip-Down Over Pat-Down | NBC San Diego

When a San Diego man opted out of security screening using the Advanced Imaging Technology (AIT) at Lindbergh Field Friday, he stripped down to his underwear in an attempt to avoid the pat-down procedures.

Samuel Wolanyk took the protest started Nov. 13 by Oceanside's John Tyner to a whole new level.

While Tyner videotaped his refusal to be patted down, telling the agent "If you touch my junk, I'll have you arrested," Wolanyk decided to give TSA a look at his body down to his Calvin Klein's.

Through a statement released by his attorney Sunday night, Wolanyk said "TSA needs to see that I'm not carrying any weapons, explosives, or other prohibited substances, I refuse to have images of my naked body viewed by perfect strangers, and having been felt up for the first time by TSA the week prior (I travel frequently) I was not willing to be molested again."

Wolanyk's attorney said that TSA requested his client put his clothes on so he could be patted down properly but his client refused to put his clothes back on. He never refused a pat down, according to his attorney.

Wolanyk was arrested for refusing to complete the security process. A woman, identified by Harbor police as Danielle Kelli Hayman,39, of San Diego was detained for recording the incident on a phone.

 

[coolian2]

Wolanyk was arrested for refusing to complete the security process. A woman, identified by Harbor police as Danielle Kelli Hayman,39, of San Diego was detained for recording the incident on a phone.

for fuck's sake

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Even if he was standing there in nothing but his underwear I guess they still would have to touch in whatever junk-related areas that they do so that's why he got in trouble..because apparently they would not do that when he just had underwear on. If they have no problem putting hands down pants or up under a woman's shirt then what's the problem? They have gloves on so it wouldn't be germs.

I guess it would be too humiliating for them. Well if you're going to tell people you don't have to fly then they don't have to work there. Right? Same goes for their complaints about what some passengers are saying to them. I'm not supporting or defending those comments-but they don't have to work there.. if you're going to logically follow their argument.

 

[MrsSpringsteen]

Can you imagine using a city subway system with everyone having to go through a scanner or a pat down?

thehill.com

Next step for body scanners could be trains, boats, metro
By Jordy Yager - 11/23/10 02:09 PM ET

The next step in tightened security could be on U.S. public transportation, trains and boats.

Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano says terrorists will continue to look for U.S. vulnerabilities, making tighter security standards necessary.

“[Terrorists] are going to continue to probe the system and try to find a way through,” Napolitano said in an interview that aired Monday night on "Charlie Rose."

“I think the tighter we get on aviation, we have to also be thinking now about going on to mass transit or to trains or maritime. So, what do we need to be doing to strengthen our protections there?”

Napolitano’s comments, made a day before one of the nation’s busiest travel days, come in the wake of a public outcry over newly implemented airport screening measures that have been criticized for being too invasive.

The secretary has defended the new screening methods, which include advanced imaging systems and pat-downs, as necessary to stopping terrorists. During the interview with Rose, Napolitano said her agency is now looking into ways to make other popular means of travel safer for passengers and commuters.

Napolitano isn’t the only one who’s suggested that advanced scanning machines could be used in places beyond airports.

Sen. Joe Lieberman (I-Conn.), chairman of the Senate Homeland Security Committee, introduced legislation this past September that would authorize testing of body scanners at some federal buildings.

Napolitano’s comments were in response to the question: “What will they [terrorists] be thinking in the future?” She gave no details about how soon the public could see changes in security or about what additional safety measures the DHS was entertaining.

 

[indra]

Can you imagine using a city subway system with everyone having to go through a scanner or a pat down?

Hey, every day could be No Pants Day!

link

 

[AliEnvy]

Police State USA: TSA Gestapo Empire

TSA is a far greater threat to Americans than are terrorists. Pistole has given the finger to US senators and representatives, state legislators, and the traveling public who have expressed their views that virtual strip searches and sexual molestation are too high a price to pay for “security.” Indeed, the TSA with its Gestapo attitude and methods, is succeeding in making Americans more terrified of the TSA than they are of terrorists.

Make up your own mind. What terrifies you the most. Terrorists, who in all likelihood you will never encounter in your lifetime, or the TSA that you will encounter every time you fly and soon, according to Pistole, every time you take a train, a subway, or drive in a car or truck?

Before making up your mind, consider this report from antiwar.com on November 19: “TSA officials say that anyone refusing both the full body scanners and the enhanced pat down procedures will be taken into custody. Once there the detainees will not only be barred from flying, but will be held indefinitely as suspected terrorists . . . One sheriff’s office said they were already preparing to handle a large number of detainees and plan to treat them as terror suspects.”

Who is cowing Americans into submission, terrorists or the TSA Gestapo?

 

[yolland]

Oh please. What's the murderously sinister end towards which TSA are sticking their hands down our pants and up our shirts? No need to make a wrongheaded public safety procedure worse than it already is.

 

[coolian2]

Who is cowing Americans into submission, terrorists or the TSA Gestapo?

the terrorists, with a big helping hand from the tsa. shades of grey.

 

[trojanchick99]

Can you imagine using a city subway system with everyone having to go through a scanner or a pat down?

As someone who takes the subway to work daily, I'd feel safer if people had to go through some sort of scanner, even just a plain metal detector. There is an appalling lack of security in LA for the subway.

 

[deep]

YouTube - TSA Speedo Protester


I don't think ^ '"Jimmy" and the 'Don't touch my junk" guy should be put on the no-fly list.

I do think they should be put on the 'watch list' and anyone else that interferes with government agents trying to keep the public safer than we have been in the past.

When ever they fly their carry on luggage should be checked more thoroughly.

At the least they are attention seeking whores, at worst they are anti -government haters in the direction of a Tim McVeigh.

 

[martha]

We have to get used to this type of screening.

Why?

Mike Huckabee made this suggestion on his radio show and then echoed it on Fox & Friends:

“If he thinks this is an appropriate way for us to deal with security as he has defended, then I’ve said, ‘OK, Mr. Obama, take your wife, your two daughters and your mother-in-law to Washington Reagan National Airport and have them publicly go through both the body scanner and the full enhanced pat-down in front of others. And if it’s OK for your wife, your daughters, and your mother-in-law, then maybe the rest of us won’t feel so bad when our wives, our daughters and our mothers are being put through this humiliating and degrading, totally unconstitutional, intrusion of their privacy."

Of course if Bush had implemented the same procedures where would the Republican outcry be? They say Obama is soft on terrorism so if it wasn't happening they'd be saying that was the reason. But why not just use it as a political football, of course.

God, I hate those people with all the hate I can muster from the pit of my soul. They are liars and hypocrites and they're doing it all for money. How much did they all crow about the fucking "Patriot Act" when they had their own idiot in the White House? They all suck.

/rant

 

[maycocksean]

We flew today, and I got BOTH the full body scan AND the pat-down. I'm used to the metal detectors which never pick up my wallet, so I've gotten out of the habit of removing it. The scanner picked up my watch and wallet. The TSA agent patted my arm and buttocks presumably because those were the areas "in question."

To be honest, it wasn't a big deal to me. The agent was quite professional and I didn't feel in any way uncomfortable or violated.

My feeling is there are probably some bad agents that give the rest a bad name by handling these things in an inappropriate and unprofessional manner. There are probably a handful of difficult passengers that are making the news too. I do have to admit though that for a pilot or flight attendant this could be problematic. It's one thing to deal with this two or three times a year--daily, I could see being more difficult especially odds they are more likely to encounter the bad seed TSA people just by virtue of more contact.

 

[anitram]

Terrorist haven in Canada!!

OTTAWA—Canadian airport screeners have no plans to introduce the kind of “provocative” pat-downs that have sparked protests and riled passengers at airports across the United States, Transport Minister Chuck Strahl says.

“Canadians obviously have a right to expect to be treated properly and respectfully at airports,” Strahl told reporters Wednesday.

“While the Americans have instituted a more intensive ... pat-down technique, that's not happening in Canada. ... They have no intention of doing that,” he said in the House of Commons' foyer.

 

[martha]

Freaking Socialist/Fascist terrorist-lovers.

 

[yolland]

On an amusing-if-predictable note,

Major airports in New York, North Carolina and Las Vegas are rejecting a proposed ad campaign from PETA that makes light of the new full-body scanners being used at airport security checkpoints. The ads from People for the Ethical Treatment of Animals features a scan of a curvaceous woman in lacy underwear with the message: "Be Proud of Your Body Scan: Go Vegan."

 

[martha]

lol

 

[kramwest1]

We have to get used to this type of screening.

Why?

Mainly because security measure never scale backward.


I was talking about this stuff yesterday with my family, and I came up with the realization that we need a strong, former military president to be elected soon (maybe 2016) to stand up and say, "ENOUGH! We will no longer live as scared Americans. We will not waste more time and money in fear of these zealots. Americans WILL die. Terrorists occasionally will succeed, but it will not end America as we know it. We are stronger than that. We are stronger than them because we are a free and open society. We are not going to cower and hide anymore."

I say former military because they probably would be the only person with the credibility and believability that the American people would trust.

Bush made his presidency about telling the American people to be afraid.
Obama is being skewered by the Right for continuing essentially the same security policies of the Bush admin.

We could use someone who will call "Bullshit" and put an end to this terrorism hysteria. The vast majority of Americans only have been directly affected by terrorism in their pocketbooks, whether they realize it or not. Americans' psyches have been affected by terrorism by their shitty media and political leaders.

 

[martha]

Mainly because security measure never scale backward.

I understand that, but I still refuse to roll over while my Constitution means less and less as each year goes by.